Chasing a Police Scanner: Police Calls in New York City

[KE0SKN]

Loophole to NYS laws... I got a ticket in 1997.. If your scanner is connected in any way to your ham radio gear. That scanner becomes part of your ham radio gear. My ticket was dismissed.

I shared the same speaker as my ham radio did too.

 

[chrismol1]

A scanner, by definition, is a radio. I'd fight this one all the way through the courts.

A scanner might be a radio but you can't shove your ham license on your Uniden and say its your ham radio.

From NF2G's site
"New York’s Vehicle and Traffic Law prohibits "equipping" a motor vehicle with a radio that is "capable" of receiving police frequencies unless one is a Peace Officer, has a permit, or is licensed by the Federal Communications Commission as an amateur radio operator. The so-called “ham exemption” is subject to conflicting interpretations, as are certain provisions of the mobile scanner law."

That ham exemption is referring to ham radios with wide band receive like most ham gear today is capable of it. And in kc0vgj case, there is probably a few loopholes in the ham exemption but the ham exemption doesn't not allow you to have your Uniden or whatever receiving next to you on police frequencies.

Having just a receiver in your vehicle on police frequencies without permission is illegal in NYS

 

[Confuzzled]

Local agencies cannot in any way interfere in the use of Federally licensed radio's.

Scanners are not federally licensed radios. Scanners are receivers, not transceivers. They do not transmit and are not considered HAM radios.

The law says you can have a HAM transceiver, so they are not interfering with that.

 

[vinzep491]

Loophole to NYS laws... I got a ticket in 1997.. If your scanner is connected in any way to your ham radio gear. That scanner becomes part of your ham radio gear. My ticket was dismissed.

I shared the same speaker as my ham radio did too.

Wow, good loophole. Are you 100% certain this will hold up always?

 

[KE0SKN]

My grandfather has two old tub radios in his trunk:
1.) Receiver only = Crystal control three chanel A.B.C. "c = Police channel"
2.) Transmitter only = Crystal Controlled

A scanner is not only to listen to police, I use mine to monitor other ham bands and to monitor the nws. A scanner is a radio receiver and has ham frequencies, so there for its part of my ham radio.

the police can't take my grandfather's receiver because it protected by federal law by having ham frequencies installed.

 

[vinzep491]

My grandfather has two old tub radios in his trunk:
1.) Receiver only = Crystal control three chanel A.B.C. "c = Police channel"
2.) Transmitter only = Crystal Controlled

A scanner is not only to listen to police, I use mine to monitor other ham bands and to monitor the nws. A scanner is a radio receiver and has ham frequencies, so there for its part of my ham radio.

Hmm... this makes sense ..............in theory..

But I wonder if it that would not apply because you do, in fact, have the PD programmed in as well...

Or is this overlooked because it's a part of a ham rig?

 

[chrismol1]

New York’s Vehicle and Traffic Law prohibits "equipping" a motor vehicle with a radio that is "capable" of receiving police frequencies
A scanner may be able to receive more than just police but the law says capable

The ham exemption is exactly the case for kc0vgj's grandfather. His receiver and transmitter are capable of receiving but it is on his ham radio gear therefore he is exempt.

"A scanner is a radio receiver and has ham frequencies, so there for its part of my ham radio."
I think this needs more investigating. Yes you are on ham freqs, but like before is it connected to ham gear or is it just a stand alone scanner?

 

[vinzep491]

I'm very interested in this topic, Anyone else have any experience or anything to add?

 

[chrismol1]

Here it is
§ 397. Equipping motor vehicles with radio receiving sets capable of
receiving signals on the frequencies allocated for police use. A
person, not a police officer or peace officer, acting pursuant to his
special duties, who equips a motor vehicle with a radio receiving set
capable of receiving signals on the frequencies allocated for police use
or knowingly uses a motor vehicle so equipped or who in any way
knowingly interferes with the transmission of radio messages by the
police without having first secured a permit so to do from the person
authorized to issue such a permit by the local governing body or board
of the city, town or village in which such person resides, or where such
person resides outside of a city or village in a county having a county
police department by the board of supervisors of such county, is guilty
of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not exceeding one thousand
dollars, or imprisonment not exceeding six months, or both. Nothing in
this section contained shall be construed to apply to any person who
holds a valid amateur radio operator's license issued by the federal
communications commission and who operates a duly licensed portable
mobile transmitter and in connection therewith a receiver or receiving
set on frequencies exclusively allocated by the federal communications
commission to duly licensed radio amateurs.

Operates a duly licensed TRANSMITTER AND in CONNECTION with a receiver

 

[KE0SKN]

all ham rigs have some type of emergency law,military,ect. frequencies in it or capabilities.
----------------------------------
All state should leave ham radio operators alone on this subject. Were the one they call on when there stuff breaks. I.E. "9/11, Katrina,WWI & WWII," and so on.

 

[Ishmole]

A scanner, by definition, is a radio. I'd fight this one all the way through the courts.

And you would probably win....ask 10 cops and you will get 10 opinions. Ask 10 local courts, etc..
This law was written many years ago, probably before CB and definitely before scanners, and leaves much to be desired.. It should be re-written to cover the issues we are discussing in today's world. As for now, if a person has a valid amateur radio license and has a "radio capable of receiving police frequencies" I would let him go on his way. BTW, what is a radio capable of receiving police frequencies? Is it a scanner with police frequencies programmed in it, or one that CAN have them programmed in it, but does not. Is it still capable of receiving police frequencies? Also, what are police frequencies? Years ago the FCC allocated certain frequencies and designated them as police frequencies, or local government, or emergency medical and school buses ( I never understood that one!), or business, utility, fire, etc. Now all those frequencies are labeled "public safety". The law is outdated.

 

[Ishmole]

RE-reading the law, it looks like it was written before the advent of transceivers for ham's.

 

[N0BDW]

And you would probably win....ask 10 cops and you will get 10 opinions. Ask 10 local courts, etc..
This law was written many years ago, probably before CB and definitely before scanners, and leaves much to be desired.. It should be re-written to cover the issues we are discussing in today's world. As for now, if a person has a valid amateur radio license and has a "radio capable of receiving police frequencies" I would let him go on his way. BTW, what is a radio capable of receiving police frequencies? Is it a scanner with police frequencies programmed in it, or one that CAN have them programmed in it, but does not. Is it still capable of receiving police frequencies? Also, what are police frequencies? Years ago the FCC allocated certain frequencies and designated them as police frequencies, or local government, or emergency medical and school buses ( I never understood that one!), or business, utility, fire, etc. Now all those frequencies are labeled "public safety". The law is outdated.

Indeed. I would argue any construction worker who carries a two-way HT or a mobile in their vehicle would be in violation, according to the very vague wording used.

 

[RadioDaze]

The INTENT of the law seems to be to prevent the public from driving around with the ability to monitor police calls. The LETTER of the law fails to keep up with current technologies, and is pretty vague. So it's a real problem when it ends up in court, where the verbiage of the law becomes critical. If a court could rule according to the INTENT of the law, the scannerists and hams would lose every case.

What I wonder is, is it still the INTENT of state officials to prevent the public from having the ability to monitor police calls from their vehicles? What brought that way of thinking about in the first place? Do they still really care, or are they just enforcing the law because it's still on the books? NY legislators need to either rewrite it, or just put it out of its misery once and for all.

 

[vinzep491]

I think this law needs updated...

 

[chrismol1]

Indeed. I would argue any construction worker who carries a two-way HT or a mobile in their vehicle would be in violation, according to the very vague wording used.

If this construction worker is using a FCC (type accepted) land mobile radio that Part 90 type accepted land mobile radio must be programmed in advance. (he would need a land mobile radio to be able to receive public safety because they also uses land mobile radio governed by Part 90)
Per Part 90 FCC regulation they cannot be changed in the field beyond their pre-programmed frequencies.
The radio shop programming their equipment would be in violation if they programmed anything else beyond their license or if they did not have authorization.
Only Part 90 front keypad programmable radios are supposed to be only used by the Fed Gov't such as Motorola XTS5000 Fed Gov't FPP. Feds are regulated not by FCC but by NTIA if anyone is wondering about certain part 90 FPP radios that are out there

That copy of VTL I copied and pasted was from 2006 although you can twist it anyway your heart desires to make it in your benefit

 

[kd7gxu]

food for thought

First off, I'm glad I live in WY instead of NY. I wonder what the law would be regarding a blackberry app that plays scanner audio through a stream? The technology has gotten out ahead of the law perhaps.

 

[902]

"Stringers" are nothing new in NYC. Without respect to the VTL, this is a decades-old issue. Back in the day, when I worked for the City, there would be a number of Dodge Gran Furys screeching up at a major incident. Some guys pulled out PD gear from their trunks, others pulled out an Ikegami camera (am I dating myself with that pre-Betacam reference?). It was just a fact of life, especially after midnight when people used to troll calls to get a shot for the morning edition. Unfortunately these days the best thing to do (IMO, anyway) is to use the scanner to avoid the affected areas and just listen (it's never fun when a transformer blows and PCB tainted oil is raining down on you as you're in the crowd gawking).

I do recall a 1984 article in the Daily News Sunday magazine about journalists, stringers, notification groups, and "buffs." It would be a fun read if anyone could ever find it.

 

[N0BDW]

If this construction worker is using a FCC (type accepted) land mobile radio that Part 90 type accepted land mobile radio must be programmed in advance. (he would need a land mobile radio to be able to receive public safety because they also uses land mobile radio governed by Part 90)
Per Part 90 FCC regulation they cannot be changed in the field beyond their pre-programmed frequencies.
The radio shop programming their equipment would be in violation if they programmed anything else beyond their license or if they did not have authorization.
Only Part 90 front keypad programmable radios are supposed to be only used by the Fed Gov't such as Motorola XTS5000 Fed Gov't FPP. Feds are regulated not by FCC but by NTIA if anyone is wondering about certain part 90 FPP radios that are out there

That copy of VTL I copied and pasted was from 2006 although you can twist it anyway your heart desires to make it in your benefit

Construction workers don't necessarily have to use part 90 radios. They could be using MURS, and receive VHF police dispatches. The Wouxun radios are part 90 and are (debatably) easily programmed via the front panel.

Also it is no violation to program a part 90 radio to receive police frequencies, you just need an ATO to transmit on them.

That copy of VTL I copied and pasted was from 2006 although you can twist it anyway your heart desires to make it in your benefit

That's true of any law, of course.

 

[mike4164]

Also, my intentions are not to chase calls. In fact, I'd just as soon be as far away from them as possible unless directed otherwise. I have no desire to cross police lines unless absolutely necessary, and in those cases I do have credentials (issued by the OEM) to do so.



Where do you have credentials from OEM to cross a crime scene line????? Because in NYC ONLY the NYPD gives out press credentials and are the only ones who can authorize crossing into a crime scene in NYC.