Codeplug, ASK and whatever else questions.

[N4KVE]

I'd be willing to bet long odds that MOST people who are saying "Buy a scanner" have a Motorola or GE-to-Harris radio sitting on the shelf behind them, programmed to scan a local system or two. Which is very hypocritical. "It's OK for ME to do it, but you shouldn't!" "Do as I say, not as I do!"

Absolutely true. The people on the radio forums who scream the loudest to buy CPS from Moto, vs buying discs on E-Bay, or getting it from a friend, they themselves work for a 2-way shop so they didn’t pay for their CPS either. Sure, they’re allowed to have it for work, but preaching to others about the sins of getting it when they didn’t pay is comical.

 

[xmo]

Keep in mind - even if you get the NAS programming right - you can still get yourself in trouble by strutting around in public with law enforcement traffic blaring out of a radio on your belt.

When some cop sees that your radio radio looks just like his and starts asking who you are and where you got it - telling him about the TX Inhibit concentric won't stop him from confiscating your radio.

Then try to get it back. Tell them you will sue. They have a building full of lawyers. Tell them they can't confiscate personal property. The county attorney will probably tell you they are considering prosecuting you for electronic trespass.

You can't afford to fight it so - NOW you buy a scanner. I personally know a system admin who has a shiny new APX8000 trophy acquired in this manner.

 

[nikronzo]

What is really needed, if anyone wants to take up the challenge, is to write a DEFINITIVE guide to no-tx scanning which covers all those little details that can trip you up. And that document should be passed around to all concerned.

if such a complete guide existed, would the moderators/admins/etc be open to having such a document present on RR?

 

[mikewazowski]

700 MHz operation with an XTS5000 is tricky to say the least. For a long time I thought it was just a broken feature. When you see what rules you have to follow to get any 700 MHz data properly entered into the radio...you'll think I was right.

It’s not much different then any other bands long as you enter in a valid frequency and have your bandwidth set right.

I don't think you have to enter any 700 MHz data for ANY 800 MHz system if you only want to MONITOR it. Skip that step.
Any 700 MHz data you enter will only be applicable to data interchange between your radio and the system, which you don't want. No voice traffic is carried on the 700 MHz channels in this instance, and all the data your radio needs to hear is on the 800 MHz control channels.

Do not program 700 MHz channel data in your radio. It serves you no good purpose.

You’re assuming that the 700MHz channels don’t carry voice which in most cases, isn’t true.

 

[mikewazowski]

if such a complete guide existed, would the moderators/admins/etc be open to having such a document present on RR?

Depends on what’s in it although RR really isn’t a file hosting site. It would have to be kept at another site and linked to.

 

[K2NEC]

These radios make the best scanners, try to dispute that.

Oh, I know, a public safety grade radio makes for a superior scanner once you've got it properly set up. I've been doing that for 30 years and have never once owned a scanner.

I don't disagree. BUT you have to know how to properly set it up in order to achieve that. We all have to learn one way or another but it's one thing to ask for step by step instructions and another to have a question or 2 about programming.

 

[ElroyJetson]

I know there are cases I don't know about, but personally I have yet to encounter a 700/800 system that allocates voice to the 700 MHz channels. They use those channels for data applications. To the best of my admittedly limted knowledge.

A proposed "guide to safe scanning" document would best be traded person to person or hosted at Dropbox, google drive, email, etc... there's no reason why this site would CHOOSE to host information that could be used to bend if not outright break certain laws. And we do understand that the legality of using a public safety radio to monitor a system is at the very least in the legal grey area.

In my case, I bought the software, I have the licenses required for the software and for all radio operations that apply to my radios as I use them, I'm a radio technician professionally, and I have a solid reputation with law enforcement in my area. I've definitely had a few dealings with the command level staff of my county's Sheriff's Department concerning my finding and returning lost/stolen/missing radios and I am certainly in good graces with them. They know that I'm a responsible citizen, very much on their side, and will proactively do the right thing with regard to encountering county property that got out improperly. A good reputation is EARNED. I've done the work and earned mine. I have literally been listening to local systems longer than most officers have been on the force. And NEVER had an issue. Well..there was one. But that was over a VHF radio and the officer in question was slapped down very authoritatively by the supervisor who obviously had a low opinion of that particular rookie cop. The rookie thought that it was not legal for a "mere civilian" to own a portable radio. Literally that was his thought. Despite my being able to cite the law verbatim. "I think they changed that law recently. I'm going to confiscate that radio if I'm right." Idiot.

Part of being a responsible listener is to use the information you hear as a guide to where to STAY AWAY FROM. I hear about a crash...I detour to avoid the traffic. Fire? I'm going the other way. Armed man/hostage situation? I'll leave that area alone. I won't ever be in a situation where my presence could add one more complicating factor to already stressed officers. Scanner people who use their radios to go find interesting things to watch are just the kind of MORONS that give the whole hobby a bad name.

Meanwhile I knew a guy (I can't really say he was a friend...) who programmed up his STX (this goes back a ways...) to listen to his county system, AND BE ABLE TO TRANSMIT...and he was showing it off to his "cop friends" (he was a full-on police groupie....) and one that wasn't his "friend" did the right thing and confiscated it and he avoided legal trouble by the skin of his teeth. ANOTHER IDIOT.

 

[wa8pyr]

I know there are cases I don't know about, but personally I have yet to encounter a 700/800 system that allocates voice to the 700 MHz channels. They use those channels for data applications. To the best of my admittedly limted knowledge.

Ohio MARCS is using 700 MHz for voice all over the state, as are many other systems around the country. A quick look at the database bears this out.

 

[alcahuete]

Keep in mind - even if you get the NAS programming right - you can still get yourself in trouble by strutting around in public with law enforcement traffic blaring out of a radio on your belt.

When some cop sees that your radio radio looks just like his and starts asking who you are and where you got it - telling him about the TX Inhibit concentric won't stop him from confiscating your radio.

Then try to get it back. Tell them you will sue. They have a building full of lawyers. Tell them they can't confiscate personal property. The county attorney will probably tell you they are considering prosecuting you for electronic trespass.

You can't afford to fight it so - NOW you buy a scanner. I personally know a system admin who has a shiny new APX8000 trophy acquired in this manner.

Nonsense. You think some officer is going to know the difference between a transceiver and scanner, and not confiscate the radio because you tell them it's a scanner vs. a transceiver?

If they're going to confiscate it, they're going to confiscate it. You file IA complaints and take them to small claims court. You don't need a lawyer to take them to small claims court, and their building of attorneys can't show up. Nobody is going to let an APX8000 go without a fight. Cool story though.

 

[ecps92]

Same here in "MA" - 700 Conventional for the Pac/RT's and used as an Overlay as part of a TRS

Commonwealth Of Massachusetts Interoperable Radio System (CoMIRS) Trunking System - Site: Metro Boston Overlay Simulcast

Commonwealth Of Massachusetts Interoperable Radio System (CoMIRS) Trunking System site details for Metro Boston Overlay Simulcast

www.radioreference.com

Ohio MARCS is using 700 MHz for voice all over the state, as are many other systems around the country. A quick look at the database bears this out.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Yes, most any cop is going to notice when the radio you are carrying is just like the one he is carrying. Who can doubt that? When you strap that brick to your body every single day you get to the point where you kind of know what it looks like.

 

[Outerdog]

You think some officer is going to know the difference between a transceiver and scanner,

If it's a Luxury Transceiver, they will notice.

 

[alcahuete]

Yes, most any cop is going to notice when the radio you are carrying is just like the one he is carrying. Who can doubt that? When you strap that brick to your body every single day you get to the point where you kind of know what it looks like.

And they're going to take it away from you because it is like theirs? Sorry, but that's just nuts.

If it's a Luxury Transceiver, they will notice.

I would guess that most cops would have absolutely no idea, and considering that it isn't illegal to own one, I can't imagine why they would care.

There are nutty cops out there for sure, just like there are nutty people in any profession, but confiscating radios for no reason other than they look like theirs? Sounds like a tall tale. Next thing you know, somebody is going to be discussing Glocks or Police Interceptors being confiscated because they look like the cops'.

 

[nikronzo]

I would guess that most cops would have absolutely no idea, and considering that it isn't illegal to own one, I can't imagine why they would care.

I would tend to agree with you, the majority of first responders/public safety don't know/don't care about their system besides that it works and it's there to keep them alive and safe (god bless these men & women). That being said, it's not without some consideration that someone from law enforcement might ask a few questions.

This might be an unpopular opinion and raise some heat amongst some of you, but I believe as a taxpayer that I am entitled to listen in on public safety freqs/systems since a tiny fraction of my tax $ has gone to building/supporting/purchasing radios and so on. Nobody "owns" the electromagnetic spectrum and I should be able to listen to what I want. And yes I am aware of the potential ramifications involved in having systems keys and listening to a TRS with NAS.

 

[merlin]

Keep in mind - even if you get the NAS programming right - you can still get yourself in trouble by strutting around in public with law enforcement traffic blaring out of a radio on your belt.

When some cop sees that your radio radio looks just like his and starts asking who you are and where you got it - telling him about the TX Inhibit concentric won't stop him from confiscating your radio.

Then try to get it back. Tell them you will sue. They have a building full of lawyers. Tell them they can't confiscate personal property. The county attorney will probably tell you they are considering prosecuting you for electronic trespass.

You can't afford to fight it so - NOW you buy a scanner. I personally know a system admin who has a shiny new APX8000 trophy acquired in this manner.

I thought of that but most of the city police, sheriff, and FD know me. Often we talk radio ( just barely know how to use them.) One of the ICAWIN techs is also a ham radio op, He likes my M7100.
Doesn't seem to bother anyone that I may eavesdrop as long as I don't go on call chases.
Now if I lived in LA, likely I would get arrested as a domestic terrorist.
Our shooting range is right behind the sheriff office and the agents that hang out there know I have guns, radios, pet spiders and such.

 

[merlin]

Yes, most any cop is going to notice when the radio you are carrying is just like the one he is carrying. Who can doubt that? When you strap that brick to your body every single day you get to the point where you kind of know what it looks like.

They get a close look, see Brooklyn FD engraved on the side and a seriously older radio, they no longer care.

 

[xmo]

The point was - if you go around trying to look important - strutting around in public with law enforcement traffic blaring out of a radio on your belt that looks just like the one on the cop's belt - it can end badly.

I don't think you can settle electronic trespass charges in small claims.

And - I can assure you the APX8000 paperweight is very real.

 

[merlin]

@ ElroyJetson: That is some good examples. Being a former tech for Clark County Communications is much how I acquired my goodies. (didn't come free)
Basically, I finished my codeplug following your lead for NAS and do have a couple questions.
In my scan list it goes to 10 channels. I have 31 channels programmed in the personality. Can I presume this will scan all 31 Channels ? ( I will be adding a few more as I go.)

Now for all that have the XTS5000 firmware v 15.00.08
Has anyone had issues getting the menu to function as programmed ?
I have to consider a hardware thing, side buttons sometimes flake out like switch bounce.
I'd rather not do surgery, but a possible ribbon connection breaking down for age.
Thanks people, mainly for putting up with me.
73s

 

[merlin]

The point was - if you go around trying to look important - strutting around in public with law enforcement traffic blaring out of a radio on your belt that looks just like the one on the cop's belt - it can end badly.

I don't think you can settle electronic trespass charges in small claims.

And - I can assure you the APX8000 paperweight is very real.

Perhaps where you live, around here, people generally care less, even first responders.
As long as I don't interfere with their duties or compromise their safety, everyone is happy.

 

[alcahuete]

The point was - if you go around trying to look important - strutting around in public with law enforcement traffic blaring out of a radio on your belt that looks just like the one on the cop's belt - it can end badly.

Again, not a crime. Not illegal. Unlawful seizure, loss of qualified immunity, and a civil rights lawsuit are exactly what would come of that. I can definitely see how it can end very badly.....for the cop. I would do anything to be the plaintiff in that lawsuit, because it will be a 6 figure pay day, at a minimum, and that's just the payout from the department. With the loss of qualified immunity, the officer would also be named personally in the lawsuit.

I don't think you can settle electronic trespass charges in small claims.

There is no such charge. Digital trespass refers to breaking into computers and computer systems unlawfully. The 1934 Communications Act, FOIA, and a multitude of court rulings have established the airways as public. It is not at all unlawful to monitor the airwaves, police communications or otherwise. You can even do it using the same brand and type of radio the police use.

The small claims I was referring to was challenging the police department in court, which you say you can't afford to fight, to get your equipment back, say prior to the 6 figure payday. Very cheap to take the police department to small claims.

And - I can assure you the APX8000 paperweight is very real.

Ummmmmm.....care to give me the name and info of the person who is in possession of that stolen property? Please? I'll even pay you for that info!