Donations will now be subscriptions

[blantonl]

Folks,

My patience is running dangerously short on this issue. If you don't like the direction that this site is taking, don't participate. There has been entirely too much time and effort put into this site for a select few to ***** and whine about supporting the site.

If you don't see the value, then don't participate, it is that simple.

In these types of situations, I've found that there are always people that feel that they are owed something for nothing. That things should be placed on a silver platter, for free, with little or no effort on their part. Just look at Joesph11's comments.

Am I fustrated, disapointed, and frankly upset with how a select few of you are treating this issue? You bet? I've spent probably close to $10,000 of my own money developing and managing this web site, in addition to the countless hours. Time spent working on this web site, and frankly tackling issues such as these, is less time that I spend actually generating income for my family with my real job, and frankly less time with my family.

If you wonder why people often say "screw it" - you are seeing EXACTLY why.

 

[electricsheep]

Lindsay: Even thought I haven't donated any money, I have donated to the RR Database by submitting talkgroups and frequencies.

Sinner! :wink:

 

[blantonl]

Lindsay: Even thought I haven't donated any money, I have donated to the RR Database by submitting talkgroups and frequencies.

Great, and you've received talkgroups and frequencies from others free of charge, including a platform to promote your own web site, free of charge, and a platform to discuss posts (one thousand, one hundred and fourty two posts worth).... free of charge.

 

[Radio1114]

Lyndsay I won,t say anymore on the subject I will donate the difference at a later date,times are a little rough right now.I know you work very hard for the site and you deserve a pat on the back for that.But please take that post off about me being that amusemnt guy, I don,t deserve that either.I just want to get along on the site and help as much as I can.

 

[Denton]

blantonl, I think what people are looking for is a little transparency. Some of the communities I belong to have a section where they specifically indicate what their monthly costs are. For the most part, these costs are more than covered by donations. It's clear that you put a lot of time into this site but it's only fair to let everyone know what your monthly costs are when you start charging.

I also don't think you're being fair to Joseph. With over 1200 posts, I'm sure he's helped a lot of newbies (like me) along the way. If that's not contributing to the community I don't know what is.

 

[ctrl]

Wow, please excuse me if i'm out of line. But please consider that I'm your target audience.

Just my opinion but, I think this is going to slow down the 'donation' income. I'm sorry I cannot afford to buy a 'subscription' in that ammount, and I think a majority of other users will agree.

I was going to donate 5-10 bucks without even expecting anything in return (except the obvious forum/data base usage thats free), But I cannot afford to pay a fee every month.

Honestly, I think this is a bad decision. I was going to donate, but if its only going towards 90 worth of access, then I'm sorry i'll have to pass.

I would donate my last 5 bucks that I owned for a good cause, however I would not buy un-needed subscriptons with my last 5 bucks, no matter what.

Btw, What extra features, ect. Will be available for this ammount?

Edit; This was written before you changed your post. Sorry.

 

[blantonl]

Wow. I'm new here but in my opinion this subscription model is even worse and may even reduce the total amount of "donations" you receive. I'm guessing that a lot of people donated $5-$10 just to help support the site. These people may stop donating now that the donation system has become a subscription service.

I'm part of several different types of communities where we all provide help for free. It's great that you're keeping the information in the database and wiki free but $30/year is very expensive and can't be justified by citing server costs alone. I have no problem with people making a business out of a web service and I'm glad it's now being called a subscription service instead of voluntary donations, but I think you might want to reconsider the amount you're charging.

Denton,

It does not cost a penny to access any of the data on this web site. Currently, donating grants access to some value added services, such as MyRR, the Web service, PDF files, better reporting etc.

Considering that it works out to $2.50/month for access to the value added services, it is quite incomprehensible that someone even thinks this is an issue.

 

[blantonl]

blantonl, I think what people are looking for is a little transparency.

Why? So I can have a select contignent of members question every component of the way this business is run? There seems to be enough fuel for the fire of negativity without me pouring gas on the flames.

I also don't think you're being fair to Joseph. With over 1200 posts, I'm sure he's helped a lot of newbies (like me) along the way. If that's not contributing to the community I don't know what is.

I think I'm being more than fair to Joseph. He is actively and sarcastically questioning something that frankly doesn't pertain to him - it has no impact on him whatsoever. His ability to use this site in the manner that he has won't change a single bit, nor will it for any other member that has never contributed a dime to this site.

 

[amusement]

Folks,

My patience is running dangerously short on this issue. If you don't like the direction that this site is taking, don't participate. There has been entirely too much time and effort put into this site for a select few to ***** and whine about supporting the site.

If you don't see the value, then don't participate, it is that simple.

In these types of situations, I've found that there are always people that feel that they are owed something for nothing. That things should be placed on a silver platter, for free, with little or no effort on their part. Just look at Joesph11's comments.

Am I fustrated, disapointed, and frankly upset with how a select few of you are treating this issue? You bet? I've spent probably close to $10,000 of my own money developing and managing this web site, in addition to the countless hours. Time spent working on this web site, and frankly tackling issues such as these, is less time that I spend actually generating income for my family with my real job, and frankly less time with my family.

If you wonder why people often say "screw it" - you are seeing EXACTLY why.

I added value by updating WIKI's and creating new WIKI entries. Please review my contributions before attempting to swipe my courtious and humble request. Your discortious and sacarastic post was unnecessary and frankly beneath me.

I'm the customer who's asking the businessman for a refund. Not a punk attempt to raise your blood pressure. I made a sincere attempt to be respectful.

 

[Denton]

It does not cost a penny to access any of the data on this web site. Currently, donating grants access to some value added services, such as MyRR, the Web service, PDF files, better reporting etc.

I know and I applaud you for keeping these resources free

Considering that it works out to $2.50/month for access to the value added services, it is quite incomprehensible that someone even thinks this is an issue.

I disagree. $30 won't get anyone very far but not everyone can afford to spend that much. But since this fee is only for the value added services, I don't think the cost is that big of an issue. We can all still take part in the forum discussions and access the database/wiki so if someone feels that the value added features are worth $30 more power to them.

I think I'm being more than fair to Joseph. He is actively and sarcastically questioning something that frankly doesn't pertain to him - it has no impact on him whatsoever. His ability to use this site in the manner that he has won't change a single bit, nor will it for any other member that has never contributed a dime to this site.

Sorry, but telling him that he hasn't contributed to the site is not fair since he has contributed to the database.

I just don't agree with some of the comments you made regarding contributing to the community and the reason why this fee is necessary. However, my intention is not to attack you and I'm new here so I won't say anything more about this.

 

[Joseph11]

I think I'm being more than fair to Joseph. He is actively and sarcastically questioning something that frankly doesn't pertain to him - it has no impact on him whatsoever. His ability to use this site in the manner that he has won't change a single bit, nor will it for any other member that has never contributed a dime to this site.

Sarcastically? No.

I'm disappointed in you, Lindsay. When I first came to this site in 2004, it was paradise for scanning. I had no problem with you raising the donation limit (I was planning on donating money in the future), but this new subscription stuff is just insane. You shouldn't value donations over people contributing information to this site. Isn't information what actually makes RR what it is today?

 

[scannerfreak]

I think this is fair and what should have been done from the begining. Good Decision Lindsay! If you don't think the added services are worth $2.50 a month, then don't buy it. Seems simple enough to me

 

[blantonl]

Wow, please excuse me if i'm out of line. But please consider that I'm your target audience.

Just my opinion but, I think this is going to slow down the 'donation' income. I'm sorry I cannot afford to buy a 'subscription' in that ammount, and I think a majority of other users will agree.

ctrl, you are certianly well within your right (even here... :wink: ) to voice your oppinon.

I was going to donate 5-10 bucks without even expecting anything in return (except the obvious forum/data base usage thats free), But I cannot afford to pay a fee every month.

Honestly, I think this is a bad decision. I was going to donate, but if its only going towards 90 worth of access, then I'm sorry i'll have to pass.

I would donate my last 5 bucks that I owned for a good cause, however I would not buy un-needed subscriptons with my last 5 bucks, no matter what.

I don't understand how this is different, if you want to support the site and feel it provides value to you, and don't expect anything in return other than the services of the site, then why not purchase a subscription?

Your reasoning, other than your stubborness to pay for a service, doesn't quite make since to me. The reality is, there is not an unlimited supply of scanner listeners out there, and frankly donations have signifcantly slowed now that the donation "market" has be saturated. Meanwhile, my expenses and time increase over time. I either raise the donation limit and make it retroactive, or I go to a subscription model and give higher credit to previous donators to recognize the fact that they helped get us here in the first place.

Btw, What extra features, ect. Will be available for this ammount?

There are a lot of things planned, including PDF reports for conventional systems, better FCC reporting, email status changes, numerous additional extensions to the Web service, you name it...

Thanks for your thoughts and insights, and I hope I've been able to give some back as well.

Lindsay

 

[electricsheep]

If you don't think the added services are worth $2.50 a month, then don't buy it. Seems simple enough to me

Precisely. I have to ask how much consultation was done on this issue though with stakeholders, like people writing commercial software that utilizes the RR.com web service (and in turn leads to more eyeballs on rr.com)?

For me, the answer is no. I do not think the CURRENT added services are worth US$30 TO ME. But then again, Lindsay could have something amazing in mind for the future, and once again I may become a "contributing member" to the forums/database and community.

Here's looking to the future.

 

[amusement]

Amusement,

Is your name Wilf? Regards?

You are quite amusing -- in fact, you are quite insulting.

Repectfully amusement, your request is denied.

I am requesting a refund in a fashion, known to me, as respectfull.

 

[blantonl]

Sarcastically? No.

Yes Joseph11. Anyone that posts a first reply to a thread with "WTF?" on an issue such as this is being sarcastic at best.

I'm disappointed in you, Lindsay. When I first came to this site in 2004, it was paradise for scanning. I had no problem with you raising the donation limit (I was planning on donating money in the future), but this new subscription stuff is just insane.

Frankly Joseph, I'm disappointed in you. While I appreciate your kind comments, it is quite obvious that you don't understand in the least the concept of running a business.

You shouldn't value donations over people contributing information to this site. Isn't information what actually makes RR what it is today?

Yes I should, because if I don't have the money to cover costs associated with this site, and my time, then guess what? The information will be scattered all around on 500 different web sites, without centralized reporting and Web services abilities.

And furthermore Joseph, managing YOUR pissing contests in the NJ forums, whether you were right or wrong, has taken a tremendous amount of my time and effort to keep under control. So before you lecture me on how I should be appreciating data over money, you might consider that time and money form a foundation for how this site is run, and the oustanding information that you and others contribute to this database are built on top of that foundation.

 

[scannerfreak]

, and once again I may become a "contributing member" to the forums/database and community.

Here's looking to the future.

So, because you do not think the extra services are worth it, this means you will no longer participate in the forums and/or send in DB info? You guys are killin me. It's like he has aked you to pay for the DB. This is the type of reaction I would expect for that.

 

[Joseph11]

My pissing contests? Those members had the same exact problems with other members BEFORE I've even joined RR. Please don't place the blame on me for something I didn't do.

 

[kikito]

I do not think the CURRENT added services are worth US$30 TO ME. But then again, Lindsay could have something amazing in mind for the future, and once again I may become a "contributing member" to the forums/database and community.

Well don't pay! That simple!

Like it's been said many times already, the access to the forums, the frequency database, etc., will all remain FREE!.

 

[ctrl]

Lindsay, Understood.

The problem occurs with folks who financially cannot afford to purchase it, or do not see the benifits as being worth that much.

Might I suggest leaving an option open to donate ANY ammount with nothing in return.

Jim