Encryption on SAFE-T?

[jerk]

And it STILL isn't encrypted. North, South or Central zones. I'm listening to Central Zone right now, nice and clear, as it is every day. And for those claiming the South Zone is encrypted, wrong again, coming back from TN Saturday evening I listened to the South Zone DES all the way from the KY border to just South of Indy, then I switched over to Central Zone, they were working another project..... It's really hard encrypt traffic when only one or two units actually have the capability, two cars in the Central Zone have it and they are on the ERT not DES.

Keep broadcasting that they are not using it... and very soon they will be...
They are using that channel for a reason, the more you make things public, the more chances they will add/use encryption.

 

[Viper43]

lol, wrong..... it takes money, and thats one thing they DON'T have. Besides, it's all over the net, one thread here isn't a threat...

 

[jerk]

lol, wrong..... it takes money, and thats one thing they DON'T have. Besides, it's all over the net, one thread here isn't a threat...

Trust me they have the money, Safe-T is a reality now, almost every State agency is on it. But they didn't have the money, yet turns out hey found it (made it happen), and made it happen for the State agencies. Same thing, Encryption can and will happen.

I can always find out after the fact, but I would rather hear it real time. It's not all over the Net, but your cavalier attitude is and that will get back to the powers that be. And the fact you brag "only two units" have encryption. First I'm sure you don't know who has what on a statewide basis. And second, the tendency would be not to tell you. There are radios out there with encryption option, even if they are not currently being used. One of the local city police departments is getting Safe-T radio with encryption, and they want to use it full-time. And yes they have seized drug money to buy the radios. They only need 13-14 radios.

Take ten minutes and read some of the other encryption threads going on in other States.
It's the wave of the future, and politicians can be persuaded very easily towards full-time encryption. And don't think there is not somebody out there reading this stuff and printing it off to show to higher ups. It is not a hard sell, three Podunk county sheriff's around me use simple inversion.

The best thing in my opinion is to not talk about it and listen, the less said the better off I think the scanner hobby will be. Indiana forum does not take the approach of other States forums, which limit the publication of sensitive talkgroups. Here if a super-secret sensitive ID being used in the clear was found tomorrow, it would be posted immediately in the database.

 

[DiGiTaLD]

Thought this one died!

Wow, I thought this thread rolled over and died. Viper, you are still wrong, and you are making yourself look really stupid by continuing to argue with the math and the Unitrunker log files that provide irrefutable proof of encryption in use. I have actually heard encryption being discussed on the air in-the-clear (have an audio file of it, but its too big to upload here) followed by a user transmitting using encryption, which was completely scrambled P25 digital voice - which I caught by holding the 2096 on the talkgroup, which causes it to ignore the +8 encryption status bit. I also managed to catch screen shots of it in use with the latest version of Unitrunker, which differentiates between in-the-clear P25 and encryption in the CT column.

They don't use it all the time, and probably not all of their radios are equipped, but it is out there and is being used. Time and time again people have provided evidence of it, but for whatever reason you continue to be ignorant of the facts. Please explain this, if you could:

Here's a few seconds of Unitrunker logs that prove encryption is in use on SAFE-T. First, the math to explain it.

As documented in the wiki and elsewhere, encryption adds a +8 status bit to a Motorola talkgroup. This means that in decimal format, the talkgroup in question here, which would be as 4544 without encryption, becomes 4552 with encryption (the original ID with the +8 status bit). The hex conversion is important, because Unitrunker logs everything in hex format. 4544 in hex format is 11C0 and 4552 is 11C8. Thus, Unitrunker logs would show 11C8 for a channel grant for this talkgroup with encryption in use (remember, the status bit).

2008-01-29 15:08:34 43 of 43 (100%)
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
399C G 320
63D4 I 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<15>, Alt DChan=3D4 867.9000, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
219C G 320
63EB G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<09>, uses DChan=3EB 868.4750, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
9D19 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 9D19 waved off because of Radio ID
9D19 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 9D19 waved off because of Radio ID
FFFF G 36E Site 15
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
9D19 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 9D19 waved off because of Radio ID
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
9D19 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 9D19 waved off because of Radio ID
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
B860 G 321
11C8 G 3C3 Channel Grant Astro 3C3 I B860 -> G 11C8
2008-01-29 15:08:35 43 of 43 (100%)
B860 G 321
11C8 G 3C3 Channel Grant Astro 3C3 I B860 -> G 11C8
B860 G 321
11C8 G 3C3 Channel Grant Astro 3C3 I B860 -> G 11C8
B860 G 321
11C8 G 3C3 Channel Grant Astro 3C3 I B860 -> G 11C8
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
11C8 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C8
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
11C8 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C8
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
11C8 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C8
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
499C G 320
63BE G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<19>, uses DChan=3BE 868.9750, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
11C8 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C8
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
2D9C G 320
6171 G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<12>, uses DChan=171 860.2375, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
11C8 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C8
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
019C G 320
62A2 G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<01>, uses DChan=2A2 867.8625, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
11C8 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C8
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
719C G 320
62CB G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<29>, uses DChan=2CB 868.8875, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
2008-01-29 15:08:36 43 of 43 (100%)

 

[scannerfreak]

lol, wrong..... it takes money, and thats one thing they DON'T have..

Really? Dave Smith has a different outlook on the matter. Might wanna check it out..

By they way, once all the system is up and all have radios, there will still be grants; and all that's left to use it on at that point will be to make the system more secure...

 

[Viper43]

Yeah REALLY, thats a 2005 article, long before the issues that ISP is facing now, including GRANTS that are no longer available due to federal cutbacks, maybe you should try updated info, like one conversation I had just a week ago with an actual user (a trooper) who said "that for the foreseeable future no one will be getting encryption at any ISP district due to cutbacks" and he added "heck, were having trouble getting anything fixed" and some are driving older worn out cars because of the cutbacks, partly due to increased fuel costs. IE: a lot has changed in 3 years since that article was written, you with your alledged contacts should know that, and I'm surprised you are relying on 3 year old information for your source.......

 

[DiGiTaLD]

Viper, I'm still asking you to explain the excerpts from my Unitrunker log files, which you seem to be avoiding. There is irrefutable mathematically sound evidence showing encryption in use on this talkgroup - what is so hard for you to understand about that?

This talkgroup is not encrypted by default. Encryption is enabled and disabled at the option of the users who have it installed in their radios. Probably the reason they use it in-the-clear is because everybody might not have encryption capability yet - but some undoubtedly do have it.

Here is an example of a Unitrunker log file showing traffic being passed in-the-clear:

2008-03-31 22:30:48 43 of 43 (100%)
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
1F40 G 2E3 Continuation 2E3 G 1F40
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
2D9C G 320
6171 G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<12>, uses DChan=171 860.2375, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
CCD2 G 321
11C0 G 3C3 Channel Grant Astro 3C3 I CCD2 -> G 11C0
CCD2 G 321
11C0 G 3C3 Channel Grant Astro 3C3 I CCD2 -> G 11C0
CCD2 G 321
11C0 G 3C3 Channel Grant Astro 3C3 I CCD2 -> G 11C0
CCD2 G 321
11C0 G 3C3 Channel Grant Astro 3C3 I CCD2 -> G 11C0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
11C0 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C0
3040 G 3BF Network Status
11C0 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C0
1F40 G 2E3 Continuation 2E3 G 1F40
11C0 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C0
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
719C G 320
62CB G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<29>, uses DChan=2CB 868.8875, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
2008-03-31 22:30:49 43 of 43 (100%)

Compare this to my earlier one, from 1-29-08, showing encryption in use:

2008-01-29 15:08:34 43 of 43 (100%)
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
399C G 320
63D4 I 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<15>, Alt DChan=3D4 867.9000, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
219C G 320
63EB G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<09>, uses DChan=3EB 868.4750, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
9D19 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 9D19 waved off because of Radio ID
9D19 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 9D19 waved off because of Radio ID
FFFF G 36E Site 15
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
9D19 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 9D19 waved off because of Radio ID
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
9D19 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 9D19 waved off because of Radio ID
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
B860 G 321
11C8 G 3C3 Channel Grant Astro 3C3 I B860 -> G 11C8
2008-01-29 15:08:35 43 of 43 (100%)
B860 G 321
11C8 G 3C3 Channel Grant Astro 3C3 I B860 -> G 11C8
B860 G 321
11C8 G 3C3 Channel Grant Astro 3C3 I B860 -> G 11C8
B860 G 321
11C8 G 3C3 Channel Grant Astro 3C3 I B860 -> G 11C8
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
11C8 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C8
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
11C8 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C8
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
11C8 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C8
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
499C G 320
63BE G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<19>, uses DChan=3BE 868.9750, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
11C8 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C8
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
2D9C G 320
6171 G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<12>, uses DChan=171 860.2375, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
11C8 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C8
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
019C G 320
62A2 G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<01>, uses DChan=2A2 867.8625, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4900 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0900
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
11C8 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 11C8
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
719C G 320
62CB G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<29>, uses DChan=2CB 868.8875, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
2008-01-29 15:08:36 43 of 43 (100%)

What's the difference? In the first log excerpt posted above, the talkgroup appears in hex format as 11C0, which converts to the decimal format of 4544. In the second log excerpt posted above, the talkgroup appears as 11C8, which, if you do the math, is the base talkgroup ID with the +8 status bit, which converts in decimal format to 4552. Go ahead, try it! Windows calculator will do the conversion for you. This math is no secret and it isn't that hard to understand, which is why I don't understand why you feel the need to keep arguing.

It is well documented here in the wiki and many, many other places out there that a +8 status bit on a Motorola talkgroup means encryption is in use. There is no other way to explain away these logs; decimal talkgroup ID 4552 would not be assigned to a talkgroup on a Motorola system under any other circumstances.

 

[kb9sxk]

Yeah REALLY, thats a 2005 article, long before the issues that ISP is facing now, including GRANTS that are no longer available due to federal cutbacks, maybe you should try updated info, like one conversation I had just a week ago with an actual user (a trooper) who said "that for the foreseeable future no one will be getting encryption at any ISP district due to cutbacks" and he added "heck, were having trouble getting anything fixed" and some are driving older worn out cars because of the cutbacks, partly due to increased fuel costs. IE: a lot has changed in 3 years since that article was written, you with your alledged contacts should know that, and I'm surprised you are relying on 3 year old information for your source.......

Dude. I dont know where you get your (Lack) of information, but there is more $ for interoperable communications than ever before.

 

[drunyon]

ISP DES are using encryption, at times, and are also starting to issue EF Johnson radios.

 

[N9WP]

I have also noticed encryption on the ISP Drug Squad channel - Talkgroup 4544

 

[Viper43]

Dude. I dont know where you get your (Lack) of information, but there is more $ for interoperable communications than ever before.

Thats what one agency thought too, till they applied and found they were denied because the Feds cut the funds and sent the money elsewhere. Better check YOUR sources.

 

[kb9sxk]

Thats what one agency thought too, till they applied and found they were denied because the Feds cut the funds and sent the money elsewhere. Better check YOUR sources.

man, I am my source.

I have over 50 safe t radios on hand that were grant, and I am expecting more.

yes, HSGP $ is less this year, but Interop $ is up.