Codeplug, ASK and whatever else questions.

[nikronzo]

Yes, I will be upgrading the flash to R20.01.00
Working down the tree, all looks good to this point. (Just the first pass mind you.)
A we step the right way in the codeplug, don't ask me what button I pushed to get this far.
I was able to enter my 700Mhz RX control channels with no error but hit a block wall with the TX.
See the screenshots:
I goofed with the offset, changed to - and still the TX error. I thought P25 control channels were simplex ?
I guess I am not beyond needing help with this

change your offset sign to +, change your Tx offset to 30MHz, thats the bandplan for 700.
plus, you are using depot for programming, if you dont brick the radio yourself, the sysadmin is going to do it for you.

I think you need to do a lot more research of the NAS methodology before you upload that plug to the radio and it affilates.

 

[wgbecks]

I found a few bugs in CPS including Depot.

What bugs? It's clear that you don't have an understanding of the technology used in a trunked radio system and are more than likely to going to get yourself into serious trouble. Get a scanner or go back to DSDPlus or use another software application like OP25, SDR Trunk, or UT.

 

[K2NEC]

Heed to the advice of some other users on here OP, get a scanner.

 

[mbnv992]

I was gonna say get a scanner long ago in this thread. You are definitely going to compromise a system / wind up getting your radio bricked at this point if you haven’t already.
I wish xts5000’s weren’t a dime a dozen on brokenstolenraidos.com. Would probably prevent a LOT of trunked system issues from people having zero idea what they are doing with these. Bring it to a Motorola dealer and have them program it for you. Or - get an SDS100 and call it a day. Much less of a headache and won’t get your radio bricked / into trouble if you affiliate with the system.

 

[nikronzo]

I wish xts5000’s weren’t a dime a dozen on brokenstolenraidos.com.

well that's only half the problem, someone at Moto years ago had to know this was going to be an issue someday. Ik its been talked about before in threads that everything could have been so much easier with just a single checkbox for Rx only TRS, but that didn't happen

Instead, we're stuck with surplused radios, leaked depot, syskey generators, and lack of understanding of TRS' configurations and therein consequences. What's it gonna be like in 10-15 years when the APX's start hitting the used market like the XTS.

OP please please please either get a grasp of these concepts before you program your radio or buy a damn scanner

 

[ElroyJetson]

I echo a previous thought: Don't use depot for programming. Some people say it's got bugs in it that makes it less than optimal for the job.

Instead, if you have the key problem sorted out, use regular release CPS. It's stable.

All trunking channels on all bands operate on a TX-RX offset whether the channels are currently doing voice or control channel duty.
45 MHz for 800 MHz.
30 MHz for 700 MHz.
VHF has no standard offset plan.
UHF...5 MHz except for T band which is 3 MHz.
900 is odd...39 MHz offset.

700 MHz operation with an XTS5000 is tricky to say the least. For a long time I thought it was just a broken feature. When you see what rules you have to follow to get any 700 MHz data properly entered into the radio...you'll think I was right.

I don't think you have to enter any 700 MHz data for ANY 800 MHz system if you only want to MONITOR it. Skip that step.
Any 700 MHz data you enter will only be applicable to data interchange between your radio and the system, which you don't want. No voice traffic is carried on the 700 MHz channels in this instance, and all the data your radio needs to hear is on the 800 MHz control channels.

Do not program 700 MHz channel data in your radio. It serves you no good purpose.

 

[merlin]

Good grief...do you not know that 700 MHz channels are +30 offset? No wonder you can't get anything working right. 🤦‍♂️

Anyone know a sysadmin for 18B? Might want to have them keep an eye on sites 1 and 4 for unusual activity.

I am not that stupid, now you are being an idiot.

 

[merlin]

I echo a previous thought: Don't use depot for programming. Some people say it's got bugs in it that makes it less than optimal for the job.

Instead, if you have the key problem sorted out, use regular release CPS. It's stable.

All trunking channels on all bands operate on a TX-RX offset whether the channels are currently doing voice or control channel duty.
45 MHz for 800 MHz.
30 MHz for 700 MHz.
VHF has no standard offset plan.
UHF...5 MHz except for T band which is 3 MHz.
900 is odd...39 MHz offset.

700 MHz operation with an XTS5000 is tricky to say the least. For a long time I thought it was just a broken feature. When you see what rules you have to follow to get any 700 MHz data properly entered into the radio...you'll think I was right.

I don't think you have to enter any 700 MHz data for ANY 800 MHz system if you only want to MONITOR it. Skip that step.
Any 700 MHz data you enter will only be applicable to data interchange between your radio and the system, which you don't want. No voice traffic is carried on the 700 MHz channels in this instance, and all the data your radio needs to hear is on the 800 MHz control channels.

Do not program 700 MHz channel data in your radio. It serves you no good purpose.

My bad suggesting CC to be simplex, my brain cells are ingrained with scanners and scanning in mind.
These radios make the best scanners, try to dispute that.
Now 700Mhz using a 30 Mhz offset, that is a new one on me. Let me see if that will correct this TX error,,
IF I can change it.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Oh, I know, a public safety grade radio makes for a superior scanner once you've got it properly set up. I've been doing that for 30 years and have never once owned a scanner. It's always Motorola, or GE or any of the large number of names to follow the GE legacy brand, which is today L3 Harris.

 

[merlin]

For the sake of a break from this, I put the juice to the mobile for the first time. Still codeplugged for a large Florida system. A load of channels with mix-n-match types so make for some good examples.
No indication of ASK and made a few mods(radio wide) and works in the radio.
Now I can do things like setting squelch(CNV CH) display bright and TX pwr from buttons.
OK,, back to the portable. Thanks.

 

[merlin]

Oh, I know, a public safety grade radio makes for a superior scanner once you've got it properly set up. I've been doing that for 30 years and have never once owned a scanner. It's always Motorola, or GE or any of the large number of names to follow the GE legacy brand, which is today L3 Harris.

Yea, I have done a lot of the GE, even done things the engineers said can't be done(I go back to the Delta SX and the M7100s make great ham radios. (I own those) I am probably L3 Harris most wanted terrorist LOL.

 

[merlin]

Heed to the advice of some other users on here OP, get a scanner.

This radio is the best scanner, I hear the APX is a bit better for sound.

 

[merlin]

OK, got to looking at offsets and found the uplink at minus 4 Mhz. Good part, I changed the offset with this discovery and all the errors vanished from the codeplug.
My case, TX offset is irrelevant, this won't be transmitting. I can hardwire the TR switch if need be.
What ever works here.
Now the work of populating groups and channels. (this is getting easier as I go)
Update the firmware, program the codeplug and should have a dandy scanner.
More to follow >>>>>
73s

 

[chrismol1]

This is what gets me keyed up over NAS. Everything says "create a trunking system". Don't select the actual talkgroup, build a scanlist without TX talkback. Well, nobody knows what the hell that means. That's supposed to be the deterrent to buy a scanner but there's a million posts on fourms on NAS but it requires a lot of reading & comprehension for those who will do it anyway. It should ALWAYS be start off with setting the concentric to TX INHIBIT before you screw something. Then do your programming experimentation crap. It requires knowledge of trunking programming beyond entering a few control channels and blowing a codeplug. Site ID #, RFSS #, band plans, C4FM vs CQPSK, Scan system search times, Talkgroup scan, Designated voice tx member, Astro CAI Data registration, Smartzone Site IDs & Omnilink RFSS, it all matters, if you select Smartzone & tick off Onmilink, site IDs and rfss no longer matter. Try putting the wrong Site ID in the default Disabled and going to another Site ID. It will transmit in NAS without TX INHIBIT. the rest of the defaults are fine. And we get this all the time with lack of basics., "whys that red light flashing on my NAS radio? And ya know what I said this what? A month ago for the same NAS stuff. Its all there to read out in the open but it'll be re-done again in a month anyways.................

What's it gonna be like in 10-15 years when the APX's start hitting the used market like the XTS.

Don't worry, have no fear, as soon as Control Channel Encryption gets into the standards or more than likely, Motorola will want to petition to sell it as a flashport feature or some proprietary crap. Enjoy your scanners, XTS/APX, whatever else while you can. We'll be like UK's Tetra when it happens

 

[MTS2000des]

This radio is the best scanner, I hear the APX is a bit better for sound.

no one ever interfered with, duplicated and ID and showed up affiliating on a system with, or got arrested for programming or using a scanner.
the same can't be said about unauthorized programming of trunking radios.
you've been given solid advice. what you choose to do with it is your choice.

 

[merlin]

This is what gets me keyed up over NAS. Everything says "create a trunking system". Don't select the actual talkgroup, build a scanlist without TX talkback. Well, nobody knows what the hell that means. That's supposed to be the deterrent to buy a scanner but there's a million posts on fourms on NAS but it requires a lot of reading & comprehension for those who will do it anyway. It should ALWAYS be start off with setting the concentric to TX INHIBIT before you screw something. Then do your programming experimentation crap. It requires knowledge of trunking programming beyond entering a few control channels and blowing a codeplug. Site ID #, RFSS #, band plans, C4FM vs CQPSK, Scan system search times, Talkgroup scan, Designated voice tx member, Astro CAI Data registration, Smartzone Site IDs & Omnilink RFSS, it all matters, if you select Smartzone & tick off Onmilink, site IDs and rfss no longer matter. Try putting the wrong Site ID in the default Disabled and going to another Site ID. It will transmit in NAS without TX INHIBIT. the rest of the defaults are fine. And we get this all the time with lack of basics., "whys that red light flashing on my NAS radio? And ya know what I said this what? A month ago for the same NAS stuff. Its all there to read out in the open but it'll be re-done again in a month anyways.................


Don't worry, have no fear, as soon as Control Channel Encryption gets into the standards or more than likely, Motorola will want to petition to sell it as a flashport feature or some proprietary crap. Enjoy your scanners, XTS/APX, whatever else while you can. We'll be like UK's Tetra when it happens

You hit the nail right on the head and why my radio stays on the dummy load til I have it right and still have switches to TX inhibit. I have made a lot of progress, but still have a ways to go to even populate my scan list.
I have found a lot of flaws on those forums you speak of, some people will just wind up in deep doo doo.
very bad eyes, I need aspirin and breaks. Takes me 10 time longer than it should, still yet, I pick up on this stuff awful quick. Good post.

 

[merlin]

no one ever interfered with, duplicated and ID and showed up affiliating on a system with, or got arrested for programming or using a scanner.
the same can't be said about unauthorized programming of trunking radios.
you've been given solid advice. what you choose to do with it is your choice.

Hey, radio in one hand beats buying yet another expensive scanner.
Kindly note, this will not be unauthorized or illegal unless it transmits, and that is just not going to happen.
I am highly qualified to open this thing up and defeat the transmit enable if need be but the radio is not going to transmit. thanks. (that is my choice)

 

[nikronzo]

Don't worry, have no fear, as soon as Control Channel Encryption gets into the standards or more than likely, Motorola will want to petition to sell it as a flashport feature or some proprietary crap. Enjoy your scanners, XTS/APX, whatever else while you can. We'll be like UK's Tetra when it happens

Also with depot and other "tools" going cloud based, if someone gets an APX not flashed for Q361 or TDMA operation, they wont be able to flash it, and they might not be able to get around the ASK if there's no legacy sys key option enabled. Moto got kinda smart, only took them like 25 years.

 

[mancow]

My bad suggesting CC to be simplex, my brain cells are ingrained with scanners and scanning in mind.
These radios make the best scanners, try to dispute that.
Now 700Mhz using a 30 Mhz offset, that is a new one on me. Let me see if that will correct this TX error,,
IF I can change it.

I'll dispute that. My SDS100 almost always outperforms an APX4000 and other subscriber units when attempting to monitor a distant simulcast system. The subscribers are properly programmed and authorized on the system as well.

 

[ElroyJetson]

As the final measure of security, if you are technically able and can read a schematic and are good with a soldering iron, you always have the option to physically disable the transmitter by removing specific components, which won't affect receive operation.
I'd suggest the PA driver. It alone can generate enough RF to be detected if you're close to a site.

I'd be willing to bet long odds that MOST people who are saying "Buy a scanner" have a Motorola or GE-to-Harris radio sitting on the shelf behind them, programmed to scan a local system or two. Which is very hypocritical. "It's OK for ME to do it, but you shouldn't!" "Do as I say, not as I do!"

What is really needed, if anyone wants to take up the challenge, is to write a DEFINITIVE guide to no-tx scanning which covers all those little details that can trip you up. And that document should be passed around to all concerned.