EFJ5100 Keyloading/Programming

[kitsapkilldeer]

Hi guys! This is my first message on this forum.

tl;dr I don't know how to program these radios and I don't know how to know how to program these radios, but would like to! Also, it seems I don't know what I don't know and request further guidance.

I have a lot of EFJ5100 radios with different keys and different programming. When I try to reprogram them using my settings on the correct software PCConfigure v.2.18.6 on these v.6.18.0 radios, it comes up with an error, being the first attachment to this thread; error1.png. This prevents me from cloning my radios. I think the problem is that each of these radios have different keys from different system admins, considering they all have different programming that is difficult to change. Is this my problem? If not, how do I start from a blank slate? If so, do I need to erase these keys? And if so, do I use KFDTool to do that or is there a better way? Do I need to (create, and then) load the key onto all of them before I start writing my settings into these radios?
I have KFDTool/KFDShield and all of the hardware that goes with that, and I'm in the process of erasing the keys on this practice radio. But I want to know if this is the right course of action and gain further knowledge.

I've read through every single forum post about my problem on this website that ever mentions EFJ5100s in the past, and I haven't found a solution yet. Yes, I understand, that this could brick my radio, but I have a lot of these and I consider this to be my sacrificial radio (which doesn't necessarily need to be sacrificed) to learn about P25 trunked systems and digital public service radios. I've read tons of threads on radioreference and I don't need certain individuals to bump my thread with responses like "this could brick your radio. just don't even try." I've also read the PCConfig manual, the EFJ5100 manual, and researched P25 trunked systems across a few wikis.

Further questions: are there any guides for programming these radios out there that you may have bookmarked? Any Washington-based elmers with knowledge of P25 radios that would accept money in exchange for their mentoring services?

 

[kd4efm]

kdftool is encryption and nothing to do with system keys.

Second, you can blank the radio, and start from scratch with basic P25 channels.
If you are trying to preserve any trunked information in it, end of the road, unless you have a system key for it.

2.18.6 is the last version of PCC.
Best i can answer back to you on this.

 

[kitsapkilldeer]

Thanks so much for that--that's super amazing information and it made my day! I'll look into blanking the radio, that's exactly what I want to do and just use basic P25 channels. I don't need to preserve any trunked information on it a) because I don't want to b) because I can't, as you said.

If it's not too beneath you could you quickly tell me, and for posterity for anyone else with a bunch of radios with different keys and programming, how to blank them? I'm sure it's something obvious I've done before and didn't understand that I did it.

 

[kd4efm]

So what band is the radio?







That's a basic " new " codeplug if I wanted to blank a radio.

 

[kitsapkilldeer]

They're all UHF R1 (380-470).
Someone told me I need to use PCIssue to remove the keys--will this allow me to then write the template that you gave me for the basic codeplug without giving me that error?
Thanks again, you're a lifesaver. I'll update this thread with more info when I attempt this again tomorrow morning PST.

 

[UAT_978]

PCConfigure is VERY dependant on the firmware in each radio and there used to be a FW version to PCC version matrix. If your radios are mixed fleet, you may need multiple versions to program them all.

As a rule 2.18.x is for the ES series, but will not work on the X series which typically needs 2.10.2 (again, VERY dependant on radio FW versions.)

2.18.6 is the last version of PCC.
Best i can answer back to you on this.

The final version of PCC was 2.18.14

 

[kd4efm]

PCConfigure is VERY dependent on the firmware in each radio and there used to be a FW version to PCC version matrix. If your radios are mixed fleet, you may need multiple versions to program them all.

 

[UAT_978]

You are giving me PTSD lol.

Back at EFJ, I once had to program a set of version 1 EARLY X series radios for a customer (with AES no less) and had to go into the wayback machine for version 1.x.x

Irving was like "you have WHAT FIRMWARE?" lol

 

[Project25_MASTR]

You are giving me PTSD lol.

Back at EFJ, I once had to program a set of version 1 EARLY X series radios for a customer (with AES no less) and had to go into the wayback machine for version 1.x.x

Irving was like "you have WHAT FIRMWARE?" lol

Would you be surprised if I told you the 5100's just came out of P&Q within the last month? They cleared out a good chunk of the VP600's as well.

 

[UAT_978]

No, when I left they had tons of X and ES radios laying around. Occasionally they will clear out the warehouse to make room for the new stuff.

 

[kitsapkilldeer]

If your radios are mixed fleet, you may need multiple versions to program them all.

They're all 5100ES's with limited keypads.

View attachment 129244

So all of the radios at 6.18.0, meaning I need PC Configure 2.18.14. I've been using 2.18.6 so that's the first thing I can fix that might solve an error message or two. It's been working so far for basic read and right but I'm sure it's not ideal. I can't find the download for this version of PCConfigure, though. My main source for the download and other software has been this wiki: https://wiki.w9cr.net/index.php/EF_Johnson

 

[kitsapkilldeer]

So I tried cloning a radio with a blank/new code plug and I'm running into some problems. I enabled Data Registration like it says to do for the wireless cloning procedure on page 2 of the Per System page under 'Data Settings', and yet when I go into the menu of the master radio and select 'CLONING W', it says DISABLED. I'm trying to figure out what it could be, but I'm running into a road block. I'm not sure what other setting I need to turn on. I followed the procedure in the manual, which said to do it over a conventional simplex channel which I set up on both radios on the same frequency.

Also another question that might seem dumb: do all of these innately have system keys? I understand I must possess the key in order to change trunking information, but if I don't have any keys, is there any way that I can remove the keys if I ever wanted to make my own (is that possible?)? It seems like it would be majorly beneficial to me to be able to create a system key for all of these radios to avoid snags with conflicting keys in the future.

 

[kd4efm]

you dont need a system key for conventional use.

 

[kitsapkilldeer]

you dont need a system key for conventional use.

Okay that's good information to know. I'm still wondering if anyone knows more about the cloning procedure. It seems like when I research the part number for the cloning cable, it doesn't exist anymore which forces me to do wireless programming which runs me into my same roadblock where it says DISABLED when I select 'CLONING W' again. Is the only other way to go about cloning to manually enter all the information again? Why does it give me the aforementioned error in the original post when I apply one file's codeplug to another radio? Seems like it would be easy to clone radios by saving a standard settings file and then uploading it to another radio.

 

[kitsapkilldeer]

Just as an update to my thread: I figured out that in order to clone the radios, and when referencing the manual about the cloning procedure, make sure that both the Conventional System Specific section of the Zones and Channels page on PCConfigure is set to Analog on the zone you plan to do OTAP on, and make sure Conventional is checked on PCIssue and you write and commit all of these options to the radio.

Now correct me if I'm wrong: There are 2 ways to wirelessly clone. By zone and by Unit ID. I haven't gotten the zone to work yet, so if anyone wants to pitch in how to do that in more detail than the manual, that would be fantastic!
In order to select which radio you wish to clone to, you need a Unit ID to enter. In order to program a Unit ID, and on page 13-3 of the manual, you need a (master) System Key, to create slave keys, so that you can program the Unit IDs.

EFJ system key generators have indeed been leaked, but I haven't exactly tracked one down yet and I don't know if it's against the rules to distribute it or information about it on this forum so that's all I can say about it.

 

[kd4efm]

In order to select which radio you wish to clone to, you need a Unit ID to enter. In order to program a Unit ID, and on page 13-3 of the manual, you need a (master) System Key, to create slave keys, so that you can program the Unit IDs.

That is referring to trunking. Conventional does not require a system key to assign a UID.

 

[kitsapkilldeer]

That is referring to trunking. Conventional does not require a system key to assign a UID.

Right--thank you for the correction, kd4efm.

I've been able to successfully create an eplug, like you suggested, and all my radios are digital p25 now, which is great, but I'm now trying to use KFDshield/tool to create keys for these radios. I bought a Motorola Keyload adapter and I have soldered the necessary two connections in order to begin programming my EFJ5100ES as per the instructions of this thread: EFJ-5100ES Keyloading w/KFDtool
I've included a photograph of the solder point I've made here. I installed the firmware onto the Arduino and plugged in all the cables, and then subsequently plugged in the radio, and turned it on and selected the correct COM port. The problem is that when I select Detect MR, it gives me an error message which I also included. You can see that the Read Info button works because it displays the information at the bottom.

Not sure what to do since not being able to Detect MR prevents me from being able to generate or load keys. I suspect this is something wrong with my PCIssue settings. Can anyone confirm?

Also just want to say that I'm super grateful all of you guys have been walking me, a greenhorn ham, through all of this complicated stuff. There's no other great way to learn it than just sitting down and doing the research and asking questions from senior guys like you!

 

[UglyViking]

@kitsapkilldeer I'm using a KFDShield, and it sounds like you are as well, in which case you can't use the KFDTool software as stated in the documentation from Omaha comms (assuming you bought and didn't DIY a board).

The software is available from their Github repo here. Download "Release V1.5.5" From the released sidebar (see first attached screenshot), then download the SW.V1.5.4.zip (screen two) and fw/ino/kfd-avr from the main (you can download via the code dropdown, see first screen).

That should allow you to generate and upload keys via the KFDShield.

As a question for others following this thread (and sorry about the thread hijacking but it seems to overlap), does anyone have documentation about the options for PCIssue? I'm curious to what some of the options do (eg. Emergency Disable, Custom Icons, etc.) and also if there is any reason to be concerned about selecting all the options?

Generally speaking, more options means more potential conflicts, issues, and attack vectors. I'm wondering if I should disable functions I'm not using on the radio (keypad support/programming) to reduce potential issues.

 

[kitsapkilldeer]

All thread hijacking is welcome here. Good center basis for knowledge. I think more keywords increases SEO anyways and so more people might be able to find the thread and find the solution to their problems I hope.

Thank you @UglyViking for the help. I followed your instructions and I'm encountering the same issue. You are correct, I am indeed using a board from their website that I bought and loaded with the firmware from their fork on the Github. Again, it is able to read my radio, but alas, even after your instructions, I have not been able to use OmahaComms' KFDTool fork. When I sequentially plug in the arduino, then the arduino to the radio with the correctly soldered adapter, I still achieve the same result when I attempt to Detect MR. When I go to Keyload and generate and load, it gives me an error 'Error Parsing SLR'.

I don't know how to access the debugger to give you guys more information, either. I have emailed OmahaComms twice, but they haven't responded. I've done a lot of experimenting at this point and I'm very dumbfounded as to why I haven't been able to make this last bridge to my comms setup.

Again, you guys rock! Thanks for all the info so far and so forth.

Also, in my amateur novice opinion, I would definitely only enable the options you need on PCIssue to prevent overlap and I think you have a good instinct to indeed reduce redundancies to prevent conflict and strange things happening.

 

[PPDE_607]

Edit: I saw uglyviking's post and this is the same info they provided as well

So I don't know if this will fix your particular problem but here it goes.

Hardware:
kfdshield on arduino uno
ocs trs cable
moto ntn8613c with pins bridged

I was having weird inconsistent (timeout, opcode, invalid response time) errors when clicking on anything that would need to read info from radio. I was able to brute force through the errors and load keys but it was kind of a headache and obviously not how it should work. After doing some research it seems that there is some sort of timing issue when it comes to using that hardware with the efj5100. So I reached out to anarcobacon and comms and logistics on instagram.

SO ALL CREDIT TO THEM! I'm just passing the info along

You'll need to go to the omaha comms kfd github, on that page you should see a green button labeled code, click on that and in the drop down click download as zip, extract and open the files and find the fw folder and upload that firmware through your arduino ide. Basically follow the normal directions from there, I only used the fw from the download from zip folder, I'm using the software from the release page download. This fixed all my keyloading error problems, I wish you the best of luck and hope it solves your problem!