Alain
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disregard
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Cellphone law?
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This is the full text from Norman's link that was above. Copied here because it's easier than going to the link and downloading the PDF
Enforcement of Section 23123.5 of the California Vehicle Code Hands Free Law
-----Original Message-----
From: Comm-Net Message [mailto:noreply@chp.ca.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:23 AM
To: @CHP
Subject: Comm-Net: Enforcement of Section 23123.5 of the California Vehicle Code Enforcement of Section 23123.5 of the California Vehicle Code
To: All Commands
Reference: Action Required
Subject: Enforcement of Section 23123.5 of the California Vehicle Code
Effective January 1, 2017, Section 23123.5 of the California Vehicle Code (CVC) was amended by Assembly Bill 1785, which substantially expanded the scope of Section 23123.5 CVC, from simply prohibiting the use of a wireless phone to text while driving, to prohibiting holding and operating a handheld wireless telephone or an electronic wireless communications device while driving.However, a driver may still use a handheld wireless telephone or an electronic wireless communication device while driving when:
The handheld wireless communication device is mounted to a windshield (in compliance with Section 26708 CVC), dashboard, or center console in a manner which does not interfere with the drivers view of the road, and; The drivers hand is used to activate or deactivate a feature with a single tap or swipe of the drivers finger.
Pursuant to Section 23123.5(f) CVC, the definition of an electronic wireless communications device includes, but is not limited to: a broadband personal communication device, a specialized mobile radio device, a handheld device or laptop computer with mobile data access, a pager, or a two-way messaging device. Section 23123.5 CVC does not apply to manufacturer-installed systems which are embedded in the vehicle, nor does it apply to an emergency services professional using a wireless telephone while operating an authorized Emergency vehicle, in the course and scope of employment.
For the purposes of Section 23123.5(f) CVC, a radio installed and mounted in a vehicle with a wired hand microphone (e.g., business band or citizen band [CB]radio) is not considered a wireless communication device, nor is it considered a specialized mobile radio device, and therefore is not subject to enforcement under this section.
This information will be added to an upcoming revision to Highway Patrol Manual 100.68, Traffic Enforcement Policy Manual, Chapter 5, Other Enforcement Issues.
CHP Headquarters/Office of the Commissioner/061/18227
Enforcement of Section 23123.5 of the California Vehicle Code Hands Free Law
-----Original Message-----
From: Comm-Net Message [mailto:noreply@chp.ca.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:23 AM
To: @CHP
Subject: Comm-Net: Enforcement of Section 23123.5 of the California Vehicle Code Enforcement of Section 23123.5 of the California Vehicle Code
To: All Commands
Reference: Action Required
Subject: Enforcement of Section 23123.5 of the California Vehicle Code
Effective January 1, 2017, Section 23123.5 of the California Vehicle Code (CVC) was amended by Assembly Bill 1785, which substantially expanded the scope of Section 23123.5 CVC, from simply prohibiting the use of a wireless phone to text while driving, to prohibiting holding and operating a handheld wireless telephone or an electronic wireless communications device while driving.However, a driver may still use a handheld wireless telephone or an electronic wireless communication device while driving when:
The handheld wireless communication device is mounted to a windshield (in compliance with Section 26708 CVC), dashboard, or center console in a manner which does not interfere with the drivers view of the road, and; The drivers hand is used to activate or deactivate a feature with a single tap or swipe of the drivers finger.
Pursuant to Section 23123.5(f) CVC, the definition of an electronic wireless communications device includes, but is not limited to: a broadband personal communication device, a specialized mobile radio device, a handheld device or laptop computer with mobile data access, a pager, or a two-way messaging device. Section 23123.5 CVC does not apply to manufacturer-installed systems which are embedded in the vehicle, nor does it apply to an emergency services professional using a wireless telephone while operating an authorized Emergency vehicle, in the course and scope of employment.
For the purposes of Section 23123.5(f) CVC, a radio installed and mounted in a vehicle with a wired hand microphone (e.g., business band or citizen band [CB]radio) is not considered a wireless communication device, nor is it considered a specialized mobile radio device, and therefore is not subject to enforcement under this section.
This information will be added to an upcoming revision to Highway Patrol Manual 100.68, Traffic Enforcement Policy Manual, Chapter 5, Other Enforcement Issues.
CHP Headquarters/Office of the Commissioner/061/18227
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curtissac
Newbie
Law still flawed, but CHP told us we were OK.
This is not just a question among hams. People have asked about CB and private land mobile, etc. The lawyers for my employer (and we have 9 figures invested in a radio network) set a policy at the first of the year saying their interpretation of the law was that we could not use hand held mics while driving and had to be safely and legally parked to talk on the radio.
There were a lot of opinions, but the lawyers got to decide.
We had a CHP PIO visit our annual safety conference last week. With this question being in the news, it was the first thing he was asked. His answer was that the official CHP interpretation of the law (he said it was policy from the Commissioner's office) is that wired hand held mics going to installed radios are not covered by the new "smartphone" law. They will not cite for using a wired two-way radio mic. He made two things clear -
- WIRED mics on radios that are installed in the vehicle. He said handheld radios of any type are still considered a handheld wireless device and cannot be used while driving. It has to be installed, as in part of the car (the laws says integrated - CHP appears to say that hard mounted and hard wired in to the vehicle is "integrated").
- This is the CHP's interpretation. ***Local police may have a different interpretation.*** This is why the law needs to be fixed; so we aren't leaving it to each agency to make their own interpretation and enforce it differently.
At least the CHP is now all on the same page. Just a month ago we were being told by officers that CHP enforcement was not consistent depending on where you are. But this PIO said it was now CHP wide policy that wired mics are OK.
This is not just a question among hams. People have asked about CB and private land mobile, etc. The lawyers for my employer (and we have 9 figures invested in a radio network) set a policy at the first of the year saying their interpretation of the law was that we could not use hand held mics while driving and had to be safely and legally parked to talk on the radio.
There were a lot of opinions, but the lawyers got to decide.
We had a CHP PIO visit our annual safety conference last week. With this question being in the news, it was the first thing he was asked. His answer was that the official CHP interpretation of the law (he said it was policy from the Commissioner's office) is that wired hand held mics going to installed radios are not covered by the new "smartphone" law. They will not cite for using a wired two-way radio mic. He made two things clear -
- WIRED mics on radios that are installed in the vehicle. He said handheld radios of any type are still considered a handheld wireless device and cannot be used while driving. It has to be installed, as in part of the car (the laws says integrated - CHP appears to say that hard mounted and hard wired in to the vehicle is "integrated").
- This is the CHP's interpretation. ***Local police may have a different interpretation.*** This is why the law needs to be fixed; so we aren't leaving it to each agency to make their own interpretation and enforce it differently.
At least the CHP is now all on the same page. Just a month ago we were being told by officers that CHP enforcement was not consistent depending on where you are. But this PIO said it was now CHP wide policy that wired mics are OK.
Be aware: San Jose Police Department intends to enforce this law to the fullest extent possible. They want the citation revenue. Other cities are probably in the same bag.
Our ARES/RACES net control protocol has just been updated to request that operators check in with health & welfare after they determine they are in legal compliance (suggest parked safely, preferably private grounds). It's a pull request rather than a push, which changes the whole characterization of DSW supervision requirements.
Our ARES/RACES net control protocol has just been updated to request that operators check in with health & welfare after they determine they are in legal compliance (suggest parked safely, preferably private grounds). It's a pull request rather than a push, which changes the whole characterization of DSW supervision requirements.
Markinsac
Member
The author of the original bill has been contacted, and is working to get language into a new bill that will exempt amateur radio as well as business band and CB. It will most likely NOT include the use of a handheld radio.
An update from the June Sac Valley Section News:
Updates on AB-1222 Amendment Bill to Distracted Driving Law
Update on the CA Hands Free Law - AB 1785/CVC 23123.5, posted May 22, 2017
We have been fielding a number of inquires on if Amateur Radio (2-way radio) is exempt from the updated "hands-free" law that went into effect on January 1st of this year. The language of the legislation is "all inclusive" and tends to, by default, wrap 2-way radio use into the prohibition.
Amateur licensees in the Pacific and South West Divisions of ARRL have been working on this issue. The original bill's sponsor has been contacted a number of times. The CHP command has also been contacted. As a result, the CHP has issued a memo to its officers advising that "a radio installed and mounted in a vehicle with a wired hand microphone is not considered a wireless communications device........and therefore is not subject to enforcement under this section." That memo was issued on March 28, 2017.
More recently, the sponsoring assemblyman entered into the Assembly Journal a letter establishing the legislative intent of the law. Essentially, the letter states that common 2-way, wired radio use was not intended to be addressed by the newer hands-free law. This letter was published in the Assembly Journal on April 27, 2017.
Please note: Use of an HT would still be a violation. The radio must be mounted and the microphone be corded to the radio.
I have packaged the CHP memo and the letter to the Assembly Journal in one document. Click this link to download. Please pass it on. Amateurs should carry copies of these documents in their vehicles to present to law enforcement officials in case they are stopped. It may, or may not, prevent them from receiving a citation.
Please remember that not all law enforcement officers will be aware of these documents, and may not follow them. Amateurs may still be cited.
I would like to hear if any Amateur is actually cited under CVC 23123.5 for using Amateur Radio.
We can all thank the past SW Div Vice Director Marty Woll N6VI, Jim Aspinwall NO1PC, Norm Lucas WB6RVR, and others behind the scenes for their valiant effort to move this clarification forward. The effort is not over, as equally ambiguous language is being promoted in the revision to the law moving through the legislature now.
Please remind everyone that they must still not use their radios in a manner that detracts from their safe operation of their vehicle. Drivers can still be cited under the very broad "distracted driving" code section.
Thanks! 73, Bill Hillendahl KH6GJV, ARRL San Francisco Section Manager
Update by Jim Aspinwall, NO1PC, posted May 16, 2017
Jim Aspinwall, NO1PC, of the movement to amend the California Hands-Free Driving Law, has put out a call on NO1PC.ORG - California Hands-Free Law CVC 23123.5 Page with instructions for radio amateurs and registered voters to contact their State senators now regarding the new amendment bill AB-1222 now under consideration as it will not adequately protect mobile radio operation.
I wish to thank Jim Aspinwall, NO1PC, Norm Lucas, WB6RVR, Glen Pitts K6KJQ and Mike Morris WA6ILQ for their diligent advocacy and work with the office of Assemblymember Bill Quirk, the California Assembly and the California Highway Patrol, and for the rank and file ARRL membership and radio amateurs throughout California who have signed on to support this effort to correct the ambiguous language in the existing law. The effort continues with some concerns over the language in the bill that will proceed to the California Senate.
For those who wish to keep updated on the status and contribute to the effort, I recommend Jim Aspinwall's detailed overview of the concerns and progress of the effort on his Hands-Free Information Site.
-Carol Milazzo, KP4MD
Updates on AB-1222 Amendment Bill to Distracted Driving Law
Update on the CA Hands Free Law - AB 1785/CVC 23123.5, posted May 22, 2017
We have been fielding a number of inquires on if Amateur Radio (2-way radio) is exempt from the updated "hands-free" law that went into effect on January 1st of this year. The language of the legislation is "all inclusive" and tends to, by default, wrap 2-way radio use into the prohibition.
Amateur licensees in the Pacific and South West Divisions of ARRL have been working on this issue. The original bill's sponsor has been contacted a number of times. The CHP command has also been contacted. As a result, the CHP has issued a memo to its officers advising that "a radio installed and mounted in a vehicle with a wired hand microphone is not considered a wireless communications device........and therefore is not subject to enforcement under this section." That memo was issued on March 28, 2017.
More recently, the sponsoring assemblyman entered into the Assembly Journal a letter establishing the legislative intent of the law. Essentially, the letter states that common 2-way, wired radio use was not intended to be addressed by the newer hands-free law. This letter was published in the Assembly Journal on April 27, 2017.
Please note: Use of an HT would still be a violation. The radio must be mounted and the microphone be corded to the radio.
I have packaged the CHP memo and the letter to the Assembly Journal in one document. Click this link to download. Please pass it on. Amateurs should carry copies of these documents in their vehicles to present to law enforcement officials in case they are stopped. It may, or may not, prevent them from receiving a citation.
Please remember that not all law enforcement officers will be aware of these documents, and may not follow them. Amateurs may still be cited.
I would like to hear if any Amateur is actually cited under CVC 23123.5 for using Amateur Radio.
We can all thank the past SW Div Vice Director Marty Woll N6VI, Jim Aspinwall NO1PC, Norm Lucas WB6RVR, and others behind the scenes for their valiant effort to move this clarification forward. The effort is not over, as equally ambiguous language is being promoted in the revision to the law moving through the legislature now.
Please remind everyone that they must still not use their radios in a manner that detracts from their safe operation of their vehicle. Drivers can still be cited under the very broad "distracted driving" code section.
Thanks! 73, Bill Hillendahl KH6GJV, ARRL San Francisco Section Manager
Update by Jim Aspinwall, NO1PC, posted May 16, 2017
Jim Aspinwall, NO1PC, of the movement to amend the California Hands-Free Driving Law, has put out a call on NO1PC.ORG - California Hands-Free Law CVC 23123.5 Page with instructions for radio amateurs and registered voters to contact their State senators now regarding the new amendment bill AB-1222 now under consideration as it will not adequately protect mobile radio operation.
I wish to thank Jim Aspinwall, NO1PC, Norm Lucas, WB6RVR, Glen Pitts K6KJQ and Mike Morris WA6ILQ for their diligent advocacy and work with the office of Assemblymember Bill Quirk, the California Assembly and the California Highway Patrol, and for the rank and file ARRL membership and radio amateurs throughout California who have signed on to support this effort to correct the ambiguous language in the existing law. The effort continues with some concerns over the language in the bill that will proceed to the California Senate.
For those who wish to keep updated on the status and contribute to the effort, I recommend Jim Aspinwall's detailed overview of the concerns and progress of the effort on his Hands-Free Information Site.
-Carol Milazzo, KP4MD
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N4OGL
Member
Please delete
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Rred
Member
Let's face it, using a phone or a radio, handheld or corded mike or whatever, means the driver is paying attention to something that is not the road. And that makes using the phone or radio whatever it is, distracted driving. For everyone including hams. And, oh yes, that means cops too. No more radio mikes for cops who are driving, that's distracted driving and they certainly don't need distractions.
I just want the contract for all that new VOX equipment they're gonna need installed in the cop cars, once the legislature gets around to thinking clearly.
I just want the contract for all that new VOX equipment they're gonna need installed in the cop cars, once the legislature gets around to thinking clearly.
Markinsac
Member
The legislature has a deadline for moving bills from the house of origin to the other house. AB 1222 passed from the Assembly to the Senate prior to the deadline.
This bill is still active.
This bill is still active.
Just got back from a trip to Nevada. Upon entering the state, there is a large sign saying "using a handheld cellular device is prohibited". (Might not be the exact wording, but close) I thought the message was quite clear.
ke6gcv
Member
Norm Lucas, WB6RVR, has now become a Silent Key.
Sacramento Valley Section Official Observer Coordinator Norm Lucas, WB6RVR, SK
Sacramento Valley Section Official Observer Coordinator Norm Lucas, WB6RVR, SK
I hate being on the phone while driving, especially handsfree. I have a car with a dozen talking radios at all times, and the ability to utilize a two way palm mic is much safer for me. I don't know if this would apply to anyone else, but when I key up my mic while driving, say making a right turn at an intersection, my brain will automatically make me stop talking, and while i am holding a mic in one hand, it is not my primary focus of attention. I really do not understand why touching a phone while talking is seen as more hazardous than handsfree...handfree IMO turns your entire visual environment into the focus of your conversation, I am more concerned when i see idiots at night staring at a bright glowing rectangle int heir hand!
Paul
Rred
Member
I've picked up calls on a speakerphone, the built-in kind. And talked on a handheld phone, although an earmic is damned useful when you've got a stick shift. And even on the speakerphone, I've been known to say "I'm driving now I'll call you back later" and hang up. Or, stay on the earmic for 20 minutes driving an empty road late on a clear night, looking for some conversation to keep me mentally alert.
Bottom line, blaming the phone when the problem is drivers who CAN'T FOCUS or prioritize, is just classic western stupidity. Bear in mind that our founding fathers "knew" that 80% of the citizens should not be allowed to vote and run the country because they were unqualified. (Arguing over which 80% that should be, and how the tools to sort them out have changed over the years, doesn't affect the basic precept.)
Heck, just last week I took a wrong exit and had to make a ten minute loop. No phones, no kids fighting in the back, no passenger arguing politics needed.
But I still want that contract. Somebody's got to part those fools and their money, and it might as well be me.
Bottom line, blaming the phone when the problem is drivers who CAN'T FOCUS or prioritize, is just classic western stupidity. Bear in mind that our founding fathers "knew" that 80% of the citizens should not be allowed to vote and run the country because they were unqualified. (Arguing over which 80% that should be, and how the tools to sort them out have changed over the years, doesn't affect the basic precept.)
Heck, just last week I took a wrong exit and had to make a ten minute loop. No phones, no kids fighting in the back, no passenger arguing politics needed.
But I still want that contract. Somebody's got to part those fools and their money, and it might as well be me.
Some of us have been using microphones and portable radios in cars for years (30+ in my case). I've done it during a high-speed chase. I don't ever remember even a close call because of it. It may take a little practice to do it safely.
The MDTs were brought in after I retired so I can't speak to that.
The MDTs were brought in after I retired so I can't speak to that.
"Bottom line, blaming the phone when the problem is drivers who CAN'T FOCUS or prioritize, is just classic western stupidity." -THIS
How do pilots handle multitasking? Add someone shooting at you, and I think it is ALL a matter of training.
How do pilots handle multitasking? Add someone shooting at you, and I think it is ALL a matter of training.
Rred
Member
Not all training. Multitasking is a form of intelligence, a skill that is partly the way you are built. There are 22 forms of "intelligence" last I heard. Among them things like kinesthetic sense, the way a gymnast always knows how to land on their feet, while you and I could train all year and still not have the knack for it. Like an NBA star shooting baskets all day from the halfway line, and never muffing it.
Some people just do it better than others and that's probably partly a matter of genetics, specific brain development. Not all pilots become combat aces.
And no matter how well we think we're doing it, all the studies have shown that multitasking still takes a performance hit. As Craig Ferguson once said "I don't understand this drinking and driving thing (you Americans have). You can drink, and you can drive, but how can you possibly do both at once and still do them well?!"
Some people just do it better than others and that's probably partly a matter of genetics, specific brain development. Not all pilots become combat aces.
And no matter how well we think we're doing it, all the studies have shown that multitasking still takes a performance hit. As Craig Ferguson once said "I don't understand this drinking and driving thing (you Americans have). You can drink, and you can drive, but how can you possibly do both at once and still do them well?!"
All research shows that humans are just bad at multitasking. Working on two tasks simultaneously reduces efficiency to lower than 50% each. We may be functional on both tasks, but it will take longer to complete them versus concentrating on one at a time.
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