Cleveland National Forest New Forest Net

[Teotwaki]

That weeks-long SCE failure a few months ago was not on the rough terrain, but instead caused by a TC down on the paved road at the bottom of the hill, not far from the substation, IIRC.

[Add] Looks like it was about a week, in June 2023. How time flies.

Santiago Peak power

Does anyone know anything new about the power failure at Santiago Peak, apparently caused by a traffic collision with a power pole down the hill somewhere? SCE opened the ticket at 0011 on 2023-05-27 and it sat on "Step 1: Outage reported" until today, over 7 days later, when it changed to "Step...

forums.radioreference.com

Yup. That slowdown was both govt and SCE at fault.

However, today’s situation is a different outage and terrain is a big factor

 

[ramal121]

On Cleveland Forest Net there is now a single (under 1000Hz) tone after key up. Don't yet know if it is just Santiago. It can be heard on the link (406.525) too. Will measure the tone's frequency a little later. I think it commenced after the Airport fire started to spread.

When does the tone come up? Generally if back up power is being used it sounds a beep at intervals during a transmission. It would go down the link also to give dispatch or whoever's on the far end a heads up. This is not a PTT release tone (ye ol' roger beep) that is used for a different purpose.

If a site switches from utility to generator the repeater doesn't sense this (unless there is a special configuration or something) and won't send a power loss warning. It will sense a loss of AC and a switch to battery which will trigger the warning. Now I'm speaking in general operational terms and anything can be rigged up to make a special configuration.

If the generator has indeed run out of fuel and the repeater is on battery, those beeps mean that there needs to be a site visit very soon.

 

[Teotwaki]

When does the tone come up? Generally if back up power is being used it sounds a beep at intervals during a transmission. It would go down the link also to give dispatch or whoever's on the far end a heads up. This is not a PTT release tone (ye ol' roger beep) that is used for a different purpose.

If a site switches from utility to generator the repeater doesn't sense this (unless there is a special configuration or something) and won't send a power loss warning. It will sense a loss of AC and a switch to battery which will trigger the warning. Now I'm speaking in general operational terms and anything can be rigged up to make a special configuration.

If the generator has indeed run out of fuel and the repeater is on battery, those beeps mean that there needs to be a site visit very soon.

Th new tone only comes up at unkey and only on the Santiago repeater which is where commercial power for the hill was lost. Anecdote: When a Motorola Quantar repeater with DC power revert option has lost AC power you can program the repeater to produce a tone at unkey. So the USFS repeater can be on batteries plus have a generator on site. If the genset fails the repeater falls back to DC power and uses the programmed unkey tone. I have a Quantar set up this way for on group on Santiago.

 

[Teotwaki]

Today's update - Adding Lookout 68 at High Point, stated they were using tone 5 (Cuyamaca). Lookout 22 was also present.

320R
Black Eagles, Sequoia NF Tribal Crew/Hotshot Wildland Crew (says the Internet)
Brush 288
Camp 31
Comms 22, 26, 27, 28, 29
2Charles1 (Patrol Captain)
2Edward 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12
Engineer 325
Field 31
2King 1 & 5 (canine units)
Lookout 03, 41, 50, 51 57, 62 (Palomar), 10, 21, 86, 87 (KCB591 Boucher Hill), 13, 22, 33, 34, 38, 39, 64, 68 (High Point poss KFX215)
Marauders, IA crew from Antelope Valley
Mountaineer arriving at Alpine
Patrol 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 31, 33, 34, 41, 42
Prevention 24
Ranger 2
Rec 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 31
Trails 21, 25
2Tom 2 (LEO Trainee)
Utility 28, 36

 

[Mikek]

Heard a few interesting callsigns the last 2 nights on the Forest Net:
Zulu 143
Covert ##
They reported the area(s) they were in / traveling to, and that's about it.. "Zulu 143, In Service Lake Forest area"

 

[Teotwaki]

I'm monitoring 406.525 so as to hear more of the other repeater's traffic. Pretty busy morning in Cleveland today. Lock cut off of the Indian TT gate. Replaced only to find a truck stuck up on the trail that three folks spent the night in. LEO King -1 (canine) responding to the location. Patrol 22 and 23 are out. Engine 322 available. I heard Comms 27 out in the forest yesterday but not heard him today.

 

[ecps92]

I'm monitoring 406.525 so as to hear more of the other repeater's traffic. Pretty busy morning in Cleveland today. Lock cut off of the Indian TT gate. Replaced only to find a truck stuck up on the trail that three folks spent the night in. LEO King -1 (canine) responding to the location. Patrol 22 and 23 are out. Engine 322 available. I heard Comms 27 out in the forest yesterday but not heard him today.

is the 406 downlink using a constant PL (and what is it) or does the PL change based on the Repeaters chosen ?

 

[Teotwaki]

is the 406 downlink using a constant PL (and what is it) or does the PL change based on the Repeaters chosen ?

I think you poked me about this once before. I've set up my service monitor and will try to watch the displayed PL frequency/frequencies and report back.

 

[Teotwaki]

I wish I knew how the CNF links network together.

The database lists the available link frequencies in a table and I added in the tone, location or Forest Area
406.225 F Control Link 1
406.275 F Control Link 2
406.325 F Control Link 3
406.350 F Control Link 4
406.3875 F Control Link 5 San Ber 103.5
406.425 F Control Link 6
406.525 F Control Link 7 Santiago 103.5
406.575 F Control Link 8 San Ber 218.1
408.9875 F Control Link 9
409.1875 F Control Link 10 San Ber 103.5
409.3875 F Control Link 11
410.7875 F Control Link 12 San Ber 218.1

 

[Teotwaki]

I entered all of the UHF link frequencies into a scanner and (just once) 406.225 was active. Unknown tone or location.
406.225 F Control Link 1 Active
406.275 F Control Link 2
406.325 F Control Link 3
406.350 F Control Link 4
406.3875 F Control Link 5 San Ber 103.5
406.425 F Control Link 6
406.525 F Control Link 7 Santiago 103.5
406.575 F Control Link 8 San Ber 218.1
408.9875 F Control Link 9
409.1875 F Control Link 10 San Ber 103.5
409.3875 F Control Link 11
410.7875 F Control Link 12 San Ber 218.1

 

[Teotwaki]

On 406.225 I heard a resource ID as OHV2 (new callsign to me) but I believe it to be the Wildomar OHV in CNF.

406.225 keys up when CNF Admin net is keyed up and the link was sending 192.8Hz for PL

406.225 F Control Link 1 CNF Admin 192.8
406.275 F Control Link 2
406.325 F Control Link 3
406.350 F Control Link 4
406.3875 F Control Link 5 San Ber 103.5
406.425 F Control Link 6
406.525 F Control Link 7 Santiago 103.5
406.575 F Control Link 8 San Ber 218.1
408.9875 F Control Link 9
409.1875 F Control Link 10 San Ber 103.5
409.3875 F Control Link 11
410.7875 F Control Link 12 San Ber 218.1

 

[ecps92]

On 406.225 I heard a resource ID as OHV2 (new callsign to me) but I believe it to be the Wildomar OHV in CNF.

406.225 keys up when CNF Admin net is keyed up and the link was sending 192.8Hz for PL

406.225 F Control Link 1 CNF Admin 192.8
406.275 F Control Link 2
406.325 F Control Link 3
406.350 F Control Link 4
406.3875 F Control Link 5 San Ber 103.5
406.425 F Control Link 6
406.525 F Control Link 7 Santiago 103.5
406.575 F Control Link 8 San Ber 218.1
408.9875 F Control Link 9
409.1875 F Control Link 10 San Ber 103.5
409.3875 F Control Link 11
410.7875 F Control Link 12 San Ber 218.1

Thanks for the update(s)

 

[Teotwaki]

Rec 28 & 27 talking simplex on Common 4 - 163.7125 - Tone 16 - 192.8

 

[Teotwaki]

Today's update - Adding OHV2 (Wildomar), Rec 27 & 28, and Trails32

320R
Black Eagles, Sequoia NF Tribal Crew/Hotshot Wildland Crew (says the Internet)
Brush 288
Camp 31
Comms 22, 26, 27, 28, 29
2Charles1 (Patrol Captain)
2Edward 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12
Engineer 325
Field 31
2King 1 & 5 (canine units)
Lookout 03, 41, 50, 51 57, 62 (Palomar), 10, 21, 86, 87 (KCB591 Boucher Hill), 13, 22, 33, 34, 38, 39, 64, 68 (High Point poss KFX215)
Marauders, IA crew from Antelope Valley
Mountaineer arriving at Alpine
OHV2
Patrol 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 31, 33, 34, 41, 42
Prevention 24
Ranger 2
Rec 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 31
Trails 21, 25, 32
2Tom 2 (LEO Trainee)
Utility 28, 36

 

[Teotwaki]

I found a cool topo map viewer for major Radio Comms sites in National Forests

ArcGIS Web Application

usfs.maps.arcgis.com

Welcome to the Forest Service Communications Sites Map Viewer​

The purpose of this map viewer is to provide information on communications sites across the United States that are located on National Forest System Lands and that are managed under Special Use Authorizations.

The map viewer will provide site-specific communications site information, including the location, site designation, and contact information for the local Forest Service office that is responsible for administering the site.

The use of Google Chrome is the preferred Internet browser, some features may not function if other browsers are used.

 

[ecps92]

I found a cool topo map viewer for major Radio Comms sites in National Forests

ArcGIS Web Application

usfs.maps.arcgis.com

Welcome to the Forest Service Communications Sites Map Viewer​

The purpose of this map viewer is to provide information on communications sites across the United States that are located on National Forest System Lands and that are managed under Special Use Authorizations.

The map viewer will provide site-specific communications site information, including the location, site designation, and contact information for the local Forest Service office that is responsible for administering the site.

The use of Google Chrome is the preferred Internet browser, some features may not function if other browsers are used.

Odd it is only reporting for my two NF's the low power/in trouble sites

 

[Teotwaki]

Odd it is only reporting for my two NF's the low power/in trouble sites

Somebody must not have been thorough about populating the database. What are the two sites and the general area. I'd like to see what you are seeing. Thanks!

 

[ecps92]

Somebody must not have been thorough about populating the database. What are the two sites and the general area. I'd like to see what you are seeing. Thanks!

Green Mtns NF and White Mtns NF (VT and NH)
missing a few sites and only those in Low Power are showing...

 

[es93546]

Today's update - Adding OHV2 (Wildomar), Rec 27 & 28, and Trails32

320R
Black Eagles, Sequoia NF Tribal Crew/Hotshot Wildland Crew (says the Internet)
Brush 288
Camp 31
Comms 22, 26, 27, 28, 29
2Charles1 (Patrol Captain)
2Edward 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12
Engineer 325
Field 31
2King 1 & 5 (canine units)
Lookout 03, 41, 50, 51 57, 62 (Palomar), 10, 21, 86, 87 (KCB591 Boucher Hill), 13, 22, 33, 34, 38, 39, 64, 68 (High Point poss KFX215)
Marauders, IA crew from Antelope Valley
Mountaineer arriving at Alpine
OHV2
Patrol 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 31, 33, 34, 41, 42
Prevention 24
Ranger 2
Rec 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 31
Trails 21, 25, 32
2Tom 2 (LEO Trainee)
Utility 28, 36

A couple of comments about the unit identifiers. First, OHV2 would be the OHV unit supervisor on the Trabuco Ranger District. That person would work Ranger District wide, not just at one particular area. There should be other OHV units which would be OHV21, OHV22, etc. Budget cuts may have eliminated these other units, leaving the supervisor working alone. Wildomar might take up most of the workload and OHV2 might only have time to work it without getting out to the rest of the district.

Second, I count 13 LEO's. That must be nice. Up here on the Inyo I believe there is only one, 4 Charles 1. They can't seem to keep the more field going officers positions filled. Especially the position on the Mammoth Ranger District. Housing is a problem in Mammoth Lakes. It was a problem when I moved here in 1988. I sold my 4 bedroom house in Bridgeport and when I brought my equity to Mammoth, it was laughable. I did manage to afford a condo with a small 2 car garage. The asking price for it is now so high that a federal employee could not afford it. The problem with LEO's is pay. A typical GS-9 LEO makes far less than a rookie in a county sheriff's department. Some LEO's in an academy make more than a GS-9. The step increases given out for time in grade don't make up for the difference. The USFS sends an employee to the FLETC (federal LEO academy) and they leave as a fully qualified POST officer. That certificate is quite marketable.

 

[es93546]

I found a cool topo map viewer for major Radio Comms sites in National Forests

ArcGIS Web Application

usfs.maps.arcgis.com

Welcome to the Forest Service Communications Sites Map Viewer​

The purpose of this map viewer is to provide information on communications sites across the United States that are located on National Forest System Lands and that are managed under Special Use Authorizations.

The map viewer will provide site-specific communications site information, including the location, site designation, and contact information for the local Forest Service office that is responsible for administering the site.

The use of Google Chrome is the preferred Internet browser, some features may not function if other browsers are used.

Great find!! A good map for determining ranger district, wilderness and roadless area boundaries as well as finding electronic sites that have special use permits for electronics. I wish there was a similar map with all the Forest Service sites. Some of these special use permit sites also have Forest Service electronics in them, but a Forest Service only site map would be fantastic.