Bell County

[Ensnared]

50 OR 5 Plus

For fun, I thought I would start to convert the DEC by adding 50 to it and load it into my 436HP. After making some tables, I noticed, what about the EDACS DB. I submitted the PV TG for Temple Dispatch, 09-041, with a DEC of 1185. Instead of adding 50, I added 5 and came up with the TG identified as Temple Dispatch on the new P25 system, verified.

However, the other question needs to be discussed. What about the Temple Dispatch analog TG of 02-021, with a DEC of 273. Adding 50 to this number would not correspond with the verfied Temple TG of 51185 listed above.

To test another question, I went into Sentinel and looked at the various PV talk groups I have loaded. As I indicated, I previously submitted the "D" TGs for Temple PD. When I viewed the AFS format of 09-41 by switching to decimel. Guess what I found, 1185. So, I would contend that PV talk groups need to have a "5" inserted. Hence, I also discovered the reverse of the aforementioned CW eye of 08-103, 1107 would be the decimal. If I add 5 to this, I might be surprised! It would be 51107. This TG does not go off very often, so don't be too impatient. I have assigned this talk group with the most annoying, tone seven on my 436HP. The analog version on RR might be interesting to review. The adding 50 might be specific to EDACS analog groups, eh?

That is it. For analog, add 50 to 3 digit DEC, for PV, convert AFS to DEC, add 5. I tested several talk groups and this seems to track. Cool~

 

[Ensnared]

Done

I went through the EDACS system and converted the system to P25 by: 1) adding 50, to analog talk groups; 1) by turning PV talk groups I had not submitted into decimals within the Sentinel software, for adding 5 to the front of the decimal later; 3) by adding a 5, 50 or 500 to the talk group, 5 being used for four digit DEC.

When I fired this boy up, bang, it came alive.

A special thanks goes out to all that helped. There is some fine tuning and new talk groups I'm finding, but these can be added later.

I guess I will submit this according to this method.

 

[Ensnared]

Secret Pal

Let me ask for guidance since I suspect I have someone's ear within this thread. There was mention of this being a Harris Simulcast or something like that. If so, where would I look for the other site? I've already identified that the method of finding groups through adding digits to the DEC and heard many of these, but today, the system was rather inactive during the morning hours. I left Morgan's Point around 12:30. It sounded unusually quiet today. I heard KPD Dispatch when I got to Bruceville-Eddy. Wow, what a strong signal. I double checked the talk groups against what was previously identified from EDACS. Can anyone tell me if there is anything I missed? I have changed my 436HP to read ID on the display for more detail. I know that there is a likelihood, during the installation process, for there to be more than one CC/AC show up. So, I checked my PSR 500 and heard a strong signal on the previously-identified CC.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Let me ask for guidance since I suspect I have someone's ear within this thread. There was mention of this being a Harris Simulcast or something like that. If so, where would I look for the other site?

With simulcast, all sites use the exact same frequencies. So the easiest way to find them is once you know the CC/AC, perform an FCC ULS Geosearch to look for the sites. They may all be under the same FCC license (just look under locations) or they may be held across several licenses.

Just to be sure though, you can use a control channel decoder such as Pro96Com or Unitrunker and it will tell you the control channel, alternates, adjacent sites (which if you don't see any it would suggest simulcast) as well as other things.

 

[nd5y]

Looks like there are four sites.
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?fccCallsign=WPML266

 

[Ensnared]

Sites

With simulcast, all sites use the exact same frequencies. So the easiest way to find them is once you know the CC/AC, perform an FCC ULS Geosearch to look for the sites. They may all be under the same FCC license (just look under locations) or they may be held across several licenses.

Just to be sure though, you can use a control channel decoder such as Pro96Com or Unitrunker and it will tell you the control channel, alternates, adjacent sites (which if you don't see any it would suggest simulcast) as well as other things.

Tomorrow, I am going to setup the decoding with my 436HP. I cannot get the damn thing to decode on my PSR 500. I don't know how to use my 436HP with Unitrunker. I am trying very hard. I don't know why this is so difficult to decode.

When I looked at the instructions for both decoding systems, it seems as though the instructions are a bit dated. Which decoding works best for these two radios, or both work equally? I don't know how to use a discriminator tap because I'm an idiot in matters such as these.

Are you the person I encountered at the French Quarter and offered to help with my 3.5 mm stereo jack?

At present, the system is down & they are back to EDACS.

 

[nd5y]

Some scanners have a data output that Unitrunker can use without modifications but the 436HP isn't one of them. To use it, and most other scanners, Unitrunker requires unfiltered baseband discriminator audio. That reqires making modifications to the circuit board (discriminator tap).

Idiot or not, if you're not skilled at electronics soldering on pc boards with surface mount components and don't have the proper equipment then it's probably not a good idea to learn how on something expensive and risk damaging it.

 

[Ensnared]

PSR 500?

Some scanners have a data output that Unitrunker can use without modifications but the 436HP isn't one of them. To use it, and most other scanners, Unitrunker requires unfiltered baseband discriminator audio. That reqires making modifications to the circuit board (discriminator tap).

Idiot or not, if you're not skilled at electronics soldering on pc boards with surface mount components and don't have the proper equipment then it's probably not a good idea to learn how on something expensive and risk damaging it.

The one and only radio I've used with decoding has been the PSR 500. From my understanding, I don't have to tap his one. I can use the programming cord. When I've hooked my PSR 500 to Pro96.com, the Waco P25 and even Woodway P25 trunking showed everything; however, I do recall the radio parameters being changed during installation with the system going up and down. I suppose this is common.

So, in light of this, I will first learn how to operate Pro96.com using a familiar system, already established, Waco P25. I don't recall if the information came out regarding the site and radio parameters during my Woodway analysis. I took a long time to stabilize using the CC/AC they selected. Later, they changed it, several times.

 

[Ensnared]

Decoding

Well, I think I'm going to "attempt" to get the decoding software going again because I'm totally lost regarding the tower issue. Although I have successfully used Pro96.com to analyze the Woodway system, it is not responding on the Bell P25 system. Again, this weekend, I hope to analyze Woodway and Waco P25 to see if it still responds the same.

I don't give up. So, I will be asking for more help on finishing this up. It should be noted that the new P25 does not tend to surface until the afternoon or evening hours. Then, it comes in like gangbusters.

 

[Ensnared]

Status

I hear an occasional transmission on the new P25 system every now and then. Since I'm not in the area after 7:00 pm, I don't if they are moving the system over at night.

EDACS and PV have been the rule of thumb as of late. Once I re-master Pro96.com, using a familiar field, I will apply such in Bell County.

Does anyone have any other observations?

 

[codyj528]

enjoy following this information.

have a working bc245xlt and purchased a uniden home patrol (might be having antenna issues on this). still a learning curve to try and program this stuff as I learn but the uniden was easiest to get working.

 

[Ensnared]

Onward

Instead of flipping the Bell P25 system by the aforementioned method of adding numbers to the existing Bell EDACS, I am going to start submitting information in the typical manner. Although atypical, I thought explaining the method would suffice for admission. I was attempting to simplify the protocol, but that did not work.

Due to my current medical situation, I will be submitting individual talk groups in short groups, not the entire Bell P25 DB.

So, if there are listeners getting impatient, bear with me. As I have stated, the decoding of the system has proven difficult for me. As I practice decoding on a known operating system in Waco, I will hopefully generalize to the Bell P25 system. I hope I can avoid this. I also have to climb the suspected steep learning curve for dongle-decoding. The proper name of this method escapes me, too damn early in the morning, LOL.

Hopefully, the P25 system will be up.

However, I will not submit any talk group unless I directly observe a unit (LE, fire, EMS,etc.) in a particular area that corresponds to what is being said on the radio. Or, I will verify a TG by hearing them actually state their agency or some other form of identification.

As previously stated, the Bell County TG listed on the DB is strongly suspected to be incorrect; however, I will not refute my submission until that TG comes up and I can actually hear them say KPD Dispatch, the suspected agency behind this TG.

 

[Ensnared]

Field Observations

It seems as thought the Bell P25 system is back up. I have determine that this is indeed a Phase I system. I am seeing P25 nn my 435HP. When they talk, the P2 icons are not present.

But, my efforts to refine the user of TG 50289 have been futile. I parked the radio on this talk group yesterday. I never once heard them say, "Killeen." Until I do, this won't be resolved. Again, if I can directly see and hear the person talking, I will submit.

Why am I saying this? Well, there have been several posts about this system, but I am not reading any confirmed hits like I experienced when I submitted the one for Temple PD Dispatch. I actually heard Temple state their ID. Please, help. It is a strong-sounding system, but the voice tends to be garbled at times. I am hoping this gets resolved at a later time. I would assume the system needs to be working well before refinements to voice can be made.

For those of you living in Killeen, I would appreciate a little help. I am monitoring from Morgan's Point.

 

[Embalmer-Mortician]

I have monitored from various points in the county and have taken numerous phase 2 hits on a 436HP. As for sharing what I have, well that ain't gonna happen. I will leave it to HRH Ensnared to do the heavy lifting. I will sit very comfortable indeed in the info I have accumulated and know to be correct. Hell I can even correct and add to the EDACS system since I use it to cross reference what the P25 system is doing but I won't. Yep, that's how I roll. Enjoy

 

[Ensnared]

Thanks

I have monitored from various points in the county and have taken numerous phase 2 hits on a 436HP. As for sharing what I have, well that ain't gonna happen. I will leave it to HRH Ensnared to do the heavy lifting. I will sit very comfortable indeed in the info I have accumulated and know to be correct. Hell I can even correct and add to the EDACS system since I use it to cross reference what the P25 system is doing but I won't. Yep, that's how I roll. Enjoy

Sir, since you are certain about your many observations, I strongly encourage you to submit your information since other people may need/want it to monitor the system. As I have repeatedly stated, I could use some help here.

Yes, I attempted to submit the addition to the RR DB using the addition method you were so graceful to provide, but the protocol for such does not exist. In fact, it was rejected. Only verified TGs are accepted for submission. I learned this when I attempted. I guess the methodology, although quite effective, was too haphazard for submission. I was rather disappointed.

Thanks for all your help in this matter. I greatly appreciate all the work you've done in this frequency sojourn. I know it can be tiring, even taxing at time. For some, including myself, it is rather difficult to do since this is my first larger system to analyze.

Although I have two 436HP radios and one PSR 500, I will use only one radio to figure this out. I actually have EDACS and P25 loaded in the radio. Without a FOIA submission, this will remain a mystery for a while.

But, there is hope. Hopefully, in the near future, I will "attempt" to master SDR.

I did not understand one thing. What does HRH mean?

 

[codyj528]

I have monitored from various points in the county and have taken numerous phase 2 hits on a 436HP. As for sharing what I have, well that ain't gonna happen. I will leave it to HRH Ensnared to do the heavy lifting. I will sit very comfortable indeed in the info I have accumulated and know to be correct. Hell I can even correct and add to the EDACS system since I use it to cross reference what the P25 system is doing but I won't. Yep, that's how I roll. Enjoy

Don't know why you are against the world.


If I can help in some shape or form (living in killeen) still waiting on a home patrol radio if thats any help but have a bc245xlt that im sharing feeds for others to listen in on locally.

 

[Wes]

FYI, on the P25 system, I know for a fact that the primary channel for the Sheriff's Office is labeled LE 1.

 

[Ensnared]

Community Effort

FYI, on the P25 system, I know for a fact that the primary channel for the Sheriff's Office is labeled LE 1.

Yes, we are a unique group of folks with an atypical hobby. When our efforts are shared with one another, all can benefit.

Thank you for the information since it is greatly appreciated. LE1 is likely the main SO channel. I am making note of this.

So, if you are actually seeing a LE radio with LE1 on the screen, and you have your radio with you, please make note of the associated talk group. I don't know if LE can see both the alpha tag and talk group when they operate their radios.

For example, I am attempting to figure out Killeen PD dispatch. Yes, after I added the numbers and converted the entire system, it is tracking as expected. What I don't understand about KPD Dispatch is all the chatter. I've never heard a dispatch channel also include units talking to one another, in the field. They are not running through dispatch, they are just talking to one another.

As I previously stated, the former Bell EDACS was confusing and incomplete in places. I hope to fix this matter by providing accurate information to the RR DB. Although I have made one mistake in this process, I hope to be more accurate in the future.

 

[Wes]

I'm not a deputy with BCSO, but I have ridden with a couple of the deputies. Here's what I can definitely tell you. LE 1 is the primary dispatch talkgroup for BCSO and many of the small towns that don't have their own dispatch. The radios do not show the talkgroup numbers. And BCSO has a mix of older EDACS radios and P25 radios. That's why you're seeing such a mishmash of activity on both systems.

 

[Ensnared]

Ride Along

I'm not a deputy with BCSO, but I have ridden with a couple of the deputies. Here's what I can definitely tell you. LE 1 is the primary dispatch talkgroup for BCSO and many of the small towns that don't have their own dispatch. The radios do not show the talkgroup numbers. And BCSO has a mix of older EDACS radios and P25 radios. That's why you're seeing such a mishmash of activity on both systems.

Thank you Wes. I think I remember your profession and understand why you would be riding along. Yes, I was under the impression that not all radios have been converted and/or upgraded, even replaced.

Typically, I hear agencies announce themselves prior to a transmission.. This is making ID very difficult. Even with proper decoding, one would still be faced with the identification of the talk group. Of course, this might be purposeful behavior. I truly hope not.

In your case, I suppose using something like "close call" would reveal their active talk group. Otherwise, we are back to direct observation of these transmissions.

Temple does not hesitate in identifying their agency. I am not hearing Bell County stating their ID. They are not saying, "Bell County to unit Adam 12" for instance.

So, I will be spending more time in Killeen where I suspect there will need to be more eyes on the ground.