Oh the topic has come up in the past on mygmrs. There are a few "linked" mobiles out there at folks houses which i consider a hotspot. Its stupid.
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Considerations about linking GMRS repeaters.
- Thread starter 665_NJ
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Oh the topic has come up in the past on mygmrs. There are a few "linked" mobiles out there at folks houses which i consider a hotspot. Its stupid.
Agree with you @RFI-EMI-GUY . Licenses will keep the service alive. I think the advent of the off road world moving to it is helping the simplex user base but also causing confusion. I've talked to folks at multiple Jeep Jamborees about licenses and many feel there is no need. Some are good about it but its just like the old race radios stuff.
In the end old GMRS users will get pushed out and have to find another service to use in some locations. Luckily near me its not an issue yet but where I travel it can get crazy.
In the end old GMRS users will get pushed out and have to find another service to use in some locations. Luckily near me its not an issue yet but where I travel it can get crazy.
bill4long
Member
There's a network of GMRS hotspots out there using simplex radios and Allstar for linking.
RFI-EMI-GUY
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The problem is Midland who controls that market. They seem to be ignoring FCC rules. No doubt there will be more waiver requests and NPRM's from them until they trash up the service and FCC is forced to license by rule.
smittie
Member
For my own education, how is Midland ignoring FCC rules?
Amen. In some places, they are elite snotty cliques. In other places, they are just totally worthless.
RFI-EMI-GUY
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To be clear, what they are doing is creating their own "defacto rules" by 1) Selling narrowband radios as GMRS. Legal, but technically wrong. 2) Ignoring the licensing issue while being an active GMRS proponent (of own product) in Jeep events. 3) Lobbying for waivers of digital rules that will result in interference detrimental to the other users. 4) They exaggerate on performance of products. They are not alone in that, but can't they take the high road in anything? 5) Alledgedly furnishing software to "modify" certain radios that were certified as Narrow Band only to make them Wide Band. This is clearly illegal. But it could be that it is an illusion to fool their own customers.
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smittie
Member
Thanks, @RFI-EMI-GUY.
Given the strong marketing position Midland has taken in the GMRS space, I assumed that they would be proponents of the GMRS/FRS services. It is at once surprising and not that they don't.
I attend Jeep Jamboree events. I was more than a little surprised that Jeep Jamboree does not check type of radio in use or license. However, neither the Jeep Jamboree organization nor Midland is the FCC police. I obey most - not all - of the FCC regulations but it is clearly an honor system for the most part. Not saying that's right, just saying it is.
Given the strong marketing position Midland has taken in the GMRS space, I assumed that they would be proponents of the GMRS/FRS services. It is at once surprising and not that they don't.
I attend Jeep Jamboree events. I was more than a little surprised that Jeep Jamboree does not check type of radio in use or license. However, neither the Jeep Jamboree organization nor Midland is the FCC police. I obey most - not all - of the FCC regulations but it is clearly an honor system for the most part. Not saying that's right, just saying it is.
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I'm not defending Midland here, but the points made included the words "legal", "waivers", and "allegedly". As to #2, licensing is up to the user not the manufacturer; user's responsibility, technically. They requested waivers (the legal process with the FCC) and if granted them then they followed the process. Doesn't mean we like it or agree but they did follow the process.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
It's been that way for a long time.
As for the Jeep Jamboree checking licenses, that would be difficult to do as they'd need to run each one to see if it was valid and actually assigned to the individual, or someone they were directly related to. If not, what would they do? They have zero enforcement authority, and checking the family tree to see if a relative was licensed would be impossible.
As for the individuals, most have zero understanding about how the radios work. All they know is that they buy it on line, slap it in their jeep and are good to go. There is zero difference (to them) between GMRS, FRS, CB radio or their cell phone. There is zero understanding/knowledge of FCC licensing. Midland could absolutely do a better job at helping users to understand it, but it's not really their job. However, it would boost the support for GMRS if the FCC saw a lot of new licensees.
The battle is already lost. No one wants to learn, understand or follow the rules. No one wants to be told "no". People want to buy a product, have Amazon Prime deliver it over night, and they want to use it immediately. Instant gratification with no effort or responsibility involved.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
The waivers go into a comment period. Any individual can pull up that information and submit comments/challenges to the FCC. On the last Midland waiver request, the FCC didn't show any comments or challenges were submitted.
bill4long
Member
Re: Midland
I listen to the Midwest GMRS Repeater Network quite a lot (because VHF/UHF ham radio in central Indiana is all but dead, and sometimes I just wanna hear some FM ragchew chatter, such as it is.) Literally nobody on the system uses Midland radios. People sneer at the Midland radios. Virtually everyone is into Part 90 radios. Even when a newbies starts out with a cheap Baofeng, it doesn't last long. Peer pressure pushes everyone in the direction of Part 90 radios. Point is, Midland isn't driving the linked repeater phenomenon, at least in the Midwest. Midland is primarily interested in the off-road scene, where repeaters are (generally) not used. Just FYI.
One waiver request that Midland submitted actually makes sense IMO:
I listen to the Midwest GMRS Repeater Network quite a lot (because VHF/UHF ham radio in central Indiana is all but dead, and sometimes I just wanna hear some FM ragchew chatter, such as it is.) Literally nobody on the system uses Midland radios. People sneer at the Midland radios. Virtually everyone is into Part 90 radios. Even when a newbies starts out with a cheap Baofeng, it doesn't last long. Peer pressure pushes everyone in the direction of Part 90 radios. Point is, Midland isn't driving the linked repeater phenomenon, at least in the Midwest. Midland is primarily interested in the off-road scene, where repeaters are (generally) not used. Just FYI.
One waiver request that Midland submitted actually makes sense IMO:
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smittie
Member
That is a great summary of the problem. The licensing issue is exacerbated by the fact that literally everyone in the family tree is authorized under a single license. I had not really thought about that but you are correct. Enforcement of licensing, even by FCC officials is challenging at best.
Appreciate the insight.
RFI-EMI-GUY
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I have given up on comments as these seem to be a done deal whenever those /\/\anufacturers have wined and dined in Gettysburg. I tried to stir up some consensus when MRA was asking FCC to give them the first and last 4 KHz of both Part 95 GMRS blocks but was met with resistance, from surprisingly GMRS old guard folks, "oh that's just guard band, surely if they interfere I can tell FCC I was there first". MRA tried this first with the 450 MHz Part 74 broadcast RPU band and the FCC rightfully told them that they could not pass over from Part 90 to Part 74. But then when they asked to do same the Part 95, it was like, sure give it a whirl.
RFI-EMI-GUY
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I travel to national parks, and that is where you hear a lot of simplex chatter, and for some reason, signals seem to travel pretty far. It is bad enough enduring the constant Rodger beeps, but now we will be hearing barrages of text messaging back and forth at high power.
But you are right, none of this midland involves linking.
smittie
Member
Midland spends a lot of money and effort marketing to the ag community and for good reason. That is actually what got me more heavily engaged in GMRS/FRS. For a lot of operations, farm and ranch, GMRS is a perfect alternative to business itinerant channel licensing. Operations are often family operated so one license covers everyone. Non-family hands and hire men get cheap FRS radios because in addition to not having a license, they tend to lose or break them. We do some consulting with ranchers to help them set up GMRS on ranch communication systems.
Midland sent repeaters to several ag podcasters asking them to try them and review them on their shows. The repeater is a good solution for larger operations and operations that work two sides of a hill or mountain.
Smittie
RanchHacks
RFI-EMI-GUY
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Yeah the family thing is good and bad. Oh my 12th cousin Billy Bob on my baby momma's side holds the license. Even Midland's licensing FAQ seems to give it a "wink wink".
smittie
Member
As @mmckenna pointed out, the license as it is currently structured is impossible to enforce. My last name is Smith. Who is going to go to the effort to determine whether any other Smith is within the defined relationship requirements? Just for starters.
It the final days of CB licenses, Cobra included in the box with the radio a sternly worded letter and a license submission form for a license. As @mmckenna implied, GMRS is head to license by rule. $35 for everyone in your family tree for ten years with no enforcement. They are essentially already there.
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mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
The family licensing thing worked well when you looked at the original intention of GMRS.
It was handy many years back when I needed decent radio for my extended family. CB was becoming unusable, and GMRS was the perfect solution. One license, retired UHF commercial radios, and everyone was set.
It was handy many years back when I needed decent radio for my extended family. CB was becoming unusable, and GMRS was the perfect solution. One license, retired UHF commercial radios, and everyone was set.
smittie
Member
That's exactly what my clients are doing now with GMRS. Out here even CB is somewhat usable as long as you stay away from 19.
