Church security radios

[PACNWDude]

+1 on using DTR series Motorola radios, if coverage will work. They get about a mile in the open and around a typical church/school campus reliably. I put several schools on DTR410 radios a decade ago and they are still working for them (on newer batteries which seem to last about 4-5 years before needing replacement).

DTR500/650 with longer antennas get better range, but I went with 410's as the fixed shorter antenna meant less likely to be damaged. My end user in the first school also did not want a scanner (or person with a "cheap Radio Shack" scanner), to be able to listen in to them. This school has about a dozen buildings in a city block, but part of that block was donated to the school, as long as it was left open to the public for baseball and basketball games. This means a campus where the public can often be seen flying kites, launching model rockets, and operating remote controlled cars. Decent size area but only a few brick buildings, and then portable classroom buildings in a city block size area, so great radio coverage, and frequency hopping (too fast for most scanners).

Cost of used and "new old stock" might make it practical. Having a reliable radio system that does not require a license (uses Industrial, Scientific, Medical [ISM] band), might be useful. This school had a recently expired UHF license and CP200 series UHF Motorola radios, but with a license it meant that they could have their frequencies listed as public knowledge. ISM band can be very secure if you do it right, in a reliable radio.

 

[nokones]

Does anyone here have experience with the Motorola DLR series? Someone recommended them as a smaller, slightly less expensive version of the DTR series.

I have experience with both radios. My Porsche Club Region uses the DLR 1020 for their race track events and it gets the job somewhat done. The DLR radios are not the right radio for noisy environments.

DLRs are less expensive and with less channel capacity (DLR 1020 2 Ch. & DLR 1060 6 Ch.), depending which model you buy, than the DTR 700. The DTR has a 50 channel capacity and is a little more rugged and has a display and little more volume output. The DTR 700 functions more like a normal portable radio. The DLRs have no display and the control buttons are ackward.

The accessory connector on the DLRs are not very robust and will not take a lot of abuse, you need to be careful plugging and unplugging the accessories.

I believe the DLRs are in the $200 range and the DTR 700 ($400+) cost me almost $575 with extra accessories (speaker microphone, battery, and the optional antenna) including shipping and sales tax.

I am used to using professional radios like the XTS 5000 series radio and the respective audio accessories. When I am officiating the race events, I found the DLR radios were not the right fit for me for several reasons so I bought my own DTR 700 radio and accessories and they have been working out great and to my liking.

I didn't buy the DTR 700 for the channel capacity. I bought the DTR 700 radio for the better audio out output and the better and available radio accessories.

The radio coverage is usually good for about a mile or so out in the open.

 

[MTS2000des]

Most of the schools here have the ProTalk Nexedge radios. They can be programmed for repeater operation and a few of our schools have Nexedge repeaters. The basic encryption is enough to keep the CCR bandits away and kids from listening in. They also work with Icom iDAS radios in NXDN as well as analog and a few schools bought Icoms. With a low power repeater, they saturate a large high school with 3 floors with reliable on hip portable coverage.

 

[KQ7D]

I have experience with both radios. My Porsche Club Region uses the DLR 1020 for their race track events and it gets the job somewhat done. The DLR radios are not the right radio for noisy environments.

DLRs are less expensive and with less channel capacity (DLR 1020 2 Ch. & DLR 1060 6 Ch.), depending which model you buy, than the DTR 700. The DTR has a 50 channel capacity and is a little more rugged and has a display and little more volume output. The DTR 700 functions more like a normal portable radio. The DLRs have no display and the control buttons are ackward.

The accessory connector on the DLRs are not very robust and will not take a lot of abuse, you need to be careful plugging and unplugging the accessories.

I believe the DLRs are in the $200 range and the DTR 700 ($400+) cost me almost $575 with extra accessories (speaker microphone, battery, and the optional antenna) including shipping and sales tax.

I am used to using professional radios like the XTS 5000 series radio and the respective audio accessories. When I am officiating the race events, I found the DLR radios were not the right fit for me for several reasons so I bought my own DTR 700 radio and accessories and they have been working out great and to my liking.

I didn't buy the DTR 700 for the channel capacity. I bought the DTR 700 radio for the better audio out output and the better and available radio accessories.

The radio coverage is usually good for about a mile or so out in the open.

View attachment 168545

That's good info to know about the audio output of the DLR vs. DTR. Audio during church service is always an issue, and only somewhat mitigated by earpieces.

Funding is a challenge of course, but I'm pushing for the best tool for the job. And given the noted reliability of the Motorola units, I think it's worth the investment.

 

[lamarrsy]

Another solution could be “Network Radios” (or “POC” for PTT Over Cellular).

No licensing required, cost can be less than 200$ per radio, they’re impossible to eavesdrop, and the coverage is… well, the whole world if you need.

They work on the data layer of cell phone networks, be it 3G, 4G LTE or even 5G for the newer ones (but expect higher cost). They’re also no battery hog, as they use processing power (and battery drain) only when communicating.

Even if you would “key-down” and transmit 24/7 for a whole month, it would amount to less than 1Gb of data on the cell network. So expect monthly fee of anywhere from 5 to 20$/month/unit (for 1Gb/month data-only SIM cards) depending on your provider.

You could get-by with the free to use Zello app on these Network Radios (and create your own channel(s)) or subscribe to their commercial ZelloWorks offering.

Or you could go full-swing with cellular commercial offerings of “PTT over cellular” with Sonim and alike ptt rugged cellphones.

But for my use case, I am using a Uniwa F40 with Zello free version since almost 5 years now and the battery life and coverage is fantastic (even beats my iPhone in the neck-of-the-wood areas, as it has an external physical cell antenna).

 

[cubn]

I have both DLR1020 and DTR650 radios with long antennas. I find the range to be nearly the same. Using the stubby DTR650 antennas cuts the range by about half.

 

[KQ7D]

Another solution could be “Network Radios” (or “POC” for PTT Over Cellular).

No licensing required, cost can be less than 200$ per radio, they’re impossible to eavesdrop, and the coverage is… well, the whole world if you need.

They work on the data layer of cell phone networks, be it 3G, 4G LTE or even 5G for the newer ones (but expect higher cost). They’re also no battery hog, as they use processing power (and battery drain) only when communicating.

Even if you would “key-down” and transmit 24/7 for a whole month, it would amount to less than 1Gb of data on the cell network. So expect monthly fee of anywhere from 5 to 20$/month/unit (for 1Gb/month data-only SIM cards) depending on your provider.

You could get-by with the free to use Zello app on these Network Radios (and create your own channel(s)) or subscribe to their commercial ZelloWorks offering.

Or you could go full-swing with cellular commercial offerings of “PTT over cellular” with Sonim and alike ptt rugged cellphones.

But for my use case, I am using a Uniwa F40 with Zello free version since almost 5 years now and the battery life and coverage is fantastic (even beats my iPhone in the neck-of-the-wood areas, as it has an external physical cell antenna).

I used my Inrico T320 for Zello and it works pretty well. But others use their Android device or iPhone and we get mixed integration results.

 

[nokones]

I used my Inrico T320 for Zello and it works pretty well. But others use their Android device or iPhone and we get mixed integration results.

The Wave system. This system requires cellular coverage. As long you have cellular coverage you will be able to communicate PT-T all over the country. The cost for the Motorola mobile and portable units are not too expensive but each unit requires a subscription service.

 

[mmckenna]

Good point above, if your church has adequate WiFi, then some WiFi radios would be a good option. Utilize the infrastructure that already exists, skip the FCC licensing, and make life easier for everyone.

While the DTR radios are a good option, don't get stuck on the Motorola brand name. There are a number of companies that make WiFi, LTE and LMR radios that are just as good as anything Motorola makes, and the church will pay less. If cost is an issue, don't let brand names blind you.

 

[KQ7D]

Good point above, if your church has adequate WiFi, then some WiFi radios would be a good option. Utilize the infrastructure that already exists, skip the FCC licensing, and make life easier for everyone.

While the DTR radios are a good option, don't get stuck on the Motorola brand name. There are a number of companies that make WiFi, LTE and LMR radios that are just as good as anything Motorola makes, and the church will pay less. If cost is an issue, don't let brand names blind you.

Because church is in a public high school, we are not allowed to use the WiFi (security reasons). Zello would likely be more effective if we could.

I agree on the brand issue, especially given the cost of the Motorolas. What other brands exist that use 900MHz?

 

[nokones]

With Motorola, Harris, and Kenwood, it is a given that you're getting a good product. Any other brand, I would recommend that you do your homework and weigh the capabilities and features of each Radio brand and what accessories are available (batteries and audio components, etc.) that will support those particular brands. If there is no or very minimum support with accessories that should be a clue to stay away from.

Saving a dime or two today make cost you a dollar or two in the very near future. Sometimes buying cheap is not always cheap, it could be very costly in the long run.

You should select the product that meets your operational needs and will support your needs into the future and then procure that product with the lowest cost as your second deciding factor.

 

[nokones]

Also, keep in mind that any network based radio device that is PT-T/POC LTE or Wave, will require a monthly subscription service with recurring monthly/annually payments. If your organization has a robust Wi-Fi system with good coverage a Wi-Fi based device may be a solution but would only work on that system unless you have passwords/permission for other systems.

 

[mmckenna]

Because church is in a public high school, we are not allowed to use the WiFi (security reasons). Zello would likely be more effective if we could.

OK, so WiFi is not an option.

LTE coverage using PTT over Cellular would be something to consider. Likely everyone has a smart phone, and adding a suitable PTToC app would be free and easy. Add a headset and you're good to go. No worry of someone losing an expensive walkie talkie.

I agree on the brand issue, especially given the cost of the Motorolas. What other brands exist that use 900MHz?

FHSS is going to pretty much limit you to the Motorola line. I think Retevis sells some digital 900MHz radios that use the ISM band, so license by rule.

If you go the LMR route, Kenwood NX-1300 would be a good option. Probably well outside your budget, but I've got about 70 of them running at work, in both DMR and Analog mode, and they've been good solid radios. They'll outlast the Cheap Chinese Radios by a long ways. But consider cost of programming software, cable and the Frequency Coordination/licensing costs.

No need to over complicate this. Push To Talk over Cellular is the direction a lot of LMR users are going. Cellular coverage is usually pretty good and it's not the frail network that some want you to think.

 

[KQ7D]

OK, so WiFi is not an option.

LTE coverage using PTT over Cellular would be something to consider. Likely everyone has a smart phone, and adding a suitable PTToC app would be free and easy. Add a headset and you're good to go. No worry of someone losing an expensive walkie talkie.



FHSS is going to pretty much limit you to the Motorola line. I think Retevis sells some digital 900MHz radios that use the ISM band, so license by rule.

If you go the LMR route, Kenwood NX-1300 would be a good option. Probably well outside your budget, but I've got about 70 of them running at work, in both DMR and Analog mode, and they've been good solid radios. They'll outlast the Cheap Chinese Radios by a long ways. But consider cost of programming software, cable and the Frequency Coordination/licensing costs.

No need to over complicate this. Push To Talk over Cellular is the direction a lot of LMR users are going. Cellular coverage is usually pretty good and it's not the frail network that some want you to think.

We use Zello right now and the majority of the team currently uses their Android device or iPhone for Zello. The problem is that the LTE network has some dead zones on campus, hence the overall lack of reliability.

PTT over cellular was my solution in departing from the less reliable (and less secure) GMRS frequency radios we we were using. So the next step will be something like the Motorolas. It's a significant jump in cost, but as mentioned above, you either pay now or pay later. I'd prefer to step into something a little more expensive but a lot more reliable and robust.

 

[mmckenna]

The problem is that the LTE network has some dead zones on campus, hence the overall lack of reliability.

Got it. Consider the costs though. How important is 100% coverage and will you achieve it another radio service with a very limited budget?

It's easy to say that one wants 100% radio coverage 24x7, but it's a different thing to actually pay for that. Most public safety systems are designed around 95% coverage, and they often have budgets in the millions of dollars. For a small church/high school, it's obviously going to be less.

I'd suggest finding someone with a pair of the DTR type radios and giving them a test before spending a lot of money on them.

 

[MUTNAV]

Might something like this work?

https://www.engeniustech.com/engenius-products/single-line-phone-system-freestyl-2/

Thanks
Joel

 

[nokones]

I'm looking for a solid radio for a church security team. We've used the gamut of GMRS and the typical Baofeng-type radios as well as Zello. All have their benefits, but also their limitations. I think UHF radios/frequencies would be the best given the constraints of the buildings within which we work (lots of brick, other signals including WiFi, etc..).

The ICOM IC-F4001 is a consideration, but I'd welcome other suggestions. Not all security members are hams, so these would have to be simple to use and reliable.

Where are you located?

 

[GlobalNorth]

No to FRS. No to GMRS. No to MURS. These are merely 'badges of office, toys to mitigate a long winded sermon, whatever... but not serious communications devices.

Tell your leaders to get encrypted DMR radios.

Why? Attendance at churches is never static. New people visit and might stay, while long timer attendees move away, die, look for another church, etc. You never know who is in the aisles or in the parking lot. There have been legitimate acts of violence visited on various houses of worship and people have been murdered in them.

Everything on FRS, GMRS, MURS, etc is required by the FCC to be 'in the clear'. No inversion, no DES, no AES, etc. Go lease time and portables on a professional DMR service and encryption is yours with no legal headaches. No eavesdroppers, no snoopers, no pranksters on the channel, etc. Most importantly, no violent people can gain access to your comms.

Have one person disseminate the radios, have the people getting them sign for them, and return them back the same day. No taking them home, no non-security people borrowing them for hosting the Christmas pageant, no loaning them out, etc. Keep them locked up in the same place money/any religious items are stored [under significant lock and key]. No personally purchased radios either.

If they do not agree or balk at the expense, walk away. You do not want to be part of a security team that has zero standards, training, or professional gear to keep everyone safe.

 

[prcguy]

No to FRS. No to GMRS. No to MURS. These are merely 'badges of office, toys to mitigate a long winded sermon, whatever... but not serious communications devices.

Tell your leaders to get encrypted DMR radios.

Why? Attendance at churches is never static. New people visit and might stay, while long timer attendees move away, die, look for another church, etc. You never know who is in the aisles or in the parking lot. There have been legitimate acts of violence visited on various houses of worship and people have been murdered in them.

Everything on FRS, GMRS, MURS, etc is required by the FCC to be 'in the clear'. No inversion, no DES, no AES, etc. Go lease time and portables on a professional DMR service and encryption is yours with no legal headaches. No eavesdroppers, no snoopers, no pranksters on the channel, etc. Most importantly, no violent people can gain access to your comms.

Have one person disseminate the radios, have the people getting them sign for them, and return them back the same day. No taking them home, no non-security people borrowing them for hosting the Christmas pageant, no loaning them out, etc. Keep them locked up in the same place money/any religious items are stored [under significant lock and key]. No personally purchased radios either.

If they do not agree or balk at the expense, walk away. You do not want to be part of a security team that has zero standards, training, or professional gear to keep everyone safe.

So is there any evidence of any violent act on any church, synagogue, temple, mosque, etc, involving anyone listening in or using information off church 2-way radios anywhere on this planet at any time in history?

 

[vagrant]

I would just use some radios on FRS with a DPL.

If it really needed to be secure, why not purchase a WiFi router along with some spread out access points connected with the router and use whatever walkie talkie app that works on iOS and Android. One could probably text as well if background noise was an issue. I don't think Zello would be an option if your WiFi is a closed system (no Internet) but otherwise have fun with whatever app that works both platforms. Only dole out the router password to those that need to know.

I would scan the 2.4 MHz channels first in case the church uses wireless mics, or whatever may be close by. Then just set the router to use the weakest signal channel. Also, if anyone complains they can't get Internet access while connected...I thought they were at church.