Church security radios

[buddrousa]

@KQ7D
As a security agent, retired Firefighter and 2way radio technician I will say this.
Using any type of Family Service GMRS radios is as usless as SCREEN DOORS on SUBMARINES.
1. You are talking Security. Why would you want it to be in the clear for all to hear? Apply for a SIMPLEX Licenese buy some decent used commercial digital radios turn on ENCRYPTION and have clear secure communications.
2. Would you install a ALARM SYSTEM and post the USER CODE on the Entry Door?

 

[KV4BL]

Not FCC type accepted but for cheap, simple, and replaceable, look at the WLN KDC1. For about $20, it is small, light, and comes with 1 battery and charger. Can be set to FRS/GMRS frequencies with software. You will need to reprogram them as they come packed on a variety of land mobile/business frequencies. Should cover a large church and grounds, well.

 

[WA0CBW]

Specifically.......
FRS and GMRS share the same frequencies including the GMRS repeater output frequencies, except FRS does not have access to the GMRS repeater input frequencies. GMRS requires a license available to individuals and family related units. FRS is available to individuals and business and is "licensed by rule". FRS and GMRS have unique transmitter power levels and bandwidth limitations.
BB

 

[buddrousa]

And it opens the door to your communications.
You might as well remove the doors to your church and put a flashing sign out front that says come on in.

 

[alcahuete]

Security issues (definitely valid) completely aside, you also have to contend with the local kids plaing GI Joe, etc., and all the interference that comes with it on FRS/GMRS. Part 90 exists for a reason. You can still have intentional interference on Part 90, but it's the unintentional interference on FRS/GMRS that will ruin your day.

For absolute complete security, DTR is the way to go, and no need for coordination or a license. Programmed properly, nobody is going to listen to you, nobody is going to interfere with you. You get the potential ISM interference, but the DTRs cut right through that crap.

 

[bill4long]

GMRS is not for businesses and Churches are businesses, "non profit" perhaps, but still businesses. Get a part 90 license.

Businesses and churches can use GMRS as long as everyone using the radios are covered by some license, which would probably mean everyone has to get individually licensed.

 

[KQ7D]

I appreciate ALL responses here and thank you all for all the perspective and guidance.

If it was up to me, everyone would get licensed and we'd have a wide range of options. But even if everyone was licensed (HAM or GMRS) we'd still have vulnerabilities.

I'm going to start by looking at the DTRs. I may come back to this thread with additional questions. I very much appreciate the depth of knowledge and experience in this forum and on this amazing site.

 

[KQ7D]

What model DTR? The ones I'm looking at are quite expensive. We're going to need at least 10, and have a pretty scant budget. The budget isn't a reason not to pursue, but I'll have to "sell" the solution and can use all the justification I can get.

Should I be looking at the 700 at this point?

 

[alcahuete]

What model DTR? The ones I'm looking at are quite expensive. We're going to need at least 10, and have a pretty scant budget. The budget isn't a reason not to pursue, but I'll have to "sell" the solution and can use all the justification I can get.

DTR600 and DTR700 are the new ones. The price is going to be on-par with other cheaper business radios. If you don't mind used, the old DTR650 and DTR550 radios can be picked up pretty cheap sometimes. They use old cell phone batteries, so those are very easy to find online pretty cheap. 550s can be picked up used almost any day of the week for under $100 each. There was a time where I bought probably a dozen 650s for about $50 each.

 

[alcahuete]

TBH, I would buy 2 550s and see how they work for you. If they don't, throw them back up on eBay. Since nobody really explained it, the DTR radios are FHSS (Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum). That means they jump around frequencies automatically in the lower 900 MHz range, and are also digital. Because of that, you cannot monitor these radios on a scanner at all. You can't monitor them on anything, unless you have another DTR radio with the same code. So they are incredibly secure.

Secondly, 900 MHz FHSS works great within buildings, on cruise ships, etc. So indoor use really excels on those radios.

 

[KQ7D]

TBH, I would buy 2 550s and see how they work for you. If they don't, throw them back up on eBay. Since nobody really explained it, the DTR radios are FHSS (Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum). That means they jump around frequencies automatically in the lower 900 MHz range, and are also digital. Because of that, you cannot monitor these radios on a scanner at all. You can't monitor them on anything, unless you have another DTR radio with the same code. So they are incredibly secure.

Secondly, 900 MHz FHSS works great within buildings, on cruise ships, etc. So indoor use really excels on those radios.

We don't need scanning capability; just direct, secure, communications on the same frequency.

 

[K4EET]

We don't need scanning capability; just direct, secure, communications on the same frequency.

Frequency hopping is not scanning. DTR radios frequency hop automatically very quickly during the conversation. Nobody will notice the frequency hopping. It is transparent to the user.

 

[prcguy]

@KQ7D
As a security agent, retired Firefighter and 2way radio technician I will say this.
Using any type of Family Service GMRS radios is as usless as SCREEN DOORS on SUBMARINES.
1. You are talking Security. Why would you want it to be in the clear for all to hear? Apply for a SIMPLEX Licenese buy some decent used commercial digital radios turn on ENCRYPTION and have clear secure communications.
2. Would you install a ALARM SYSTEM and post the USER CODE on the Entry Door?

Why would a church need encryption? Probably 95% or more of all business radios including security guard radios are in the clear, no encryption. 2w FRS radios will cover the campus of all but the largest mega churches and are inexpensive and work fine using DPL/DCS codes to keep any neighborhood kids with bubble pack radios at bay. Been there and done that for many years with perfect success.

 

[alcahuete]

Why would a church need encryption? Probably 95% or more of all business radios including security guard radios are in the clear, no encryption. 2w FRS radios will cover the campus of all but the largest mega churches and are inexpensive and work fine using DPL/DCS codes to keep any neighborhood kids with bubble pack radios at bay. Been there and done that for many years with perfect success.

The biggest reason is so people don't mess with you. Any scanner or SDR will immediately spit out the DPL/CTCSS code, and then you're done. That's the biggest reason to use encryption. All my Part 90 repeaters/radios have RAS and AES-256. Don't have anything to hide, just don't want to be messed with. Way too many Baofengs out there these days. Another alternative is of course NXDN or P25, because that eliminates the majority of folks looking to interfere using their $10 'feng. But rolling analog with PL/DCS went out of style 10+ years ago. Just doesn't make sense anymore.

I know you are well-aware, but PL/DCS does not get rid of the actual interference. Sure, you might not hear them, but their signal is still there and interfering with yours. The OP kinda looks like he's in the middle of nowhere, but in a place like Vegas, there are days GMRS is damn near unusable, PL or not.

 

[MUTNAV]

I don't suppose the church has a (largish) school associated with it, that uses radios? That might make life easier to see what they do.

Thanks
Joel

 

[prcguy]

The biggest reason is so people don't mess with you. Any scanner or SDR will immediately spit out the DPL/CTCSS code, and then you're done. That's the biggest reason to use encryption. All my Part 90 repeaters/radios have RAS and AES-256. Don't have anything to hide, just don't want to be messed with. Way too many Baofengs out there these days. Another alternative is of course NXDN or P25, because that eliminates the majority of folks looking to interfere using their $10 'feng. But rolling analog with PL/DCS went out of style 10+ years ago. Just doesn't make sense anymore.

I know you are well-aware, but PL/DCS does not get rid of the actual interference. Sure, you might not hear them, but their signal is still there and interfering with yours. The OP kinda looks like he's in the middle of nowhere, but in a place like Vegas, there are days GMRS is damn near unusable, PL or not.

I'll point out again, probably 95% of commercial business radio users do not have encryption. Encryption is nice but not legal on FRS, which at worst has other half watt or 2 watt simplex radios on it and not like GMRS repeaters clobbering your simplex comms. For a church that relies on donations, FRS is cheap, works ok and no license needed.

 

[redbeard]

Keep in mind that while the DTR radios may work you will have vendor lock-in going that route. People who may want to buy their own radio might not like the price to buy in. Analog is always interoperable.

A few multi-unit chargers filled with UHF CP200D using Trbo and enhanced privacy would work well along with a cache of speaker mics and/or surveillance earpiece headsets. Extra channels can be programmed in analog for interop with other radio types. This is the typical setup for many festival/concert/show touring groups. The radios work well and are easy/non-confusing.

 

[buddrousa]

@prcguy
Because Security is not a CHILDS TOY. Most all Commerical Radios of today have it included why not use it? The same reason this new DIY home security system is cheap and hackable with a $99 item you can buy on AMAZON. If you are trying to secure your Church then secure it and not use CHILDRENS TOYS sold at Walmart for anybody to hear or interfere with them. Would you use the Bargain Brand 2 tumbler locks on your home doors that can be picked with a Bobbie Pin? Like I said buy used Commerical 2way Radios get a Commerical SIMPLEX License turn on the FREE ENCRYPTION and have a very good SECURE COMMUNICATION SYSTEM.

 

[KQ7D]

I don't suppose the church has a (largish) school associated with it, that uses radios? That might make life easier to see what they do.

Thanks
Joel

This church does not.

 

[KQ7D]

Does anyone here have experience with the Motorola DLR series? Someone recommended them as a smaller, slightly less expensive version of the DTR series.