Sorry for the "E" Question. But, can anyone confirm that (Likely) CHP CRIS Patrol TalkGroups will stay in the clear? If not, I won't bother programming my G4.
CHP & Trunking 2024
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mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I would be surprised if the were not encrypted. The CaDOJ and FBI mandates encrypting criminal justice information/personal identifying information. One of the reasons they are building out CRIS is to meet that requirement.
Testing has been in the clear and you may still hear something.
There's a CHP video online from earlier this year where they talk about incorporating the new Motorola APX NEXT radios on their future system and they indicate it will have encryption. It also talks about their challenges with low band and all the interference from the patrol vehicle itself. You might want to search this site for CHP APX NEXT (its been posted before on RR) or YouTube to find it.
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I don't know if they used NXT's or just 8000's but yes, they attempted to test it. It did not go well. They have gone back to just the lowband VHF for now.
I recently spoke to a CHP communications supervisor who is very well versed in CRIS and he said it is their intention to go fully "E".
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Thanks, that what I expected, but had only talked with the CalOES people, not CHP directly.
Bummer! I might get a few more listens before it's locked down.
Ravenfalls
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My understanding of CRIS
Bay area move very soon. That start switch in areas with solid CRIS OR LTE with 100% ENC.
Toro Pk active , start of Imperial County + some San Diego county coverage= do searches as new sites not posted. Most likely Black Mt & Monument come online & allow those districts to switch CRIS. Slow process.
BLM has used Toro Pk for eastern Imperial County many years.
New Motorola NEXT supports LTE. As ISSI radios switch from CRIS to other systems. LTE works the same. which most likely be First Net. Also possibility that CHP stop using local system , unless local agencies use ISSI for interoperability??
CHP extenders somewhat fill gap provide HT coverage using CRIS. Mobile radio provides coverage in some remote area. Low band may patch with CRIS some time period??
As units switch , officers will mention to dispatch = no radio or laptop coverage. That helps the build out.
Bay area move very soon. That start switch in areas with solid CRIS OR LTE with 100% ENC.
Toro Pk active , start of Imperial County + some San Diego county coverage= do searches as new sites not posted. Most likely Black Mt & Monument come online & allow those districts to switch CRIS. Slow process.
BLM has used Toro Pk for eastern Imperial County many years.
New Motorola NEXT supports LTE. As ISSI radios switch from CRIS to other systems. LTE works the same. which most likely be First Net. Also possibility that CHP stop using local system , unless local agencies use ISSI for interoperability??
CHP extenders somewhat fill gap provide HT coverage using CRIS. Mobile radio provides coverage in some remote area. Low band may patch with CRIS some time period??
As units switch , officers will mention to dispatch = no radio or laptop coverage. That helps the build out.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
CRIS is allowing other agencies to ISSI in. Not sure if that is happening anywhere yet, but it was specifically mentioned in a meeting and we're considering it. It also does the whole "system of systems" thing that was the original plan behind all this.
iamhere300
Member
I have been deeply involved with three statewide systems, from just some site acquisition to Complaining, hoping, planning, funding, installation (Mnior) training, implementation, acceptance and finally use.
MOSWIN is a great example of how I see the CA system evolving.
MOSWIN started out VHF with 800 overlay, concentrating the overlay in Jefferson City MO. The mobile coverage was great, portable not so great in the cities of KC, STL, and Springfield MO.
Missouri Highway Patrol recommended vehicle extenders. They still use them.
But, then agreements were worked out, and MOSWIN became a "system of systems" and KC, STL, Sprngfield MO/Joplin were tied in through that ISSI magic. It is a GREAT system. I say that from a user viewpoint now. I see a lot of CA planning going that way.
One of the things MO has done unlike most other states, they have NO USER FEES. None. Need on, your agency sends a request for another ID. NO CHARGE.
MO HIPO kept their low band system alive, low band radios in the cars, and have just purchased all new base and repeaters. CA is looking at doing something similiar
MOSWIN is a great example of how I see the CA system evolving.
MOSWIN started out VHF with 800 overlay, concentrating the overlay in Jefferson City MO. The mobile coverage was great, portable not so great in the cities of KC, STL, and Springfield MO.
Missouri Highway Patrol recommended vehicle extenders. They still use them.
But, then agreements were worked out, and MOSWIN became a "system of systems" and KC, STL, Sprngfield MO/Joplin were tied in through that ISSI magic. It is a GREAT system. I say that from a user viewpoint now. I see a lot of CA planning going that way.
One of the things MO has done unlike most other states, they have NO USER FEES. None. Need on, your agency sends a request for another ID. NO CHARGE.
MO HIPO kept their low band system alive, low band radios in the cars, and have just purchased all new base and repeaters. CA is looking at doing something similiar
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Just like how LA-RICS is being built out. Anything new being built out in The State of California will not be in the CLEAR anymore with anything to do with Law Enforcement PERIOD. This includes everything including like Fish and Game and so on. Any badge with a gun means completely gone. The only thing really left in The Los Angeles Basin is LAPD and CHP. There are a few straggling cities still hanging on but they will all be gone by the summer or end of 2024 for sure. LASO is a part of LA-RICS so that's a complete done deal obviously.
As the systems slowly get upgraded in all counties and those smaller counties moving forward its all going down statewide. Please do not hold onto any hope as its over with. The MEDIA is basically screwed like it is in Los Angeles now. Once CRIS takes over and CHP is gone there will be nothing to cover in high speed pursuits in the news media helicopters. There will be nothing to report except fires where communication is still in the clear but nothing else. I work in tech where my own department locks me down to the point where I can't do my job sometimes anymore. Its just the way it is and it will bottle neck somewhere down the road. When and where who knows but it will.
Most communication over radio waves is slowing down slowly anyways due to LTE and MDC terminals in Police and FIRE Rigs anyways. There is no need to communicate over the radio much anyways. Dispatch and car to car units talk by county or cities IT infrastructure using LTE to Microsoft Teams or Cellular Text or phone calls back to the station and so on. Anything really juicy is not going to be put over the airwaves anyways either in the clear or an encrypted radio. In these days with all of these attorneys and the liability less talking over any infrastructure is a NO NO anyways and its best for your own protection legally at the end of the day. You still have your whole department listening so everyone wants to be private anyways. Just text back and forth. Or use those encrypted iphone apps now for complete privacy so nothing can be subpoena ever down the road. Heh buddy switch over to the encrypted TAC so we can discuss our lovely evening. NOPE.
Obviously if you and your partner are meeting for dinner and then driving to the local massage parlor for a good massage that is not going over a clear or an encrypted tac channels anyways as its all being recorded anyways to be-able to go back down the road and retrieve any communciaiton to hold against you so your employer can give you a pink slip. All vehicles are all GPS anyways. Jesus. Not like the old days
The best solution is simplex AES-256 VHF portable at 5 watts or a mobile VHF at 50 to a 100 watts simplex AES-256 end to end. Safest form of communication in the whole wide world period. GOD is the only one that can listen in. Pretty sweet once you start to think along these lines. Beats a cell phone all day long.
As the systems slowly get upgraded in all counties and those smaller counties moving forward its all going down statewide. Please do not hold onto any hope as its over with. The MEDIA is basically screwed like it is in Los Angeles now. Once CRIS takes over and CHP is gone there will be nothing to cover in high speed pursuits in the news media helicopters. There will be nothing to report except fires where communication is still in the clear but nothing else. I work in tech where my own department locks me down to the point where I can't do my job sometimes anymore. Its just the way it is and it will bottle neck somewhere down the road. When and where who knows but it will.
Most communication over radio waves is slowing down slowly anyways due to LTE and MDC terminals in Police and FIRE Rigs anyways. There is no need to communicate over the radio much anyways. Dispatch and car to car units talk by county or cities IT infrastructure using LTE to Microsoft Teams or Cellular Text or phone calls back to the station and so on. Anything really juicy is not going to be put over the airwaves anyways either in the clear or an encrypted radio. In these days with all of these attorneys and the liability less talking over any infrastructure is a NO NO anyways and its best for your own protection legally at the end of the day. You still have your whole department listening so everyone wants to be private anyways. Just text back and forth. Or use those encrypted iphone apps now for complete privacy so nothing can be subpoena ever down the road. Heh buddy switch over to the encrypted TAC so we can discuss our lovely evening. NOPE.
Obviously if you and your partner are meeting for dinner and then driving to the local massage parlor for a good massage that is not going over a clear or an encrypted tac channels anyways as its all being recorded anyways to be-able to go back down the road and retrieve any communciaiton to hold against you so your employer can give you a pink slip. All vehicles are all GPS anyways. Jesus. Not like the old days
The best solution is simplex AES-256 VHF portable at 5 watts or a mobile VHF at 50 to a 100 watts simplex AES-256 end to end. Safest form of communication in the whole wide world period. GOD is the only one that can listen in. Pretty sweet once you start to think along these lines. Beats a cell phone all day long.
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d119
Patch & Channels Clear...
This isn't helping your hypertension... Sidetone paranoia, perhaps? (Bonus points if you get the reference, and EXTREMELY FEW will).
I love this stuff - everything is decided by armchair engineers on forums like this.
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Would you want me to lie to everyone including you or just give you the most honest brutal truth.
If you have been in California and radio comms for a bunch of decades now the errosion has gone southbound not northbound. I just like to speak the truth as its the best policy. Have a Happy New Year.
Have you guys Noticed that CRIS SYS added 2 new CHP talk Groups ? CHP VALLEY GOLD e lower case encrypted and CHP VALLEY GOLD TAC A, e lower case encryption. What does this mean ? Are they finally going to move ? Also I been monitoring the system and haven't heard any traffic I'm using the Santiago Peak system. Maybe someone can help. Thanks
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Those are some of the talkgroups that are planned to be used during the North Sacramento CHP CRIS test period. They are the first area and if it goes well they plan to add other areas one by one.
You most likely won’t hear anything on Santiago Peak on those talkgroups since no actual subscribers would be affiliated to that site on those talkgroups.
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Honestly there is no reason to even pay attention to this statewide system as everything will meet DOJ mandates and CHP will be gone in time. It's already been talked about in previous posts last year. It will be a slow process until everyting gets going in full motion. They will move from the North and start in Sacramento and slowly move southbound to the San Diego area and then this will be one more big statewide public safety agency completley gone. Also, any other city or county that pays and subscribes to this system will be a 100 percent Big E too. Nothing moving forward in California will be open when moving from VHF or UHF conventional to a P25 Trunking System. Yes we are talking about the whole Central Valley of California too. You see all those cities and counties in between Sacramento and LA. All will be gone too.
There is nothing else to say moving forward about this CRIS system. Like I said in previous posts is to move out of California if this is something that you like to hear and this is a nice hobby for you. California is NOT a friendly state anymore with radio comms with public safety. Its over with. Fire Department comms are slowly making traction to be gone too with P25 Digital Trunked Systems.
You have already seen this with Orange County and PSEC is gaining traction with Fire Comms moving over to their fully encyrpted countwide system too. Trust me there has been some big losses over the past 10 years with lots of cities and counties and good departments to listen to but CHP will be the barn burner for sure. Hands down this will be the biggest loss to The Whole State of California.
There is nothing else to say moving forward about this CRIS system. Like I said in previous posts is to move out of California if this is something that you like to hear and this is a nice hobby for you. California is NOT a friendly state anymore with radio comms with public safety. Its over with. Fire Department comms are slowly making traction to be gone too with P25 Digital Trunked Systems.
You have already seen this with Orange County and PSEC is gaining traction with Fire Comms moving over to their fully encyrpted countwide system too. Trust me there has been some big losses over the past 10 years with lots of cities and counties and good departments to listen to but CHP will be the barn burner for sure. Hands down this will be the biggest loss to The Whole State of California.
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I watched the video and they have are all getting the new Motorola NEXT Touchscreen radios. Game Changer for LTE and Wifi and Bluetooth and so on. Back end is an APX 8000 radio and the OS is an Android based operating system. Quad band too.
Basically the radio is almost close to even better than a cell phone. Think about sending OTAP and OTAR on the fly in seconds or minutes. Also, the apps that are coming so they can run any Motorola applications that will come with the APX NEXT.
Basically if they are in NorCal area and are not getting a good LMR site tower then it switches over on the fly to the local LTE cell phone towers and pushed to their P 25 network via the cloud or MPS circuit thru a provider. Beautiful for them but not for the California listerner anymore. The back end technology is going to be absolutely almost hand touch free. More pushing of apps and OTAP and OTAR and creating containers for certain areas and push as needed to update the code-plug and OTAR the radio. No more hand touch unless there is a hardware issue that is causing the failure.
Basically a Smart Phone with LMR. Send Firmware and Software updates on the fly. Looks like County of Sacramento our Capital is switching or has been switched already and is patched via VHF Lowband. They might just be fully on CRIS and that's it moving forward. Don't look for anythying moving forward to be in the favor of the public. Great technology coming. Been doing this in IT for years now. Can't hand touch thousands of computer workstations or laptops. Automation has been in place for years now. LMR and Motorola and Harris have finally joined the higher end of technology now and are getting up to speed with major companies and big corporations who have spent the big bucks to secure their equipment.
Basically work smarter and not harder. Think about not having to hand touch 20 to 30K radios and can push firmware updates and code plugs updates on the fly. Stream line it and only hand touch from time to time with radios that are just not communicating right or have issues with the hardware. Then you have a tech have them ship it in and swap it out with a HOT swap on the fly. Beautiful. CrowdStrike was a big test this last week. I can say moving forward things are going to get tighter. Trust me I had to help fix thousands of users when they got hit with the CrowdStrike file. Gamer changer big time in the minds of everyone in technology. Biggest IT outage in history. Wake up call for everyone.
Basically the radio is almost close to even better than a cell phone. Think about sending OTAP and OTAR on the fly in seconds or minutes. Also, the apps that are coming so they can run any Motorola applications that will come with the APX NEXT.
Basically if they are in NorCal area and are not getting a good LMR site tower then it switches over on the fly to the local LTE cell phone towers and pushed to their P 25 network via the cloud or MPS circuit thru a provider. Beautiful for them but not for the California listerner anymore. The back end technology is going to be absolutely almost hand touch free. More pushing of apps and OTAP and OTAR and creating containers for certain areas and push as needed to update the code-plug and OTAR the radio. No more hand touch unless there is a hardware issue that is causing the failure.
Basically a Smart Phone with LMR. Send Firmware and Software updates on the fly. Looks like County of Sacramento our Capital is switching or has been switched already and is patched via VHF Lowband. They might just be fully on CRIS and that's it moving forward. Don't look for anythying moving forward to be in the favor of the public. Great technology coming. Been doing this in IT for years now. Can't hand touch thousands of computer workstations or laptops. Automation has been in place for years now. LMR and Motorola and Harris have finally joined the higher end of technology now and are getting up to speed with major companies and big corporations who have spent the big bucks to secure their equipment.
Basically work smarter and not harder. Think about not having to hand touch 20 to 30K radios and can push firmware updates and code plugs updates on the fly. Stream line it and only hand touch from time to time with radios that are just not communicating right or have issues with the hardware. Then you have a tech have them ship it in and swap it out with a HOT swap on the fly. Beautiful. CrowdStrike was a big test this last week. I can say moving forward things are going to get tighter. Trust me I had to help fix thousands of users when they got hit with the CrowdStrike file. Gamer changer big time in the minds of everyone in technology. Biggest IT outage in history. Wake up call for everyone.
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Robbie1984
Member
Here in South Australia CFS,SES,SAAS,MFS, SAPOL and Forestry were all on the VHF high band from 70's to early 000's our 2 fire services and Woods & Forest shared common channels this worked all well and good until the State Emergency Service (secondary rescue service) complained about not being able to talk directly to their main comms center in Adelaide this was backed up by the above agencies after a large forest fire in late February 2000 revealed a massive disparity in interagency communications with CFS operating on upper channels and forestry only using channel 30 in the allocation itself
This resulted in a trunked network much likened to the CRIS system you guys are seeing being rolled out over there being introduced here in South Australia which was fully implemented in late 2000/early 2001 initially it was an open analogue system where all agencies except for police, fisheries and transport/roads crews and CFS still retained the old 163 MHz setup for fire ground communications this was later made defunct with full migration to what is now widely known as the South Australian Government Radio Network
I was lucky enough to have seen the SAGRN being rolled out and equipment used before hanging up my boots as a volunteer and operate as a private operator the unique part is that we can still listen to police, ambulance and even Australian Army as the SAGRN has a set of multi agency talk-groups that allow inter-agency communications in full open P25 voice without encryption
This resulted in a trunked network much likened to the CRIS system you guys are seeing being rolled out over there being introduced here in South Australia which was fully implemented in late 2000/early 2001 initially it was an open analogue system where all agencies except for police, fisheries and transport/roads crews and CFS still retained the old 163 MHz setup for fire ground communications this was later made defunct with full migration to what is now widely known as the South Australian Government Radio Network
I was lucky enough to have seen the SAGRN being rolled out and equipment used before hanging up my boots as a volunteer and operate as a private operator the unique part is that we can still listen to police, ambulance and even Australian Army as the SAGRN has a set of multi agency talk-groups that allow inter-agency communications in full open P25 voice without encryption
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