Discussion: FCC Advisory on Two-Way VHF/UHF Radios

[alcahuete]

In this case, I would hope you're smart enough not to make "100%" assertions on matters outside your field of expertise.

Few, if any, CCRs come with airband transmit capability, and fewer still are preprogrammed for it. Virtually all of them will transmit on public safety frequencies right out of the box. And I guarandamntee you that it happens. I see it often enough. And I'm pretty sure I know why you haven't.

I'm not talking about the airband (which is only a tiny portion of where interference occurs anyway). I'm talking about what I've been told directly from the spectrum management and spectrum enforcement folks in regards to public safety frequencies and interference in general. Most of them know what they're talking about, so I would have a tendency to believe them over unsubstantiated claims about an influx of interference.

The majority of interference for us comes from licensed and unlicensed FM broadcast band radio stations, with the occassional mix of ham radio and other sources.

 

[AK9R]

Educate users. Hard to do, people don't like being told "no".

Which is why I've been going to hamfests and radio club meetings, setting up my spectrum analyzer, and offering to test handheld radios for spurious emissions. Some folks are appreciative of what I'm doing. Some folks think I'm an elitist who wants people to spend as much money on radios as I have. Some folks think I'm the "radio police" intent on confiscating their radios. I'm just there to educate and inform people. Like the guy with the Baofeng UV-82HP that I tested at the Bloomington (Indiana) Hamfest last Saturday. A screen capture of the resulting spectrum analyzer screen is attached.

If you read the document from the FCC, they make it clear that Amateur radio/part 97 use is OK, if the radios are marketed, sold and used as such.

There's one additional stipulation in the FCC's advisory:

Amateur Radio Exception. There is one exception to this certification requirement: if a device is capable of operating only on frequencies that the FCC has allocated for use by Amateur Radio Service licensees, it does not require FCC equipment authorization, and an amateur licensee may use his or her license to operate such radios. ...If a two-way VHF/UHF radio is capable of operating outside of the amateur frequency bands, it cannot be imported, advertised, sold, or operated within the United States without an FCC equipment certification.

That one statement clearly makes many of these inexpensive radios non-compliant with the FCC's rules. It's now up to the FCC to take enforcement action.

 

[kayn1n32008]

lLike the guy with the Baofeng UV-82HP that I tested at the Bloomington (Indiana) Hamfest last Saturday. A screen capture of the resulting spectrum analyzer screen is attached.

Sadly I have conversed with VE’s that could care less about spectral purity, or audio quality.


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[riccom]

I bet you if the radios had. Motorola sticker on them, then they would never look for issues with them like they do with the baofeng radios,

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[kayn1n32008]

I bet you if the radios had. Motorola sticker on them, then they would never look for issues with them like they do with the baofeng radios,

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Not sure where you are going with this, but the garbage that Baoturd radio spew out are a good reason to look for issues. That and their blatant refusal to adhere to the regulation requirements of the amateur and LMR services. Never mind the fake approval stickers found on some radios.


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[KK4JUG]

Not sure where you are going with this, but the garbage that Baoturd radio spew out are a good reason to look for issues. That and their blatant refusal to adhere to the regulation requirements of the amateur and LMR services. Never mind the fake approval stickers found on some radios.


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...and the Chinese manufacturers took advantage of the heretofore lax enforcement by our government.

 

[KevinC]

I bet you if the radios had. Motorola sticker on them, then they would never look for issues with them like they do with the baofeng radios,

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Not sure where you are going with this, but the garbage that Baoturd radio spew out are a good reason to look for issues. That and their blatant refusal to adhere to the regulation requirements of the amateur and LMR services. Never mind the fake approval stickers found on some radios.


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Because...Motorola...duh!

I can't fathom people completely dismissing the fact that these don't meet the type certification.

 

[kayn1n32008]

...and the Chinese manufacturers took advantage of the heretofore lax enforcement by our government.

Would not expect anything less. That’s capitalism for you. Bend and break the rules as far as you can, to make as much money as you can, until you get caught, then beg for forgiveness.


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[KK4JUG]

Would not expect anything less. That’s capitalism for you. Bend and break the rules as far as you can, to make as much money as you can, until you get caught, then beg for forgiveness.

...and give me some money so I can save my business!

 

[kayn1n32008]

Because...Motorola...duh!



I can't fathom people completely dismissing the fact that these don't meet the type certification.

But they are cheap!!! Cheap hams justify it by saying that they can throw it away if it breaks, or if they lose it while ‘hiking’ or ‘biking’. SMH, of course they won’t care if they lose or dunk a $20 POS Baofeng.

I use brand name LMR gear, both at work and for ham radio. I have not dunked a radio, or ‘lost’ one while working in the bush, or while doing public service.


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[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Because...Motorola...duh!

I can't fathom people completely dismissing the fact that these don't meet the type certification.

And that none of these "low parts count" Chinese radios are tested to meet or exceed industry standards TIA/EIA603D like the Motorola's, Harris, EFJohnson are tested to. Even the Japanese LMR radios meet those specs.

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[kayn1n32008]

...and give me some money so I can save my business!

Ahhh good old corporate welfare, forgot about that.


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[kayn1n32008]

And that none of these "low parts count" Chinese radios are tested to meet or exceed industry standards TIA/EIA603D like the Motorola's, Harris, EFJohnson are tested to. Even the Japanese LMR radios meet those specs.

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My guess is a Baoturd QA/QC test jig is a 10w lightbulb on a SMA connector, and a battery eliminator. Does it light up when you press the PTT? Yes? Box it and ship it to some dumb ham in the US. No? Throw it out. TIA/EIA693D? What’s that??? We don’t need to specs.


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[mancow]

It a similar path that was taken with firearms regulations. A regulatory/enforcement agency is allowed to act as a pseudo Congress to create law at will. Build an AK from too many imported parts and you lose your family, wealth, and freedom, although it's the exact same device functionally as any other.



People are skeptical and start to wonder if the trade off of personal freedom is really worth the stated threat or are they being lied to again.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

It a similar path that was taken with firearms regulations. A regulatory/enforcement agency is allowed to act as a pseudo Congress to create law at will. Build an AK from too many imported parts and you lose your family, wealth, and freedom, although it's the exact same device functionally as any other.



People are skeptical and start to wonder if the trade off of personal freedom is really worth the stated threat or are they being lied to again.

I think it is more like those "Saturday night specials". Cheap handguns made of pot metal that were just as likely to kill or maim their owner.

There is nothing in FCC rules prohibiting a Ham licensee from building their own radio. The only limitatio is the OOBE, the spec those BaoFengs exceed.

BaoFengs sold commercially to Hams must meet OOBE requirements, Part 15 requirements, and cannot be programmed outside of Ham bands.

My prediction? In the next year, AMCREST will "comply" by programming random Ham 2M and 70 CM frequencies in all their remaining stock , continue to sell to the unwashed masses, and it will now be the Ham radio communities new problem child.

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[mmckenna]

My prediction? In the next year, AMCREST will "comply" by programming random Ham 2M and 70 CM frequencies in all their remaining stock , continue to sell to the unwashed masses, and it will now be the Ham radio communities new problem child.

Part of me really hopes that comes to pass. While I'm a licensed amateur myself, I still enjoy watching the Karma Bus make it's rounds.
Then the ARRL can freak out and switch into panic mode, as they tend to do so well.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Part of me really hopes that comes to pass. While I'm a licensed amateur myself, I still enjoy watching the Karma Bus make it's rounds.
Then the ARRL can freak out and switch into panic mode, as they tend to do so well.

They will send out another urgent mailer asking for more contributions to the Save our Spectrum fund.

 

[bharvey2]

My prediction? In the next year, AMCREST will "comply" by programming random Ham 2M and 70 CM frequencies in all their remaining stock , continue to sell to the unwashed masses, and it will now be the Ham radio communities new problem child.

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I think you nailed it!

 

[AK9R]

In the next year, AMCREST will "comply" by programming random Ham 2M and 70 CM frequencies in all their remaining stock , continue to sell to the unwashed masses...

The FCC has said "If a two-way VHF/UHF radio is capable of operating outside of the amateur frequency bands, it cannot be imported, advertised, sold, or operated within the United States without an FCC equipment certification." If the radio can still be programmed to operate outside the amateur radio bands, then it would appear to still be non-compliant. Wouldn't a firmware change be required to make the radios compliant? I don't think just programming the radios for amateur radio frequencies solves the problem.

 

[mmckenna]

Wouldn't a firmware change be required to make the radios compliant? I don't think just programming the radios for amateur radio frequencies solves the problem.

Or, clipping a jumper, removing a resistor, multi-key press with power on, like the many of the current MARS/CAP modifications?