Cellphone law?

[prcguy]

I had lunch today with a couple of LA County Sheriff friends and their interpretation of the law is it does not apply to CB, amateur, commercial two-way radios and they will not write tickets for simply using a two-way radio while driving.
prcguy

 

[Delivers1234]

I had lunch today with a couple of LA County Sheriff friends and their interpretation of the law is it does not apply to CB, amateur, commercial two-way radios and they will not write tickets for simply using a two-way radio while driving.
prcguy

Hi. Thanks. Were u on the air today. I heard someone on the wins deceiving this.

 

[prcguy]

On the air but on HF.

Hi. Thanks. Were u on the air today. I heard someone on the wins deceiving this.

 

[mm]

Oregon is writing a similar but more restrictive law as I type this but it prohibits all electronic devices no matter what they are with no hands free allowances either.

Anything that is not an original OEM installed electronic device will be prohibited.

And best of all in the Oregon law if caught with any electronic devices it is a Class C felony with over a $6000 dollar fine and up to 1 year in prison.


Devices no longer allowed include two-way radios of all kinds, navigation devices, IE GPS devices that are not original OEM manufacturer devices that are a part of the vehicle are also no longer allowed.

Oregon Senate prez wants distracted driving penalties on par with drunk driving - BikePortland.org


This senator is unaware that recent findings showed that a major contributor to accident was in fact OEM installed auto devices and cell phones with no mention of two way radios being a contributor.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/...amed-for-rise-in-traffic-fatalities.html?_r=0


So far I cannot find any substantial evidence that two-way radios or voice assisted aftermarket navigation GPS devices are a major contributor to any spikes in accidents.

Maybe the Senator has something out against the hundreds of tax paying LMR companies in Oregon or maybe he wants to ruin Oregons economy by hurting a very large GPS manufacturer who aside from being set up in Kansas is also designing some of the same devices in the same capitol where the good senator works, Salem Oregon.


Additionally; The ARRL isn't interested anymore in getting involved in things like this.

 

[KK4JUG]

That's a knee-jerk reaction to a serious problem. The law probably won't hold up. And, that penalty is not commensurate with the seriousness of the crime. Also, they're going to have to exempt public safety.

Just because they're writing it doesn't mean it will pass.

 

[bharvey2]

Oregon is writing a similar but more restrictive law as I type this but it prohibits all electronic devices no matter what they are with no hands free allowances either.

Anything that is not an original OEM installed electronic device will be prohibited.

And best of all in the Oregon law if caught with any electronic devices it is a Class C felony with over a $6000 dollar fine and up to 1 year in prison.


Devices no longer allowed include two-way radios of all kinds, navigation devices, IE GPS devices that are not original OEM manufacturer devices that are a part of the vehicle are also no longer allowed.

Oregon Senate prez wants distracted driving penalties on par with drunk driving - BikePortland.org


This senator is unaware that recent findings showed that a major contributor to accident was in fact OEM installed auto devices and cell phones with no mention of two way radios being a contributor.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/...amed-for-rise-in-traffic-fatalities.html?_r=0


So far I cannot find any substantial evidence that two-way radios or voice assisted aftermarket navigation GPS devices are a major contributor to any spikes in accidents.

Maybe the Senator has something out against the hundreds of tax paying LMR companies in Oregon or maybe he wants to ruin Oregons economy by hurting a very large GPS manufacturer who aside from being set up in Kansas is also designing some of the same devices in the same capitol where the good senator works, Salem Oregon.


Additionally; The ARRL isn't interested anymore in getting involved in things like this.

The senator sounds like a California transplant...

 

[mm]

Unfortunately do no assume that it won't pass in Oregon as time is running out and it appears that nobody in the radio industry has become aware of it until today.


One of the major LMR companies in Oregon, TRBoWest, is not even aware at this time that this law is being moved thru as I speak.


TrboWest has numerous mountain top DMR sites around Oregon with thousand of mobile business users, IE shuttles, cabs, thousands of small Businesses that need to dispatch drivers around the state.


Additionally TboWest makes note on their web page addressing customers to not use Cell phones for business as it is dangerous and they specifically make the claim that LMR radio is a safer alternative to cell phones while driving but now even they are unaware that their business model may soon be obsolete and their customers could find themselves in hot water.

 

[OregonScanner]

I wouldn't comply with California's law or Oregon proposd law if it passes. Our lawmakers are scumbags.

 

[N4GIX]

In the article, the following sentences are clarifying:

If passed, the new law would only allow use of a mobile device under three basic circumstances: calling for emergency medical assistance; operating an ambulance or emergency vehicle; or if using a hands-free accessory. The existing law had several more exceptions including ones for police officers, tow truck drivers, amateur radio users, utility workers, and transit operators.

It would seem to me that they would have to amend the proposed new law to retain the now present exceptions.

Also, no state law can preempt federal laws regarding possession and use of amateur radio equipment.

 

[plughie]

It will probably come down to this:
(f) For the purposes of this section, “electronic wireless communications device” includes, but is not limited to, a broadband personal communication device, a specialized mobile radio device, a handheld device or laptop computer with mobile data access, a pager, or a two-way messaging device.

Ham radios are generalized mobile radio devices, which don't fall into the description, but could fall under "not limited to". This would likely come down to officer discretion. As a RACES member, I might get some leeway, as nearly any use of the radio could fall under practice and training, if not directly part of my assigned duties. I did hear someone say, "I'd rather be a plaintiff in court than a defendant," which is probably where most of us would prefer to be. It's an uphill battle against the law and points on our license, and a distracted driving ticket is upwards of $400. A traffic court judge would likely come down on the side of bringing more money into the city/county. Also, we don't have quite as many rights against an infraction as we do against a misdemeanor or felony.

If you get one of these, go for a trial by written declaration. Make your case in writing. The officer will have to respond in writing or drop the charges, and they don't get overtime for it, as they would in court. Good luck, and I hope none of us has to test the waters of this new, poorly-written, poorly-conceived law that has just made most commercial driving operations and mobile ham radio illegal.

 

[mm]

Where the wording begins to bcross over and become a catch22 law is where they lump all devices as mobile electronic devices which precludes using a hands free accessory anyway since the previous wording says such devices, (two way radio, Navigation devices and such) are not permitted anymore.


The fact that every GPS that I use, (I and many others do beta testing on GPS devices for a major GPS MFG who designs them in Kansas and are tested in Oregon on a daily basis).

Every gps device that I test has a hand free /voice activated feature but the wording of this proposed bill would make even these devices illegal since they are not a permanent installed OEM part of the manufacturers vehicle.


So far I don't know of any of the beta testers who have been involved in accidents either and this is after 6 years that I have been doing it while others have been doing it longer than I have.

It is so frustrating trying to inform these elected officials up here that their bills are going to end up killing jobs instead of creating jobs.

 

[PaulNDaOC]

Interpretations on unclear aspects of the law should start coming out of the courts soon enough. We will just have to wait and see which way the wind is blowing.

Most law enforcement agencies subscribe to timely journals that highlight the latest ruoings of interest to come from courts.

Stay tuned.

 

[MtnBiker2005]

UPDATE TO 23123.5 CVC, Ham Radio operation while driving.
http://www.papasys.com/showthread.php?t=2025

 

[ke6gcv]

UPDATE TO 23123.5 CVC, Ham Radio operation while driving.
UPDATE TO 23123.5 CVC, Ham Radio operation while driving. - The PAPA System

I sure hope the removal of Ham Radio was accidental! Look at this from a standpoint of supporting events. More notably, events involving bicycles, marathons, pulling a 6-horse slant-load trailer for an equestrian event, or other events where you're driving. What are we to do now? Pull off the road, come to a complete stop, then pick up the mic?

Yes, as the law is written, the "in the event of an emergency" part is covered. But for logistical needs, the moment you grab that mic while driving, you're hosed!

Ridiculous!!!

 

[Anderegg]

That's a knee-jerk reaction to a serious problem. The law probably won't hold up. And, that penalty is not commensurate with the seriousness of the crime. Also, they're going to have to exempt public safety.

Just because they're writing it doesn't mean it will pass.

In California, law enforcement is exempt from all cell phone laws, and can even type on their computer while responding code 3 to a call...while simultaneously talking on a two way radio. Exemptions from parking and speeding is one thing, but when it comes down to being allowed to operate certain devices, maybe they should offer drivers training classes with certification, sort of like how you need a special license to operate a big rig or motorcycle? If it's not inherently UNSAFE, then it should be licensable.

Paul

 

[plughie]

Cops get "training" to use these devices safely. Why can't we?

In California, law enforcement is exempt from all cell phone laws, and can even type on their computer while responding code 3 to a call...while simultaneously talking on a two way radio. Exemptions from parking and speeding is one thing, but when it comes down to being allowed to operate certain devices, maybe they should offer drivers training classes with certification, sort of like how you need a special license to operate a big rig or motorcycle? If it's not inherently UNSAFE, then it should be licensable.

Paul

 

[HIPCHIP]

Sorry, I was just showing that not all officers know the law as they should and was advising to find a more experienced officer to make sure the info they get is correct.

CHP receives update vehicle code training sometime in the first quarter of the new year. Whether it will discuss amateur radio use and how it relates to this section I don't know, but if the office doesn't know, they can call HQ and it will be researched, so you could call the local office and ask them, or even ask for the phone number to HQ that would research this.

From reading the law it's obvious they are going after smart phones and iPad type devices. Ham radio used to be specifically exempt, but with the way this law is written it's hard to tell. If an officer sees you using a microphone, or talking on your HT, they might stop you. I'd just advise that as far as you know Amateur Radio and CB's are exempt because you can keep your eyes on the road while talking on the mic.

Anyway you look at it, just another stupid law made in Kalifornia that doesn't look at the whole picture before putting it out there.

 

[MtnBiker2005]

Update from CHP in Sacramento has provided guidance to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's office. Info on the main page.
http://www.papasys.com

 

[AZScanner]

This is why I only visit Taxifornicatia and not live there anymore. I concur with prcguy though, most cops don't care what you do so long as you're not being an idiot about it. Talking on a HT while driving is no big deal to them but if you are seatbeltless, eating a sandwich, drinking a big gulp, reading your facebook page on your smartphone, AND talking on the HT all at the same time while driving 82 in a 65, then you are for sure gonna get written up for all that and then some. Discretion is the way to go. Don't be stupid, don't be obvious about it and if you do get written up, fight the ticket IN COURT, not on the side of the road. At most you'll have a small fine to pay but if you can convince the judge you were in complete control of your vehicle, much like any first responder would also be in control of their vehicle if they were driving and talking on the radio at the same time, then I think most judges would either reduce the fine to the minimum or throw it out all together. Hell I got caught once in California for driving a scooter in the bike lane with no license. My defense was the thing only went 30 MPH and I didn't want to obstruct traffic on the main road where the speed limit at the time was 50. The judge agreed and tossed the bike lane ticket, even though I was clearly in violation of the law. I still had to pay a fine due to the lack of a proper motorcycle endorsed license however, so I don't recommend it.

-AZ

 

[Anderegg]

AZ, we should hope officers know the difference between the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law...letter says can't touch nothing, spirit was to stop people from staring at things they are touching...I am all for laws that give LE PC for messing with the bad guys, as long as they don't use them to get their "I am God, commander of all humans" thrills with them!

BTW, apparently, tow trucks can still legally play with their radios...they just get a blanket exemption, I don't see anything requiring them to be trained or certified to operate a single button in their hand.

Paul