EDACS Provoice

[PanJurekMrJerry]

:arrow: I thought that PrVoice was a propriety trunked system like Vector Sum Linear Excitation Program (VSELP) is. Thus you cannot make a scanner for it.

 

[N_Jay]

:arrow: I thought that PrVoice was a propriety trunked system like Vector Sum Linear Excitation Program (VSELP) is. Thus you cannot make a scanner for it.

The VOCODER used for Pro-Voice is a IMBE and can be licened from DVSI, unless they have araingments with M/A-COM not to sell that version.

Only those close to the companies would no for sure.

 

[kikito]

:arrow: I thought that PrVoice was a propriety trunked system like Vector Sum Linear Excitation Program (VSELP) is. Thus you cannot make a scanner for it.

And so is Motorola and EDACS in general and the P25 Vocoder from DVSI, inc.

Most of the time as long as a company gives other companies the option to pay for the rights to use their technoloogy, it all comes down to money as usual.... unless a patent runs out or something, but since I don't know much about the subject, I'll let others argue, err.... I mean discuss it!

 

[mr_hankey]

well, i think the upcoming release of the BC246 says alot about Uniden's immediate plans in the scanner market...

originally, i thought we would see a ProVoice capable scanner within 3 years...

now i'm beginning to doubt we will EVER see one.

but as much as we hate it, cutting out the "off-the-shelf-scanner hobbyist" is about as good as most departments are going to have it, since hardcore hobbyists have no qualms buying REAL radios and programming them to continue listening.

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

:arrow: Well yeah that works too but then you need a different radio for every local system that you want to monitor. Besides, what do you do? Just go to your local city hall and say that you wanna buy a radio. Now-a-days, with Home Land Security they will look @ you funny and if you lucky, you will NOT have to spend the night courtesy of YOUR TAX DOLLARS.

 

[wwhitby]

Maybe it was "who" you were asking?

Quite true. The people who "are in the know" will never divulge their information until new scanners come out.

Warren[/quote]

 

[N_Jay]

Maybe it was "who" you were asking?

Quite true. The people who "are in the know" will never divulge their information until new scanners come out.

Warren

[/quote]

And many who act like they are "in the know", are NOT! :twisted:

 

[emtLarmy15]

:arrow: I thought that PrVoice was a propriety trunked system like Vector Sum Linear Excitation Program (VSELP) is. Thus you cannot make a scanner for it.

Just for Clarification Pro-Voice itself is not a trunked system. EDACS is a trunked system. Pro-voice is just a feature of EDACS. All Pro-voice is is digital voice.
Most of the current GRE scanners will show Pro-voice talkgroups. The scanner just recognizes this as digital noise and does not open the channel up. The only thing the scanner manufactures would need to do is use the proper vo-coder to decode the digital voice, and voila, you can listen to pro-voice.
As I have said before, I doubt it will happen...but someone made a point that if the money was right M/A com would probably allow it, and thats probably true. And it might be worth the money for Uniden, GRE ect at some point in the future cause there are alot more pro-voice systems popping up.
Not trying to be smart, just making sure Jerry understands.

Chris

 

[wwhitby]

And many who act like they are "in the know", are NOT! :twisted:

I can remember one individual (I won't name names, but he's been around scanning for a while) poo-pahed the idea of a scanner ever being available to follow Motorola trunked systems. Kind of like the old "it will never fly" statement.

 

[wwhitby]

well, i think the upcoming release of the BC246 says alot about Uniden's immediate plans in the scanner market...

originally, i thought we would see a ProVoice capable scanner within 3 years...

now i'm beginning to doubt we will EVER see one.

I wouldn't give up hope Mr. Hankey. From what I read, the 246 and the other scanners are new, updated replacements for Uniden scanners, like the BC245. I also remember seeing a post on one of Lindsay's forums that said Uniden was going to restart R&D on a ProVoice scanner.

Personally, I think that we will see a ProVoice scanner one day.

Warren

 

[PJH]

Really it also comes down to....

Is it worth the investment?

Why go out and take the time for R&D, licensing etc for a handful of systems? ProVoice may take off or may be short lived as VSLEP was.

Other than the system may cost less than the other mainstream products, the goal lately is for users to be able to talk to each other with little or no 3rd party intervention. This is the problem that system managers are facing...

If I have brand x radio, what will I have to do so that my users can talk to brand y? What will it cost? Is it worth it? Should I spend a little more/less on brand y?

EDACS itself most likely isn't going away anytime soon like all the Type II systems out there. However where grant money and state/federal mandates come into play, the only choice may be a APCO25 complaint system...which is neither EDACS, Type II or OpenSky - But an APCO25 conventional system or 9600 Trunked system.

So, with that said....the IMBE codec that was selected is an OPEN standard so that anyone willing to pay the licensing fee can have it. VSLEP is propriatary to Motorola. ProVoice is a IMBE based codec developed for MA/COM as is OpenSky's AMBE. Depending on how popular the "other than APCO" systems sell, and where they are located will dictate a scanner based on them.

As for the comment about going out and buying a radio and programming it up, those days are slowly coming to an end as well. OpenSky has some pretty specific security features that will not allow a radio to Rx even if programmed properly...it needs to be activated via the central controller or via a software key. Motorola also introduced a similar system. My new XTL5000's are defined by Serial number, Model number, flashcode AND ESN (like cell phones). They have also introduced limited system keys for trunked systems as well. No more basement flashing (for now at least!)

 

[Thayne]

I think ProVoice will be around, only because it mostly integrates seamlessly with the existing EDACS Systems.

From what I have seen the last few weeks thanks to my Romanian computer geek, (daughters boyfriend) and the new scope I bought, ProVoice is VERY much like APCO 25 & it seems to sound a bit better.

However, since everything is driven by money, not many people care if some hamsexy can track ProVoice with 2 radios with discriminator taps and a PC with some software dreamed up in 3 weeks by some kid.

When Moto and Tyco can sell these digital trunking radios for 2 grand & up to Govt agencies BECAUSE THEY CAN; yet we can get a cell fone that contains much more "technology" for peanuts after the carriers subsidize the cost--that tells the story for me.

Since most people don't care about listening to radio communications as much as they care about listening to Shania or Puff Daddy, Uniden does not have to worry like RIAA does about MP3's.

Like the Dynamic memory allocation that Uniden finally is going to use in the 246T or whatever--it is not new technology--they are just going to give the customer a quick lick of the honeypot.

It is possible to build a radio that is modularly constructed and completely software congurable, and could hear from DC to light--but who would buy it?

OK
The limes are here to go with the Coronas
Bye

 

[scan-pa]

Re: EDACS-ProVoice

The only issue, mr hankey, is when EDACS ProVoice Digital System's and users begin using radio's with Smart-cards inside them, then even attempting to listen to said systems with hacked access will have the radio denied access almost imediatly. I am thinking, Uniden will devolope a ProVoice friendly scanner soon, they already were first to do Open Sky. But what's more important then ProVoice is the ability to track Multi-net LTR. In My Book. Which will be scannable first?!!

Uniden does not have the ability to decode Open Sky, M/A Com will not sell or lease the vocader information to decode Open Sky or ProVoice, you can spend 1200 bucks and get a Monitor for Open Sky from M/A Com, but you have to get it programmed by the Users Programming Dept.

Uniden also got turned down for the PROVoice Vocader Info.

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

This is becasue like everything else where capitalism is concerned; security sells after 09/11/2001. So if they ca nkeep unauthorized users from listening so that they can make more money selling a SECURE system; then they will.

 

[N_Jay]

This is becasue like everything else where capitalism is concerned; security sells after 09/11/2001. So if they ca nkeep unauthorized users from listening so that they can make more money selling a SECURE system; then they will.

As old police cars get retired, whjy NOT purchase police cars that can run on diesel and/or biodisel. Wouldn't this be cheaper?

Can you explain to me any advantage to a radio company to open their protocols to a scanner mfg?

And; NO, diesel or bio-diesel cars would not be cheaper, because if they were cheaper someone would be doing it. (How about cabs, they have more cost concerns that police)

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

The advantage? Yes, I can explain this. Becasue eventually you may NOT know what is going on except what THEY want you to know through media and other outlets. Or maybe they just do NOT want anybody ro know. That is getting closer to ABSOLUTE power.

 

[scan-pa]

PROvoice / Open Sky: The new Secret Police Radio vocoder of choice!

 

[Thayne]

What is a "Vocader" Maybe a locator for a vocoder??

 

[N_Jay]

The advantage? Yes, I can explain this. Becasue eventually you may NOT know what is going on except what THEY want you to know through media and other outlets. Or maybe they just do NOT want anybody ro know. That is getting closer to ABSOLUTE power.

One more time:
Can you explain to me any advantage TO A RADIO COMPANY to open their protocols to a scanner mfg?

 

[N_Jay]

PROvoice / Open Sky: The new Secret Police Radio vocader of choice!

With ProVoice, the issue today may be the vocoder, but with OpenSky no one has the protocol at all.