Crazy with TIII systems, need help

[Picardito]

Hi, there are some TIII systems that are driving me crazy, tried to learn reading all TIII related posts with no luck so I decided to ask for some help.
First one is H1, in this one I can see the calls on the event window but cant hear anything. Appears as H2 but then switch to H1.
H1 TIIINonStd
152.0625 CC67 DCC1 site H1-14 11.01.0000001110 channels 70,73,74
152.0750 CC37 DCC1 site H1-13 11.01.0000001101 channels 40,42
152.1000 CC DCC1 site H1-43 11.01.0000101011 channels 28
152.1375 CC11 DCC1 site H1-12 11.01.0000001100 channels
152.1625 CC67 DCC1 site H1-14 11.01.0000001110 channels 71,72,74
152.1750 11.01.0000001101
152.3375 DCC1 site H1-271 11.01.0100001111
152.5312 DCC1 11.01.0000001101
152.5375 DCC1 11.01.0000001101
152.6000 DCC1 site H1-9 11.01.0000001001 channels 6,8

my freq and net files

TIIInonStd, H1, 0, 70, 152.01687, 0.0, 0
TIIInonStd, H1, 0, 0, 152.0175, 0.0, 0
TIIInonStd, H1, 0, 0, 152.037, 0.0, 0
TIIInonStd, H1, 14, 0, 152.062, 152.1625, 0
TIIInonStd, H1, 13, 0, 152.075, 152.5375, 0
TIIInonStd, H1, 43, 0, 152.100, 0.0, 0
TIIInonStd, H1, 12, 0, 152.137, 0.0, 0
TIIInonStd, H1, 0, 72, ,152.6375, 0.0, 0
TIIInonStd, H1, 271, 0, 152.337, 0.0, 0

TIIInonStd, H1, 4.6
TIIIStd, L13, 3.5
TIIIStd, L1, 3.5
There is another H1 system but with different DCC and appears as TIIIStd. Here I can see in the event window lots of private data call(also dont know the difference between data calls and regular group calls) dont know if this system its related to the other one. the info I have is as follows:
171.525 DCC:0 Site: H1-3.8 SysCode=11.00.0000010111 ch 8, 39, 40, 52
171.625 DCC:0 BS SysCode=11.00.0000010111
171.6375 DCC:0 Site: H1-5.8 SysCode=11.00.0000100111 ch 26, 37, 38, 84, 97, 98
171.7125 DCC:0 BS SysCode=11.00.0000100111
171.7250 DCC:0 BS SysCode=11.00.0000010111
171.775 DCC:0 BS SysCode=11.00.0001111100
171.800 DCC:0 Site H1-3.8 SysCode=11.00.0000010111 ch 8, 39, 40, 52
171.9625 DCC:0 Site H1-16.5 SysCode=11.00.0001111100 ch 47, 48, 78
172.000 DCC:0 Site H1-5.8 SysCode=11.00.0000100111 ch 26, 37, 97
172.0875 DCC:0 BS SysCode=11.00.0000100111
475.5375 DCC:0 Site H1-18.4 SysCode=11.00.0010001011

 

[Picardito]

There are a couple of systems more.
L1 TIIIStd
172.2875 DCC0 L1-6.8 10.0000.00101111 control channel NL: 1.8 2.2 3.1 3.6 4.5 6.7 9.1 9.2 10.7 19.2
172.3375 DCC0 L1-9.1 10.0000.01000000 NL: 1.8 2.6 3.1 3.6 4.5 6.7 6.8 9.2 10.6 10.7 14.6 19.2
172.8250 DCC0 L1-4.5 10.0000.00011100
172.9375 DCC0 L1-3.6 10.0000.00010101

L13 TIIIStd HYT
169.825 DCC12 L13-3.5 10.1100.00010100 NL:3.3 and appears two different CC 13698 and CC 787
169.9 DCC10 L13-3.3 10.1100.00010010 NL:3.5 CC 775 and CC13698

also when parked in L13 I can see spikes marked in the pic but when I try to put the mouse in them dissapears.

my freqs file for this

TIIIStd, L13, 3.5, 775, 169.825, 0.0, 0

TIIIStd, L13, 3.3, 787, 169.9, 0.0, 0

TIIIStd, L13, 3.5

 

[mtindor]

Nobody can give you the information you want. You will need to collect more information. You are showing data from at least a dozen different systems. your frequencies file has pretty much only the control channels for a slew of different sites. And it is unlikely that you'll hear voice conversations on the control channel (you may, but it would be rare at best). you are going to have to figure out ALL of the frequencies in use for the system, make not of all of the CH activity in the Channel Activity window when you are parked on one of the the sites. And then you are going to have to figure out if the various CH numbers can be matched up to proper frequencies. You are too new at this to expect to be able to do what you want. You need to gain a lot of knowledge before trying to tackle TIII systems.

DSDPlus - DSD+ .txt Files Miscellaneous Questions Thread

Hello, I am starting to write an unofficial user guide for DSD+ Fast Lane 2.465 and am unable to figure out a few things here and there. So This is a thread to make inquiries to clarify my understanding, especially about what's in the instructions in the .txt files. First off, there's files...

forums.radioreference.com

Read the notes.txt and dsdplus.txt 50 times. if you don't have DSDPlus Fast Lane, get it. Use FMP*-CC.bat and 1R.bat if running Fast Lane.

nobody knows where you are. And even if you told them, I'm guessing the systems you are seeing aren't in the RadioRefence database. So it woudl be hard for anybody to just tell you what to put in networks / sites / frequencies files.

 

[mtindor]

Focus on ONE TIII site, attempting to find all of the frequncies associated with it. Pick one with the most private/group calls per-day.

1. Park on the control channel
2. watch the Channel Activity window and write down every CH mentioned over the course of the day

post the frequencies for that particular site on that particular system (becuase they are almost always multisite) along with the CH information from the Channel Activity window.

In the future, when you add screenshots, don't forget to show the Channel Activity window. That is absolutely important for us to see, if you expect any of us to even try and help out.

i have a feeling a language barrier is going to be an issue too.

Mike

 

[mtindor]

Site:H1-3.8 with control channel on 171.525:

8
23
24
39
40
52

7/8 is one frequency
23/24 is another frequency
39/40 is another frequency
51/52 is another frequency

so Site H1-3.8 has at least four frequencies associated with it, maybe more. All frequencies that are part of this site will need to be determined, and then matched up against the Ch's (LSNs).

Really not an easy thing to do.

Mike

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Welcome to the RR forums. It may help if you gave us your monitoring location. Seeing that you're not a RR premium subscriber you won't be able to do a database query search to see if any of the frequencies you provided have been ID'ed in the RRDB for your area or surrounding areas. Simply giving random frequencies with no info about your monitoring location isn't going to yield any helpful results.

 

[Picardito]

Thank you all for the responses.
I´m using dsdplus fastlane 1R and FMP24-CC bats.

I understand there is a lot of research to do. but maybe you can answer some questions:

How can I match the activity with the frequencies? should the freqs be near in the spectrum from the control channel?
How do I know if im separating correctly the area.site in the syscode?
are the Private data calls that I see in the event windows audios?
I have seen other freqs that only show MS DATA, what is that?
which one seems the easiest one to try? for example L13 have only one neighbour but I dont see any activity at all not even a single channel

 

[seagravebuff60]

It looks like you have a lot of different information there, so it's hard to differentiate without further information. A location would help first, and then we can go from there. Then, we can focus on one system and site at a time. Are the systems identified in the Database?

How can I match the activity with the frequencies? should the freqs be near in the spectrum from the control channel?

I don't understand the question. The additional channel IDs should be automatically found once tuned to the Control Channel in VC/CC Monitor Mode. Then, you need to calculate the frequencies. I recommend using the DMR T3 Calculator.

How do I know if im separating correctly the area.site in the syscode?

In the .Frequencies file, you need to format the info correctly. Below is the correct format:
; protocol, networkID, siteNumber, OTAchannelNumber, TXfrequency, RXfrequency, sortOrder [, DCC]

are the Private data calls that I see in the event windows audios?

No, they are data calls, no audio.

 

[cg]

I think the L13 will be the easiest to figure out because it uses a band plan.
There are 2 ways to number channels (or technically slots with DSDPlus) in Tier III systems.
First is channels and frequencies matched by the system manager, so channels might be 1/2, 3/4, 15/16, 23/24 etc. They may skip channels but the key is that channel numbers cannot be calculated from the frequencies, you must match and ID each frequency with the correct channel number.. Your H1 uses this way of channel numbering.
The second way is using a band plan. this is much more common for TIII in the US but perhaps not in your country. Those channel numbers are much larger and appear random. It is, however, the easiest to figure out (most of the time). Your L13 uses this method. (however, I do not know what the double control channel is about). I did a quick band plan calculation and the base would be 164.9875 (Ch 1/2) and the step would be .0125. I prefer to use Excel and create a bandplan spreadsheet but there are online calculators too.

So if you sit on one of those two L13 control channels, let the channel numbers populate and then post them or figure out the channels yourself, the results need to go into the DSDPlus.FREQUENCIES file just as you have entered the first two you have (775 & 787).

As for matching up the other systems, you need to keep documenting everything. You can sit on a control channel in Passive Monitoring mode and try to look for spikes appearing when you see a transmission in the channel activity window. If you have a second SDR or scanner, you can tune it to a previous voice spike and wait and see if something matches with voice channel activity.

Also watch for signal strength of voice channels and see if you can pair the spike size with a control channel size. This is very general and works best with really strong signals or some weak signals.