Considerations about linking GMRS repeaters.

[12dbsinad]

If you look right on the FCC page, under operations, please see the clause that repeaters cannot be linked for GMRS communications and only to control the actual repeater itself. Pretty much black and white here.. Also note it specifically states short-range communications. I don't think that means frequency hogging by linking the entire state with 1 conversation.

General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)

AboutRule Part47 C.F.R, Part 95 Subpart ERadio Service Code(s)ZA - GMRS

www.fcc.gov

 

[bill4long]

If you look right on the FCC page, under operations, please see the clause that repeaters cannot be linked for GMRS communications and only to control the actual repeater itself. Pretty much black and white here.. Also not is specifically states short-range communications. I don't think that means frequency hogging by linking the entire state with 1 conversation.

General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)

AboutRule Part47 C.F.R, Part 95 Subpart ERadio Service Code(s)ZA - GMRS

www.fcc.gov

Well, that's a web page at the FCC written by who knows, and is not the regulations. If you look at part 95 and follow the definitions through what is permissible and not-permissible, what you claim (from the page you cite) does not obtain. This is the FCC's fault, not yours. What is explicitly forbidden is transmitting via "public switched networks" (95.349) which has a historical meaning of the wired POTS telephone system. "Ma Bell." Does this now include the Internet? Not that I can definitively determine - it's murky at best - and the de facto situation is that they are not performing any enforcement that would lead anyone to believe that it does. Or that they care. Maybe someone has a reference to a clear resolution to the question.

 

[12dbsinad]

Well, that's a web page at the FCC written by who knows, and is not the regulations. If you look at part 95 and follow the definitions through what is permissible and not-permissible, what you claim (from the page you cite) does not obtain. This is the FCC's fault, not yours. What is explicitly forbidden is transmitting via "public switched networks" (95.349) which has a historical meaning of the wired POTS telephone system. "Ma Bell." Does this now include the Internet? Not that I can definitively determine - it's murky at best - and the de facto situation is that they are not performing any enforcement that would lead anyone to believe that it does. Or that they care. Maybe someone has a reference to a clear resolution to the question.

Yes, they added the clause "and other networks" that covers internet, LTE, etc. It says connection to telephone is prohibited.

It says for the sole purpose of remote control, which this little tid-bit from the FCC that I linked confirms my suspicion of what the actual regulation means.

It looks like the repeater operator is also to obtain WRITTEN permission of ALL users and file it. How many people know that one!? Kinda hard to do on a hammy linked system!

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

The fly in the ointment is the concept of remote control/ operation. In every other FCC service remote operation includes modulation. How suddenly does this become different in GMRS?

It doesn't. This from definitions in Part 95.303:

Remote control.
Operation of a Personal Radio Services station from a location that is not in the immediate vicinity of the transmitter. Operation of a Personal Radio Services station from any location on the premises, vehicle or craft where the transmitter is located is not considered to be remote control.

In summary; the 2017 rules specifically carved out new exceptions to the long standing telephone interconnect and remote control prohibitions, for GMRS to be operated by remote control via the internet (other networks).

The FCC does not care about "linking" of repeaters. Repeaters have been linked as far back as the 70's when a repeater club in Chicago installed satellite receivers all over Chicago land to enhance repeater coverage. How did they do it? They leased circuits from the phone company (physically isolated from the PSTN). They did so blatantly and openly without any hesitation. Repeaters have been linked using other GMRS pairs and goofy links. Did the FCC care back then? NO. Has anyone been cited for doing so? NO.

There is a dark dusty warehouse in Gettysburg PA where stands a rusty file cabinet , inside of which is a mouse eaten file folder labeled Citations for GMRS Linking. The folder is empty my friends. You can check yourself. A while back I searched the electronic records of the Enforcement Bureau and found nothing to indicate this has ever been on their radar. They really don't care, nor should you.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Yes, they added the clause "and other networks" that covers internet, LTE, etc. It says connection to telephone is prohibited.

It says for the sole purpose of remote control, which this little tid-bit from the FCC that I linked confirms my suspicion of what the actual regulation means.

It looks like the repeater operator is also to obtain WRITTEN permission of ALL users and file it. How many people know that one!? Kinda hard to do on a hammy linked system!

Where exactly does it say that?

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

If you look right on the FCC page, under operations, please see the clause that repeaters cannot be linked for GMRS communications and only to control the actual repeater itself. Pretty much black and white here.. Also note it specifically states short-range communications. I don't think that means frequency hogging by linking the entire state with 1 conversation.

General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)

AboutRule Part47 C.F.R, Part 95 Subpart ERadio Service Code(s)ZA - GMRS

www.fcc.gov

There is no limitation on the distance one can operate through a GMRS repeater. The FCC has only used the words "You can expect a communications range of one to twenty-five miles depending" as an expectation. You will not find any limitation on GMRS transmissions anywhere in the GMRS rules. Again, the words on these pages of FCC website are not the actual rules.

 

[12dbsinad]

Where exactly does it say that?

Right in the rules.

 

[12dbsinad]

There is no limitation on the distance one can operate through a GMRS repeater. The FCC has only used the words "You can expect a communications range of one to twenty-five miles depending" as an expectation. You will not find any limitation on GMRS transmissions anywhere in the GMRS rules. Again, the words on these pages of FCC website are not the actual rules.

Nobody said there was a limitation. That phrase about 25 miles was just under general GMRS information. From the looks of things I'm willing to bet more on the FCC coming back saying repeater linking is not allowed vs what you want to hear.

 

[AK9R]

Right in the rules.

No, you aren't going to get away with that. If you think the FCC rules say what you think they say, you should present the exact rule citation to which you refer. Where in Part 95E does it say this?

 

[12dbsinad]

No, you aren't going to get away with that. If you think the FCC rules say what you think they say, you should present the exact rule citation to which you refer. Where in Part 95E does it say this?

Federal Register :: Request Access

www.ecfr.gov

(f) Cooperative use of GMRS stations. GMRS licensees may share the use of their stations with other persons eligible in the GMRS, subject to the conditions and limitations in this paragraph.

(1) The GMRS station to be shared must be individually owned by the licensee, jointly owned by the participants and the licensee, leased individually by the licensee, or leased jointly by the participants and the licensee.
(2) The licensee must maintain access to and control over all stations authorized under its license.
(3) A station may be shared only:
(i) Without charge;
(ii) On a non-profit basis, with contributions to capital and operating expenses including the cost of mobile stations and paging receivers prorated equitably among all participants; or
(iii) On a reciprocal basis, i.e., use of one licensee's stations for the use of another licensee's stations without charge for either capital or operating expenses.
(4) All sharing arrangements must be conducted in accordance with a written agreement to be kept as part of the station records.

Sure I can get away with it. It's not my problem people can't read and comprehend simple laws. But since spoon feeding is apparently required, please see the bold above and also the link.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Right in the rules.

Not in the rules at all.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Federal Register :: Request Access

www.ecfr.gov

(f) Cooperative use of GMRS stations. GMRS licensees may share the use of their stations with other persons eligible in the GMRS, subject to the conditions and limitations in this paragraph.

(1) The GMRS station to be shared must be individually owned by the licensee, jointly owned by the participants and the licensee, leased individually by the licensee, or leased jointly by the participants and the licensee.
(2) The licensee must maintain access to and control over all stations authorized under its license.
(3) A station may be shared only:
(i) Without charge;
(ii) On a non-profit basis, with contributions to capital and operating expenses including the cost of mobile stations and paging receivers prorated equitably among all participants; or
(iii) On a reciprocal basis, i.e., use of one licensee's stations for the use of another licensee's stations without charge for either capital or operating expenses.
(4) All sharing arrangements must be conducted in accordance with a written agreement to be kept as part of the station records.

Sure I can get away with it. It's not my problem people can't read and comprehend simple laws. But since spoon feeding is apparently required, please see the bold above and also the link.

That applies ONLY to the parties who share a repeater, or in this case a linked repeater. NOT ALL USERS. This is why repeaters are usually closed. If it is a cooperative with cost sharing, as in dues, there most certainly be a written agreement because GMRS is not a commercial service.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Nobody said there was a limitation. That phrase about 25 miles was just under general GMRS information. From the looks of things I'm willing to bet more on the FCC coming back saying repeater linking is not allowed vs what you want to hear.

You seem to like to hype up stuff as FACT only to walk it back when challenged. Stay in your lane dude.

 

[12dbsinad]

That applies ONLY to the parties who share a repeater, or in this case a linked repeater. NOT ALL USERS. This is why repeaters are usually closed. If it is a cooperative with cost sharing, as in dues, there most certainly be a written agreement because GMRS is not a commercial service.

And we are talking about? Linked repeaters perhaps? LOL

I thought you said it didn't exist?

 

[12dbsinad]

You seem to like to hype up stuff as FACT only to walk it back when challenged. Stay in your lane dude.

It's not a challenge when one is right. Sorry. Nobody said there is a range limitation. The 25 miles is an example of a average GMRS repeater according to the FCC. What is so hard to comprehend?

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

And we are talking about? Linked repeaters perhaps? LOL

I thought you said it didn't exist?

You are fairly obtuse.

 

[12dbsinad]

You are fairly obtuse.

So does it not exist? I did my part and provided facts.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Plonk

 

[12dbsinad]

Whatever.

Anyway folks, to clear the air you do in fact need WRITTEN permission for ALL users. And I'll say again that that's pretty impossible to do on a hammy linked system.

Let's move on.

 

[bill4long]

Yes, they added the clause "and other networks" that covers internet, LTE, etc. It says connection to telephone is prohibited.

It says for the sole purpose of remote control, which this little tid-bit from the FCC that I linked confirms my suspicion of what the actual regulation means.

It looks like the repeater operator is also to obtain WRITTEN permission of ALL users and file it. How many people know that one!? Kinda hard to do on a hammy linked system!

Where does it say "and other networks"? (You used quotes.)

(4) All sharing arrangements must be conducted in accordance with a written agreement to be kept as part of the station records.

Um, no, that doesn't say "and other networks." (You used quotes.)

Moreover, if what you are claiming is true, that statement (4) could be used to justify virtually anything as long as it was in writing. At any rate, you may be right about linking, but not for the reason you've stated.