EDACS Provoice

[scan-pa]

What is a "Vocader" Maybe a locator for a vocoder??

thanks Thayne, love my spell checker.

 

[PJH]

Which all brings back to the point....why bother buying the system and radio's if you can't talk to anyone else?

 

[mr_hankey]

Which all brings back to the point....why bother buying the system and radio's if you can't talk to anyone else?

in the hopes that you can convince everyone else to UPGRADE to talk to you...

 

[scan-pa]

Which all brings back to the point....why bother buying the system and radio's if you can't talk to anyone else?

you just answered your own question. Public safety people want closed radio systems, not open ones. Thats what Interop frequencies are for.

 

[PJH]

Trust me, closed systems are not the first thing on our minds. Cost, flexibilty, service, parts, you name it. There are some state agencies that have that mindset, but it is not on the top of the list.

The first thought on our minds is not how to screw the scanner listeners. I am a very big proponet of leaving day to day comms in the clear. Sensitive operations get the secure equipment or talkgroups, but it is unnesseary everywhere else.

Why bother shelling out an addition $700 per UNIT (never mind the site hardware if needed) when I can spend that money better in infracture or system add-ons/enhancements/toys etc.

Take DE's system. There is no reason to equipt all the troops with encyption. Yes, equipt the units that really need it. The state of CT did the same thing. All comms are in the clear, but each district and certain sensitive personell got it. That's what its there for. Using the CSP as an example, each trooper has a take home car, and portable radio. That's approx 1200 troopers x 2 radios + spares + secondary agency uses x $650 = $1,690,000. Now, add in overtime costs, site costs, radio shop cost, infracture costs (if needed) and your well above that number. I think a cool $2mil can be used elsewhere.

The reason why you are also seeing a more widespead use, is due to the digital migration. Secure audio over the air sucked...those who have heard it know what I am talking about. With digital, the radio's encyption chip no longer needs to do the digital conversion then encypted it. It just encypts the already digital data stream so that the audio quaility remains the same.

Now, aside from all that mumbo jumbo, OpenSky on paper looks to be a nice system. Does pretty much what 9600CC systems are capable of. Motorola has radio's and devices out that does the same thing as MA/COM, and are IP enabled products. Wait until you see what the new XTL control heads look like. Pretty cool looking.

 

[SCPD]

FYI provoice is GFSK Modulation, The jaguar 700P,jaguar 700Pi ,P7100IP & P5100 also do C4FM P25 on conventional

 

[SCPD]

As Ma/Com Knows There Own Radio Can
Be Used To Monitor Provoice And Are Very
Ez To Buy I Give Ma/com 5 Years And
There Provoice And Esk Fame Will Be Over
And Thay Will Sell There Ticket To Uniden
And On The other Side Of The Coin Thay
Will Offer a New Digtal Soltion For More
Millions Of Dollars To The Old Contracts
Money Will Buy It All If You Have It.
If Not Dame O Dame Your Sol
Rember It Cat And Mouse Game
If A Radio Was Good For Ever Ma/com
Whould Not Be In Bussness
You Must Create And Sell Crap
And When It Old Sell Newer Crap
And Make More Money...................
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[2wayfreq]

This is the thing. MA/COMM currently will not license or has plans to release information about the ProVoice Vocoder. So Uniden,GRE Etc dont have any way of adding the ProVoice recieve capability into their scanners. All you can hope for at this moment is a Jaguar-700P LPE-200 with Option 29 already in it. And, the system you monitoring doesnt have the control channel encrypted.

 

[SCPD]

reverse engineer? like they did with EDACS,EDACS trunking was reverse engineered also if anyone needs a provoice Jaguar or LPE-200 I sell them,contact me in private

 

[Thayne]

I noticed that the DSP chip that is used in the PRO-96 only costs about $15.00. (Arrow Electronics) Also on TI website they have mucho info about how to use them, and also sell developer's kits for writing codecs, etc.

Anybody on here ever play around with DSP's. ?? Since we now have both APCO-25 and ProVoice systems available for comparison, maybe some data streams could be saved and used to do a little reverse engineering ?

Any ideas?

 

[Thayne]

Come on Brainiacs!

 

[12VoltInstaller]

IMBE Improved MultiBand Excited

 

[eyes00only]

Come on Brainiacs!

I CONCUR :roll:

Jerry

 

[DaveH]

I noticed that the DSP chip that is used in the PRO-96 only costs about $15.00. (Arrow Electronics) Also on TI website they have mucho info about how to use them, and also sell developer's kits for writing codecs, etc.

Anybody on here ever play around with DSP's. ?? Since we now have both APCO-25 and ProVoice systems available for comparison, maybe some data streams could be saved and used to do a little reverse engineering ?

Any ideas?

DSP hardware is cheap. It's the algorithms and the software to implement them that are the expensive/complicated part.

As for reverse-engineering, it's a common misconception that you can figure out how something works just by looking at its outputs. Sure, you may be able to get a good idea if you spend enough time, but there will always be behaviour that you won't see that remains hidden.

...

From back in the thread, I believe VSELP stands for Vector Sum Excited Linear Prediction. Anybody rememeber the TI Speak'N Spell? That was one of the (if not) first commercial applications of LPC. Voice sounded like a Swede with a head-cold, but the speech needed something like 1200-2400bps.

Dave

 

[Thayne]

I STILL think if there was some sure money in it that it could be done; but I sure as heck am not smart enough to do it.

ProVoice is just another variation of IMBE, so wouldn't that make it a little easier??

If I find the right, bored BRAINIAC around here, watch out :lol:


(I have no scruples about bribing a BRAINIAC, but unfortunately I only have beer and a small amount of money to bribe with, and as we all know BRAINIACS don't care about that!)

 

[N_Jay]

I STILL think if there was some sure money in it that it could be done; but I sure as heck am not smart enough to do it.

ProVoice is just another variation of IMBE, so wouldn't that make it a little easier??

If I find the right, bored BRAINIAC around here, watch out :lol:


(I have no scruples about bribing a BRAINIAC, but unfortunately I only have beer and a small amount of money to bribe with, and as we all know BRAINIACS don't care about that!)

You don't need a Brainiac.

Just buy a development kit from DVSI.

 

[Thayne]

They have already hosed enough people, I don't want to add to their "Filthy Lucre" :wink:

 

[N_Jay]

They have already hosed enough people, I don't want to add to their "Filthy Lucre" :wink:

LOL< do you have a problem with companies deriving profits from their intellectual property? :roll:

Maybe you should build your own scanner?
Only about 1/4 or less of the cost is parts! :wink:

 

[n4voxgill]

building a provoice scanner would not be very difficult, staying out of federal court for violating their IPR would be impossible. You would announce it one day and a US Marshall would be at your door the next.

 

[N_Jay]

building a provoice scanner would not be very difficult, staying out of federal court for violating their IPR would be impossible. You would announce it one day and a US Marshall would be at your door the next.

Building it would be no problem.

SELLING it would be a problem.

So just go build one for your own persoan use.