Cleveland National Forest New Forest Net

[prcguy]

referencing the 151.940 MURS comment about Lookouts using it....a lot of times lookouts like to chat with another LO, but not be on a COMM, or otherwise USFS channel where everyone on the Forest can hear it. Even though the general public can hear the MURS frequencies, the USFS radios are not set up for that, to my knowledge.

Lookouts do like to get to know each other, and it is certainly not unknown for romance to blossom between them, as they frequently have like personalities--appreciating the outdoors, etc. The listeners within the agency may be quite attuned to nuances in the dialog of the LO's, and perhaps this "outside" channel gives them some small degree of discretion and isolation from the other employees.

Another possibility, is sometimes they may want the other LO to take a gander at something they have seen, but may be dubious as to what it is they have spotted. This could be an effort to not unnecessarily stir up the whole Forest if it is something quite uncertain. This may be as innocuous as telling the other LO there are a lot of falling stars that night, etc. Or, it could be what they think is a dust cloud, but not a smoke, and they want an opinion from the other LO's, before they get on Forest Net and get stuff rolling.

Why specifically 151.940? Do you think its odd that more than one USFS employee happened to use the same frequency out of the five or so MURS freqs? Why MURS? I find MURS use by anyone very scarce and the above explanation of its use by USFS for "romance" pretty far fetched.

 

[p1879]

I never made the initial report on use of 151.940 at a LO. The poster that made the report implied the MURS frequency was made by volunteers staffing the Lookout. (August 20 post by Peter_911SD)

I just commented on some scenarios that could explain why the Volunteers may want an "outside the agency" communication capability between the Lookouts. So, the alleged use of the frequency , by the volunteers, carries no implication on my part that it was sanctioned by USFS. Far from it--I know of no FMO who would fork out funds for "play radios"

Having worked in Region One, for USFS , I do know of Lookouts there having chats or making visitation arrangements with their dear ones. However, they well knew that the whole District, if not the Forest, were eagerly listening in. In a remote Ranger District , this was frequently grist for the gossip group. San Diego is certainly not the Northern Rockies, so I am out of my depth there. My California experience was confined to being on a CAT I crew for another agency, and I was privy to little radio traffic , except within my crew.

I certainly did speculate as to why the Lookouts might want to use an alternative to standard USFS comms, but the whole 151.940 thing came from a listener there in California. Yes, I specifically noted the use of 151.940--as reported--and made a rather light-hearted guess as to why they were using MURS.

Like a knowledgeable commentator said---Lookouts get lonely. Maybe someone has a better handle on the purpose of these purported communications?

 

[Teotwaki]

Back on topic....

Adding Lookouts 38 & 39 at High Point

320R
Brush 288
Comms 22, 26, 27, 28, 29
2Charles1 (Patrol Captain)
2Edward 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12
Engineer 325
2King 1 & 5 (canine units)
Lookout 03, 41, 50, 51 57, 62 (Palomar), 86 & 87 (KCB591 Boucher Hill), 13, 38, 39 (High Point)
Patrol 21, 22, 23, 24, 33, 34, 41, 42
Prevention 24
Ranger 2
Rec 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 31
Trails 21, 25
2Tom 2 (LEO Trainee)
Utility 28, 36

 

[Teotwaki]

Lookout numbers may not be site specific as I just heard Lookout 62 reporting he was at Boucher Hill.
In the past, I first heard 62 reporting to Palomar.

 

[prcguy]

Lookout numbers may not be site specific as I just heard Lookout 62 reporting he was at Boucher Hill

Im disappointed nobody has unit #s or lookout #s or anything for the reported 151.940 forrest MURS channel.

 

[Teotwaki]

Looking at what I've actually logged I'd think they were assigned per person so that Dispatch knows who they are chatting with

Lookout 03, 41, 50, 51 57, 62 (Palomar), 86 & 87 (KCB591 Boucher Hill), 13 (High Point)

The numbers could be recycled whenever that volunteer leaves the program.

Forgot to say it usually is something broadcast on Forest Net such as "Cleveland, Lookout 62, Boucher Hill"

 

[Teotwaki]

Adding Field 31


320R
Brush 288
Comms 22, 26, 27, 28, 29
2Charles1 (Patrol Captain)
2Edward 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12
Engineer 325
Field 31
2King 1 & 5 (canine units)
Lookout 03, 41, 50, 51 57, 62 (Palomar), 86 & 87 (KCB591 Boucher Hill), 13, 38, 39 (High Point)
Patrol 21, 22, 23, 24, 33, 34, 41, 42
Prevention 24
Ranger 2
Rec 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 31
Trails 21, 25
2Tom 2 (LEO Trainee)
Utility 28, 36

 

[MiCon]

I try to not speculate, so I will simply report what I've monitored.

In 2014, from Corona, CA, on 151.82 I heard "Captain 2" calling Swamper 2 for a sitrep on the saws. That indicates to me that a fire captain on a vegetation fire was calling the swamper (a walking lookout used with fire dozers) for a report on the status of a hand crew using saws.

In 2018, from Sun City, CA, on 151.94 I heard what sounded like a personal conversation. The users were ID'ing as volunteer fire lookouts.

Both locations that I heard these were in the vicinity of CNF.

Someone in a previous post asked why specifically 151.94. Now I'll speculate. Of the five MURS frequencies, two of them are in heavy use in soCal by stores, schools, and businesses (154.57 and 154.6). That leaves three available MURS freqs. Maybe they found 151.94 the least active by other users.

 

[Teotwaki]

Adding Lookout 22 and Patrol 31

320R
Brush 288
Comms 22, 26, 27, 28, 29
2Charles1 (Patrol Captain)
2Edward 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12
Engineer 325
Field 31
2King 1 & 5 (canine units)
Lookout 03, 41, 50, 51 57, 62 (Palomar), 86 & 87 (KCB591 Boucher Hill), 13, 22, 38, 39 (High Point)
Patrol 21, 22, 23, 24, 31, 33, 34, 41, 42
Prevention 24
Ranger 2
Rec 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 31
Trails 21, 25
2Tom 2 (LEO Trainee)
Utility 28, 36

 

[Teotwaki]

Is there a USFS document or NTIA (not FCC) database listing call signs of the USFS? In my search for such things I have run across documents of interest to radio geeks

https://www.nifc.gov/sites/default/files/NIICD/docs/2024_NIRSC_User_Guide_Webview.pdf

Docs are too big to attach so others are here:

NIICD Documents

NIICD documents provides fire personnel with wildland fire communications and avionics documents regarding using, programming, cleaning, coordinating and support for all radio communications.

www.nifc.gov

 

[ecps92]

Is there a USFS document or NTIA (not FCC) database listing call signs of the USFS? In my search for such things I have run across documents of interest to radio geeks

https://www.nifc.gov/sites/default/files/NIICD/docs/2024_NIRSC_User_Guide_Webview.pdf

Docs are too big to attach so others are here:

NIICD Documents

NIICD documents provides fire personnel with wildland fire communications and avionics documents regarding using, programming, cleaning, coordinating and support for all radio communications.

www.nifc.gov

Other than some of the old Federal Monitoring Books that listed them before NTIA went undercovers and only found now
thru some open sources, FOIA requests or Over-The-Air monitorings

 

[Teotwaki]

Other than some of the old Federal Monitoring Books that listed them before NTIA went undercovers and only found now
thru some open sources, FOIA requests or Over-The-Air monitorings

I keep surfing in hopes of something inadvertently left on a public server because I've definitely found some great stuff before.

 

[ecps92]

I keep surfing in hopes of something inadvertently left on a public server because I've definitely found some great stuff before.

Tough part of using the old guides is how accurate is a 1990 call sign. Answer = Depends

Has the original site never moved, or did they move and kept the call or got a new call, and one not in sequence
ie: FBI here in New England - has gotten new RA's - now did they get new calls ? or swap the site info (only extensive monitorings have confirmed those)

Happy Hunting, I do have some of those old guides, if you have specific questions on sites/call signs you need

 

[Teotwaki]

Comms 27 was active this morning. Helicopter 538 headed out to Mojave.

Adding Lookout 33, 34 and I think KFX215 for High Point and adding Patrol 25

320R
Brush 288
Comms 22, 26, 27, 28, 29
2Charles1 (Patrol Captain)
2Edward 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12
Engineer 325
Field 31
2King 1 & 5 (canine units)
Lookout 03, 41, 50, 51 57, 62 (Palomar), 86 & 87 (KCB591 Boucher Hill), 13, 22, 33, 34, 38, 39 (High Point poss KFX215)
Patrol 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 31, 33, 34, 41, 42
Prevention 24
Ranger 2
Rec 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 31
Trails 21, 25
2Tom 2 (LEO Trainee)
Utility 28, 36

 

[Peter_SD911]

Im disappointed nobody has unit #s or lookout #s or anything for the reported 151.940 forrest MURS channel.

I posted that the towers were Boucher, High Point and Los Pinos.
They ID the MURS channel as "The L.B.R" for "Little Black Radio".
They are volunteers and docents.
It sounds like an informal back channel.
This has been in use for a few years now...I posted this also a few years back.

Don't go getting these guys and gals in trouble.

Scan Sexy...on the tower catwalk!

 

[es93546]

Is there a USFS document or NTIA (not FCC) database listing call signs of the USFS? In my search for such things I have run across documents of interest to radio geeks

https://www.nifc.gov/sites/default/files/NIICD/docs/2024_NIRSC_User_Guide_Webview.pdf

Docs are too big to attach so others are here:

NIICD Documents

NIICD documents provides fire personnel with wildland fire communications and avionics documents regarding using, programming, cleaning, coordinating and support for all radio communications.

www.nifc.gov

I have an old Robert Kelty book (plus another author) that listed federal agencies all around the country and their NTIA callsigns, i.e. KMB670 for the Inyo's dispatch center. I was able to get quite a few that were assigned to dispatch. I made data submissions to the RR database for dispatch only, since those are the ones that are used most frequently. In the case of natural resource agencies these don't change very often. I chose to list the dispatch callsigns as those are the most frequently heard. In some cases there were multiple ranger stations listed, but I don't think anyone really cared to have those listed. I had very few, if any, that were listed for the eastern states. In some cases I had too many, e.g. Everglades National Park and didn't know exactly where the dispatch center was located. Unfortunately, I found that there was little interest in field verifying what I submitted as for just a few I wasn't 100% certain.

EDIT: I tried listing the USFS, National Park Service and the BLM. The book listed very few BLM callsigns. My target was the interagency dispatch centers and National Parks that have their own center.

 

[Teotwaki]

I posted that the towers were Boucher, High Point and Los Pinos.
They ID the MURS channel as "The L.B.R" for "Little Black Radio".
They are volunteers and docents.
It sounds like an informal back channel.
This has been in use for a few years now...I posted this also a few years back.

Don't go getting these guys and gals in trouble.

Scan Sexy...on the tower catwalk!

I appreciate the interesting info but the minute you posted it there's a higher risk of some cranky person making it into an issue for the volunteers.

 

[Teotwaki]

"Marauders" - Interesting call sign this morning, maybe from an out of state group? Today stationed at Lake Elsinore

Edit

found this article, maybe their presence is connected to Helo 538's trip to Mojave airport?


From Facebook

U.S. Forest Service - Sierra National Forest

Antelope Valley “Marauders” #4 Wildland Hand Crew Fights Fire on the Lions Fire Like many other colleges across the nation, Antelope Valley College, in Lancaster, CA, offers a fire science degree....

www.facebook.com

U.S. Forest Service - Sierra National Forest​

Antelope Valley “Marauders” #4 Wildland Hand Crew Fights Fire on the Lions Fire
Like many other colleges across the nation, Antelope Valley College, in Lancaster, CA, offers a fire science degree. Unlike the others, however, the college fields one of the only school based wildland fire hand crews in the nation.
And it’s not just any wildland hand crew, but an Initial Attack crew. In the world of wildland fire, IA crews occupy a niche between a regular hand crew and hot shots. This means they are deployable to rapidly unfolding, complex incidents where speed and the ability to carry out advanced level assignments is paramount. It can get dangerous.
In partnership with the Inyo National Forest, the crew recruits directly from its fire science department and spots are limited. Only the top performers in the program make the team.
As a certified IA crew they perform all the same duties and assignments as agency hand crews, including fire line construction, burn out operations, holding and mop up. They also engage in felling hazard trees, scouting fire line, acting as lookouts, cultural resource protection and burned area rehabilitation.
Being IA makes them nationally available resource, which means they get to see a lot of the country. And they get assignments. A busy season, like the ones of the last few years, mean they can rack up work hours totaling over 1,500.
Their work on the Lions Fire came to an end after contingency lines were constructed and the fire was checked in the wilderness. The work days were long, the work was hard, but everyone seemed to be ready for their next assignment. Esprit de Corps.
By Jim Bartlett
Team Rubicon/BLM for USFS

 

[Teotwaki]

Today's updates -

Comms 27 was active again today in the southern parts of CNF.

Adding Lookouts 10 & 21, Black Eagles, Marauders and KBR476

320R
Black Eagles, Sequoia NF Tribal Crew/Hotshot Wildland Crew (says the Internet)
Brush 288
Comms 22, 26, 27, 28, 29
2Charles1 (Patrol Captain)
2Edward 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12
Engineer 325
Field 31
2King 1 & 5 (canine units)
Lookout 03, 41, 50, 51 57, 62 (Palomar), 10, 21, 86, 87 (KCB591 Boucher Hill), 13, 22, 33, 34, 38, 39 (High Point poss KFX215)
Mauraders, IA crew from Antelope Valley
Patrol 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 31, 33, 34, 41, 42
Prevention 24
Ranger 2
Rec 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 31
Trails 21, 25
2Tom 2 (LEO Trainee)
Utility 28, 36

Heard a call sign KBR476 but missed the location.

 

[es93546]

"Marauders" - Interesting call sign this morning, maybe from an out of state group? Today stationed at Lake Elsinore

Edit

found this article, maybe their presence is connected to Helo 538's trip to Mojave airport?


From Facebook

U.S. Forest Service - Sierra National Forest

Antelope Valley “Marauders” #4 Wildland Hand Crew Fights Fire on the Lions Fire Like many other colleges across the nation, Antelope Valley College, in Lancaster, CA, offers a fire science degree....

www.facebook.com

U.S. Forest Service - Sierra National Forest​

Antelope Valley “Marauders” #4 Wildland Hand Crew Fights Fire on the Lions Fire
Like many other colleges across the nation, Antelope Valley College, in Lancaster, CA, offers a fire science degree. Unlike the others, however, the college fields one of the only school based wildland fire hand crews in the nation.
And it’s not just any wildland hand crew, but an Initial Attack crew. In the world of wildland fire, IA crews occupy a niche between a regular hand crew and hot shots. This means they are deployable to rapidly unfolding, complex incidents where speed and the ability to carry out advanced level assignments is paramount. It can get dangerous.
In partnership with the Inyo National Forest, the crew recruits directly from its fire science department and spots are limited. Only the top performers in the program make the team.
As a certified IA crew they perform all the same duties and assignments as agency hand crews, including fire line construction, burn out operations, holding and mop up. They also engage in felling hazard trees, scouting fire line, acting as lookouts, cultural resource protection and burned area rehabilitation.
Being IA makes them nationally available resource, which means they get to see a lot of the country. And they get assignments. A busy season, like the ones of the last few years, mean they can rack up work hours totaling over 1,500.
Their work on the Lions Fire came to an end after contingency lines were constructed and the fire was checked in the wilderness. The work days were long, the work was hard, but everyone seemed to be ready for their next assignment. Esprit de Corps.
By Jim Bartlett
Team Rubicon/BLM for USFS

On the Inyo National Forest their identifier is "Crew 4."