Dane County: P25 VHF trunking

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bc780l

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Conversations are getting off the topic for this thread, which is for Dane County's new system, which, if approved and actually built (technical RFP not due out until 2008 now), is for all Dane Co agencies and users--not just a backbone. The State system will eventually be more than a backbone, too.

To keep things clear, perhaps it would be best to split some off and start a new thread for the State's interoperability system?
 

bc780l

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Update from the January meeting re: Governance and Cost-sharing RFP. Elert & Associates was selected, and a contract is being negotiated. A February kickoff can hopefully occur. Based on information from their web site, "Elert & Associates provides client-centered, vendor-neutral technology planning and implementation services to help organizations identify and carry out the most effective solutions to their technology needs."

We'll see. The Technical RFP is yet to come ...
 

sgtmatt

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Is this going to be encripted or clear, will conventional radios be able to scan w/ a regular radio?
 

bc780l

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Current standards are P25 trunking. As a result, I'm sure you'll see some encrypted talk groups (long overdue, too). To provide interoperability with entities which will not be participating in the new system (that will depend on the governance structure), as well as standard frequencies that will not be migrating to P25 (WISPERN, MARC, Point, EMS Advanced/Basic, etc.) those will remain status quo. How things will merge/interface with the Madison Trunking system will likely be further down the road. The RFP, when issued, will specify all of this and more.

Specifications will drive what radio you'll need for the new stuff. Current desires are eventually for migration to P25 Phase II whenever that becomes available, according to previously published documentation. That could take any number of forms, including protocol currently covered--or not--with GRE/Uniden P25 scanners.

Until the RFP is issued--and responded to--just about all is pure speculation for now. If the RFP were to be issued by October, 2008, I'm sure many would be happy, if not surprised. Implementation would likely be another year beyond the RFP award. Anyone have a crystal ball for sale?
 

bc780l

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Approval to Proceed

Press conference Wednesday, June 4th: Approval to proceed with $34 system. RFP should be issued momentarily, likely at: http://www.co.dane.wi.us/danedept/purch/rfpsbids/display.asp

See article at: http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/topstories/289812

New $34M emergency radio system in works in county

Bill Novak — 6/04/2008 12:33 pm

A hybrid emergency radio system planned for Dane County would enable separate units such as fire departments, police departments, EMS units and highway snowplow operators stay in constant touch with one another instead of having to go through "channels."

The $34 million project to construct the new radio system and replace the computer-aided communications system at the 911 center is the second most expensive capital project in the county's history, the most expensive being the $44 million courthouse.

County Executive Kathleen Falk, Sheriff Dave Mahoney and representatives of the county's fire and EMS departments announced the radio project at a press conference Wednesday.

"This new system means our firefighters, police officers and deputies, emergency medical technicians, snowplow operators and even school officials will be able to talk to each other with the flip of a switch," Falk said. "Front line responders said they needed this system, so we are committed to building it."

Falk spokesman Joshua Westcott told The Capital Times the hybrid radio system will literally be built from the ground up.

"It will include everything, from transmitters and receivers to the dishes and cables," Westcott said.

Because Dane County has both rural and urban areas, big lakes and hills, the Wisconsin River at one corner and the isthmus across the middle, the unique landscape called for a unique solution.

"To do it the way the front-line people want it to work, we need to build a hybrid system," Westcott said.

Requests for proposals to construct the new radio system went out Wednesday. Contractors will have until Sept. 11 to submit proposals, with construction of the new system to begin within two years.

Sept. 11, the Stoughton tornado and the massive interstate traffic jam during a blizzard in February were prime reasons showing how much an all-encompassing communications system was needed.

"The ability of front-line responders to be able to effectively communicate with each other was one of the lessons learned from the horrific attacks of September 11, 2001," Falk said. "In Dane County, we saw this firsthand during the 2005 Stoughton tornado and again with the state-led response to the February backup on the interstate."

Westcott said the radio system would be so precise that first-in crews would be able to talk to each other on one of the system's radio bands.

"A search team in a tornado could be assigned to one channel so they could talk to each other," he said.

The new radio system will cost $30 million, while the 911 center's computer-aided dispatch upgrade would cost $4 million. The computer-aided dispatch system gives location coordinates when calls come in, plus additional information related to a specific 911 call, and then it's sent out to emergency responders from the 911 center.
 

bc780l

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Updated article from the Wisconsin State Journal:
http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/289811

Dane County to spend more than $30 million on emergency radio system

By SANDY CULLEN and MATTHEW DeFOUR
THU., JUN 5, 2008 - 12:38 AM

Dane County plans to invest $34.2 million in a new radio system that would allow all police, fire and EMS agencies in the county to communicate with each other.

But that price tag doesn't include an estimated $20 million for the 6,500 radios that will be needed by emergency responders and other end-users of the system, including Madison, Dane County and smaller municipalities. And those municipalities and agencies that don't agree to buy the radios would be left out of the communications loop.

Officials from five Dane County groups representing fire and police chiefs, EMS workers, towns, cities and villages — but not the city of Madison — told County Executive Kathleen Falk the county should pay their members' portion of the bill.

In a joint statement Wednesday, the five associations applauded Falk for planning to upgrade the system but said "we believe the proposal is dangerously incomplete because it does not include funding of all end-user equipment. Without that funding, some of the smaller agencies in Dane County can't afford the upgrade. There will be gaps in the system, gaps which will compromise public safety."

"We need a whole system here," said Fitchburg Mayor Tom Clauder, president of the Dane County Cities & Villages Association. But Falk, who said Wednesday that the county is issuing a request for bids to select a contractor to build the network, said municipalities will have to buy their own radios. She said they would have to replace them by 2013 anyway because the Federal Communications Commission is changing the frequencies available for emergency transmissions.

Falk said the county could help municipalities seek grant money for new radios.

The $34.2 million the county plans to spend will be its second-largest capital investment ever, behind the $44 million the county spent to build the new courthouse, Falk said. It includes $30 million for the core radio system and $4.2 million to upgrade the Dane County 911 center's computer system to handle it. She couldn't say how much taxes might be increased to pay for the system, which has been in her capital budget plan for the last two years and will require borrowing from 2009 through 2011.

Falk spokesman Joshua Wescott said talks with the associations are continuing. Consultants are working to identify ways in which the estimated $1.5 million annual operating and maintenance costs might be equitably shared, he said.

The actual total cost to replace the radios isn't known. A survey has been sent to determine what the actual needs will be. The system will take four years to build, and it will take six months to select a company to build it. The request for proposals was sent out this week to meet the 2013 deadline.

Revenue limits

Clauder said some municipalities also are concerned that state limits on how much revenue they can raise in taxes will prevent them from buying the new equipment.

Fitchburg Fire Chief Randy Pickering, a member of the 911 center board's technology committee, said there is "a huge concern" by the five associations that they will be cut out of the new system because they can't afford the equipment.

"The mantra is nobody gets left behind," Pickering said, adding that the people involved in implementing the new system are committed to finding a solution.

Basic equipment

The $20 million estimate reflects only the basic equipment needed to be compatible with the new county system, Pickering said. Some cities, such as Fitchburg and Madison, are budgeting for more expensive equipment, but smaller agencies aren't expected to make the same investment, Pickering said.

Radios for the city of Madison account for about half of the $20 million estimate, but the city already anticipates upgrading its radio system for police, fire, ambulance, public works, Metro Transit and other services. Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz said the city plans to spend $20 million in 2010 and 2011 on the equipment — a higher-end version of what is needed for the new countywide system. It's expected to be the city's largest capital expense over the next five years, Cieslewicz said.

"If I could get the county to pay for it, I'd say great," Cieslewicz said. "But I'm just sort of realistic of where that was going."

Cieslewicz noted that Madison property taxpayers will end up funding the radio system either way. "They're either going to pay for it in the city share of their property tax bill, or pay for it in the county share," he said.

'Critical' system

Pickering called the new system "critical" to dealing with emergencies involving responders from multiple agencies, such as the 2005 Stoughton-area tornado and the massive Interstate 39-90 traffic jam during a February blizzard.

The radio system also will allow emergency responders to communicate with other service providers, such as snowplow drivers, highway departments and water utilities. Stoughton Fire Chief Martin Lamers, who was an incident commander during February's traffic jam, said he tried to communicate with a snowplow driver who was 100 meters away but couldn't because their radio systems didn't mesh.

Lamers, who is also vice president of the Dane County Fire Chiefs Association, was among the officials who met with Falk last week to ask her to provide the additional money.

Members of his association have indicated that if they had to choose between buying a new fire truck or new radios, they're going to pick the fire truck, he said.

------------------------
Note that the County Public Safety Communications Center Board still hasn't published their minutes of the meeting that approved this. Sometime ... at: http://www.co.dane.wi.us/committees/agendas.asp nor is the RFP published on the public site yet. Also, where is the analysis from the Governance RFP (cost sharing and management proposals)??
 

bc780l

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bc780l

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Support Documents

The Federal Engineering studies and reports are RFP support documents (and interesting information) that have now been posted on the RFP web site. Interested parties should check back according to the schedule listed in the RFP for question/reply documents after the planned conferences, as well as the minutes web site for any informational updates.
 

1268

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I agree the minutes where kind of ugly. I was not that impressed with the RFP...Little surprised there staying with VHF voice paging there is a huge push in other parts of the country to go alpha or other alternatives.
I think it would help if they got rid of there mix of GE and Moto tones and just put together a nice quick call 2 system with some Centracom paging consoles. This RFP screams Moto but who knows ?
 

bc780l

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Update: The Interoperability System RFP deadline has been extended to 9/19/8. There are now 14 documents posted.

A new RFP has just been issued, "Public Safety Radio Communications Interoperability Implementation Services," due 10/15/8.

All documents are viewable at http://www.danepurchasing.com/bids.aspx
 

bc780l

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Municipalities want County to Pay for Radios

http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/topstories/308203
Suburban communities press Dane County to buy new emergency radios

Kristin Czubkowski — 10/06/2008 6:08 pm
Dozens of police, fire and emergency service officers from throughout the county gathered Monday afternoon to press Dane County Executive Kathleen Falk to add $6.3 million more to her budget for emergency service radios.
The radios are part of a communications system that would be put in place by 2013, but representatives from the county's local governments say it's something that needs to be planned for now.
Falk had included funding for the "mechanicals" -- the radio towers, computer hardware and software -- of the new radio system in the county budget she unveiled on Oct. 1, but she has said she would not put the radios themselves in the budget, leaving them to individual communities.
"We applaud Kathy Falk for being willing to do what she has done so far," said Mark Hazelbaker, lawyer for the Dane County Towns' Association. "We just have a difference of vision and a difference of opinion about this. Kathy is viewing this proposal, this project as an extension of the 911 Center. We're viewing the 911 Center and telecommunications as a seamless web. The 911 Center will be an almost useless pile of junk if it can't really coordinate communications among the departments."
From the hijacked airplanes hitting the World Trade Center in New York on Sept. 11, 2001, to a tornado hitting Stoughton in 2005 and a snow and fog storm causing backups for more than 10 hours on Interstate 39-90 last winter, local officials stressed the importance of "interoperability" between radios throughout local governments in order to better coordinate responses on a large scale.
"The scale of these events have grown and grown and grown where we bring in multiple players. We need to make sure that this system is interoperable from county line to county line," said Blooming Grove Fire Chief and Dane County Fire Chiefs Association President Glenn Linsmeier.
The current system, which Linsmeier said is held together by "Band-Aids and patches," allows local responders to reach responders from other communities by being patched through the county's 911 Center, but the new system would allow for more direct communication. This system would help prevent problems such as those experienced on Interstate 39-90 last winter when responders mere feet away from each other could not get in touch electronically.
The entire new system of radios, which will go to not only emergency services, but departments of public works and other local agencies, will require approximately 7,700 radios. The coalition of town, city and village officials said, however, that they were willing to compromise in tough economic times by only asking for radios for emergency services, or about 2,500 radios, at a total cost of $6.3 million to the county.
Members of the coalition said leaving the purchase of the radios, which cost about $2,500 each, to individual communities would mean that some wouldn't buy them, creating holes in the countywide system.
"This is a unique situation in that it is one of those services that if it isn't provided across the board properly, it isn't provided at all," Hazelbaker said.
But Falk spokesman Josh Wescott said the county executive has made "an incredible commitment" by paying for the radio system's infrastructure, which will cost $12 million in 2009 and $34 million total, the largest capital investment by the county aside from the county courthouse. Moreover, he said Falk has offered to buy the radios in bulk to get the best deal, and allow communities to purchase them from the county, even offering loans to those who have not saved enough for the radios.
To suggest that county taxpayers should have to pay for local communities' radios, however, Wescott said is an unprecedented move. He added that the county has been talking about implementing a new, state-of-the-art radio system since 2002, when the federal government told communities that they needed to be more conscious of the bandwidth their radios use. Communities have had plenty of time to save for buying the radios, he said.

"We don't buy boots for their firefighters," Wescott said, adding that it is an issue of "fairness and equity."
The request appeared to have support from County Board supervisors outside Madison Monday afternoon. Bob Salov, a County Board supervisor who also serves as an emergency medical technician in Cambridge, said he would be introducing -- along with Supervisors Dennis O'Loughlin of DeForest and Jack Martz of Fitchburg -- an amendment to add funding for the radios during County Board discussions on the budget.
The news conference was attended by more than 50 government, police, fire and emergency response officials. Robert Van Etten, Jr., the volunteer fire chief for Monona, said he has been pushing for a better communication system between emergency responders for two years now. The big advantages of the county implementing the system, he said, include being able to achieve economies of scale and saving on administrative costs by one government purchasing the radios one time. Moreover, with all local residents paying county taxes, "We're going to have to pay for it one way or another," he said.
"This is something that we strongly believe in," said Linsmeier. "If you look across this parking lot today, this was just one short e-mail and a couple of phone calls. The support for this has been growing over the past two years and will continue to grow."

Kristin Czubkowski — 10/06/2008 6:08 pm
 
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