Eneloops & the 436HP

[SOFA_KING]

I'd be curious to see what you get with the Opus. Right now I'm trying to get my first set up to the heights of my second set. I did things a bit different between the two, and now I'm trying to remember what I did differently on the second set. There are two more sets to break in, so that formula for high capacity success needs to be understood. You only get one chance to "make a good first impression".

Yesterday I found a couple of choices on an 8 bay smart charger and a 16 bay smart charger. The 8 bay M2Power was better quality, ran on 10 to 18 VDC (supports solar charging), and is cheaper buying two of them than one of the 16 bay chargers, which had some quality issues. Still thinking about this...

Phil

 

[N5XTC]

I'd be curious to see what you get with the Opus. Right now I'm trying to get my first set up to the heights of my second set. I did things a bit different between the two, and now I'm trying to remember what I did differently on the second set. There are two more sets to break in, so that formula for high capacity success needs to be understood. You only get one chance to "make a good first impression".

Yesterday I found a couple of choices on an 8 bay smart charger and a 16 bay smart charger. The 8 bay M2Power was better quality, ran on 10 to 18 VDC (supports solar charging), and is cheaper buying two of them than one of the 16 bay chargers, which had some quality issues. Still thinking about this...

Phil

does the fan turn on on your opus? is it loud? i may order it tomorrow. any negatives thus far with the opus?

 

[SOFA_KING]

does the fan turn on on your opus? is it loud? i may order it tomorrow. any negatives thus far with the opus?

Sure it runs. Loud? No. It keeps everything cool, and that will extend the life of the components inside, as well as reduce heat on the cells. The cells never get hot, and actually have only felt lukewarm at the most. No negatives, and I'm being critical. If there was only one thing I'd like to see different, it would be the FULL alternating with the final mAh value at the end of the charge with enough viewing time to compare up to 4 cells. But the accuracy of the measurements is consistent and reliable. I really enjoy everything about this Opus.

To give an example...I have been experimenting with my first Odec set to see what charge rate yields the best capacity, now that they have already been broken in. Yesterday I tried 300 mA and watched the voltage and current at the point of full charge. The max voltage on this setting with these Odec 2450 batteries was only 1.48 volts. And the lower current probing near the end still indicated it was sensing the -Dv. However, the final capacity was just a bit lower than the 500 mA readings I got last time. I should have wrote them down! Then again, readings between cells are grouping closer, so maybe break-in was not 100% complete. But the way this Opus can chain all slots together, and allow you to focus on whatever parameters you want to see, makes these experiments easy to accomplish...and actually fun to do. I'm now near the end of charging the same set at 700 mAH, and although it is not quite complete, the numbers are already pretty high. I searched high and low for reliable (not alternative) facts on break-in methods, but got nothing but amateur bickering. What a waste of time! So I have my own lab experiments going with this reliable charger that provides solid data. Two more sets of Odec batteries are waiting for break-in, so I hope to rediscover what I did right on my record-breaking set 2. I believe I was aggressive at 700 mA on the first set, and gentle at 500 mA on the second set.

It just finished at 700 mA. The numbers are grouped better and showing a bit higher than 300 mA. The average at 300 was 2651 mAh, while the average at 700 was 2656. But the variance at 300 was 2625 to 2676, while the variance at 700 was 2649 to 2664. My next, and probably last test on this set will be another 500 mA charge. Which ever numbers look better, that will be my break-in rate. They are rested a bit now, so let's start the discharge cycle. I'll report back the numbers when the charge is finished.

Phil

 

[marksmith]

I started the 200mah trickle charge on all batteries. Over the past 3 years I have found that 500mah charges the batteries at a rate that is similar to the discharge rate when using a scanner, or at least the closest.

I have found that charging and discharging batteries at the same rate seems to extend their longevity, and give them the best charge. Charging them faster, and hotter, does not seem to improve performance, nor does slow charging them.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

 

[SOFA_KING]

I started the 200mah trickle charge on all batteries. Over the past 3 years I have found that 500mah charges the batteries at a rate that is similar to the discharge rate when using a scanner, or at least the closest.

I have found that charging and discharging batteries at the same rate seems to extend their longevity, and give them the best charge. Charging them faster, and hotter, does not seem to improve performance, nor does slow charging them.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

That makes sense, although I see about 180 mA to 220 mA current consumption on my 436. The cutoff (low voltage shutdown) is rather high, and that means the cells still have plenty of juice left in them and need to be drained before being charged again.

I started my discharge at 300 mA early this morning, and it finally finished about an hour ago. That took all day! But we are finally on the way back up at 500 mA to check the final results tomorrow morning. Now, if I find 500 is optimal, I'll have to find a large multi-bay smart charger that has a 500 mA charge rate to supplement my Opus. That is not as easy as it sounds. The M2cpower 8 bay smart charger I was leaning towards divides 2000 mA in four slots on the left, and another 2000 mA on the right. Fine, if you fill all slots, but too high if you use fewer slots...and way too hot on just one slot. I like it because it can use a solar panel to power it. I could probably make it work, as long as I always fill 3 to 4 slots per side. The Panasonic chargers (BQ-17 and BQ-55) are too soft at 300 mA, and a bit too hot at 750 mA. Too bad they didn't make a 500 mA model. But those only run on 120 VAC. I like chargers with 12 VDC and solar panel options.

Final numbers on set 1 tomorrow morning. I can't wait to see the results.

Phil

 

[SOFA_KING]

The final test run on set 1 charged at 500 mA is now complete. Took just over 5:48. The new numbers are in.

2748 mAh
2701 mAh
2669 mAh
2665 mAh

The average went up too. Here is a brief history:

2647 on 4 full cycle 700 mA break-in cycles.
2651 on 300 mA cycle (never reaching 1.5 V).
2656 on 700 mA cycle (reaching 1.51 V).
2696 on this last 500 mA cycle.

Set 2 was broken in with four full cycles at 500 mA, and reached into the 2800 range. It was a mistake to push the first set at 700 mA on the break-in, but I see with continued 500 mA cycles the numbers are improving and reaching towards the higher numbers set 2 achieved. That gives me hope the cells could be further improved by sticking with a 500 mA charge rate. 300 is too little, 700 too aggressive, and 500 just right. Good to know these things!

Time to break-in set 3 and set 4 of these great Odec 2450 batteries. Glad I found the optimal rate! Hopefully it will help someone who wants to know.

Phil

 

[N5XTC]

on the eneloop pros, here are my #s using 700ma charge, after discharge

2441mah
1.45v

2629
1.45

2579
1.45

all around 245 minutes.

 

[N5XTC]

do the volts matter? i get 1.45 on the maha while the bc700 was getting like 1.5 or 1.52

 

[SOFA_KING]

do the volts matter? i get 1.45 on the maha while the bc700 was getting like 1.5 or 1.52

Yes, voltage matters. My old Maha never had good voltages either. Maybe that is why my cells had wide variations and died in short order. I am super happy with the Opus BT-C3400. Great high numbers, and the Odec cells are getting better and better the more I use them. I'm also resurrecting cells the Maha left for dead years ago. I have a pile just waiting to go through the charger. Need more Opus chargers!

For me, the Opus wins.

Phil

 

[N5XTC]

Yes, voltage matters. My old Maha never had good voltages either. Maybe that is why my cells had wide variations and died in short order. I am super happy with the Opus BT-C3400. Great high numbers, and the Odec cells are getting better and better the more I use them. I'm also resurrecting cells the Maha left for dead years ago. I have a pile just waiting to go through the charger. Need more Opus chargers!

For me, the Opus wins.

Phil

just printed my label to return the maha. ordered the opus 3400 on your review. lol. it will be here friday. i have amazon prime but it would not be here til monday, so i paid $6 to get it by friday. only $. i think i will like the charger. now we can compare using my batteries and my numbers also.

 

[N5XTC]

this guy says NOT to plug in the opus when it has batteries in it, he fried his this way. i dont think it is what actually fried his charger, however. but, something to think about. he recommends having the opus plugged in 1st then installing the batteries. just thought i would share this in case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TD003-FqoM

 

[SOFA_KING]

I saw that. I never do things like that, anyway, but accidents happen.

Well I hope you like the Opus. I could use 5 more. Can't afford that many. Just stick to the 500 mA default and you'll be good. Did you do a few full cycle break-in charges yet? If so, what rate did you use? I really can't believe some people here recommended a 0.5C charge rate. That would toast the cells and shorten the life, as well as lessen their longevity.

Today I measured current consumption on all these portable scanners. Trying to figure out which batteries will work best on each scanner with what I have available...and how many spare sets I'll need for each. The Home Patrol is a current hog at over 280 mA with the display lit up (180 dim). Plus it has a high voltage cutoff point that never fully drains the batteries. I never get good run time, even with top quality cells. I don't use this scanner for anything but searching new frequencies for P25 NAC recording. I so wish they did better on the battery life.

Time for bed. I just started another charge cycle on my primary 436 batteries. Gotta keep those ready to run at all times. Then we start break-in on Odec set 3 and 4. That will take days...maybe a week. Need more chargers!

Phil

 

[N5XTC]

the opus arrives friday and will be very interesting to see how it does. i wil still have the maha until satuday, just in case. i am sure i will like the opus, but not sending it back til saturday, just in case. there is no way to make the display light stay on? guess u really dont need it on all the time. i like that one button push and u see the values on all slots, not have to rotate or push to change slots to read. i like that i also get the car charger for the same $ that i spent for the maha without one. the one worry is the fan. i read that it goes out from time to time and needs changed. should i keep running my new eneloops (been charged prob 5 times by now) on charge, or put them through a cycle?

 

[SOFA_KING]

the opus arrives friday and will be very interesting to see how it does. i wil still have the maha until satuday, just in case. i am sure i will like the opus, but not sending it back til saturday, just in case. there is no way to make the display light stay on? guess u really dont need it on all the time. i like that one button push and u see the values on all slots, not have to rotate or push to change slots to read. i like that i also get the car charger for the same $ that i spent for the maha without one. the one worry is the fan. i read that it goes out from time to time and needs changed. should i keep running my new eneloops (been charged prob 5 times by now) on charge, or put them through a cycle?

Sounds good, Scott. You CAN toggle the display light to stay on by holding down the display button for 5 seconds or so. You can return the display light to normal (auto off) by doing the same procedure.

About the fan...It is whisper quite with no whining sound. I actually stand my charger up vertically, and that puts less bearing load on the little fan. Makes it even quieter and vents heat better. I watched a YT video on replacing the fan. Very simple. Take the bottom cover off, unplug the old fan, slide it out of the slot, slide the new fan in, plug it in and put the bottom cover back on. The advantages of removing heat from everything far outweigh the minor inconvenience of an occasional fan swap. I need to find a good source and stock up a few. The guy who did the video said they were easy to get and cheap.

The Duricell 2400's have all been charged and all read in the 2500's. Set 3 of the Odec 2450 batteries are on the initial "CHARGE TEST" break-in run. This mode first tops off new batteries, drains them down to 0.9 V, and charges them back up measuring the capacity. It gives a quick overview of the initial state of new cells. It's also good for a quick refresher. But then I use the full-blown "DISCHARGE REFRESH" mode to do the full break-in. When that is done I read all the mAh capacity values, then do a quick "QUICK TEST" mode to measure internal cell resistance. This has been showing lower and lower numbers after every cycle...like 45 to 56. Even the cells the Maha damaged to high resistance have been reversing to lower resistance. In time I'll see how much repair I can do on those cells, but time has been an issue. That Opus has been working non-stop ever since I got it. Poor thing!

Let me know how you make out. The absolute best thing you can do to your cells is fully drain them before you charge them. And unfortunately the Uniden scanners never drain them nearly enough. The cells will discharge for quite a while in the Opus before they are empty enough...sometimes for over an hour or more. But I find that is healthy for the cells and provides maximum longevity.

Phil

 

[N5XTC]

Let me know how you make out. The absolute best thing you can do to your cells is fully drain them before you charge them. And unfortunately the Uniden scanners never drain them nearly enough. The cells will discharge for quite a while in the Opus before they are empty enough...sometimes for over an hour or more. But I find that is healthy for the cells and provides maximum longevity.

Phil

yes, i fully drain the batteries each time, then recharge. there is a sep function for each on the opus? so, 1st i hit drain (whatever it is called), then i have to run the recharge? i will use 500ma. i boxed up the maha and only need drop it off at at UPS location. but, want to wait and be sure about the opus 1st. i am sure i will like it. it will be here tom and i have some batteries ready for it. be interesting to post the #s after we know what my maha did over and over.

 

[SOFA_KING]

yes, i fully drain the batteries each time, then recharge. there is a sep function for each on the opus? so, 1st i hit drain (whatever it is called), then i have to run the recharge? i will use 500ma. i boxed up the maha and only need drop it off at at UPS location. but, want to wait and be sure about the opus 1st. i am sure i will like it. it will be here tom and i have some batteries ready for it. be interesting to post the #s after we know what my maha did over and over.

I would also keep the Maha around long enough to make sure your Opus works. With the extremely limited time you have left, be very careful to use a well known set, fully drain them on the Opus at 500 mA, and fully charge them at 500. You might have to do that a couple of times if the Maha never did a "reliable" full break-in. Maybe even three times to really see the numbers improve. I bet they will, and you might even see improvement on the first full cycle. But if they never had proper full end-to-end conditioning from the start, due to low voltage and premature discharge cutoff, it may take time to reach maximum potential. That is why I am being extremely careful to follow the 500 formula on my last two sets of Odec 2450's. I want full capacity in the 2800's!

About the discharge and recharge transition...I had interpreted the operation in the review incorrectly. I confused it with the CHARGE TEST mode, which fully charges, fully discharges, then fully charges the cells again. I am going to suggest to Opus that they add a DISCHARGE RECHARGE mode. And I would love to see them make a 16 bay, 500 mA per independent slot, portable charger that runs on 10 - 18 VDC with an LCD readout under each slot showing a voltage reading when they are discharging, and a mAh reading when they are done charging. Also a "jump start" feature for cells that sat around a bit too long and need a "wake up call"...all in the smallest package possible. That would be the perfect multi-cell charger.

Let us know how you do.

Phil

 

[N5XTC]

Also a "jump start" feature for cells that sat around a bit too long and need a "wake up call"...all in the smallest package possible. That would be the perfect multi-cell charger.

Let us know how you do.

Phil

i never used a break in cycle for my eneloops. just pulled them from box and charged. did not even drain them 1st. ooops. lol. now i drain them then charge. think i messed them up and need recondition them?

 

[SOFA_KING]

I wasn't convinced a proper multi-run break-in was worth it when I used the Maha, but now I actually see the improvement it makes with the Opus. The Maha didn't work right, but the Opus does. As documented, each cycle shows higher numbers. I attribute this to high capacity batteries wanting to run under a heavier load than what most scanners pull. Those stressful Opus full break-in cycles define the full performance of the cells. And I also believe the Maha never pushed them end to end all the way, and that is why I never saw an improvement with that charger.

So, I would take the cells you already recorded values with on the Maha, and see if you get better numbers on the Opus doing the steps I outlined above. And after that, if you have a new unused identical set, do the full Monty break-in by starting with a CHARGE TEST, then immediately follow that with a DISCHARGE REFRESH...all at 500 mA. Then look at capacity numbers. I bet you see 100 to 200 mAh improvement with the same type of Enloop Pro batteries.

Then you can $#!+CAN that Maha POS! (Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

Phil

 

[N5XTC]

Then you can $#!+CAN that Maha POS! (Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

Phil

lol. when you put the battery in the opus, do you pull the holder down with your finer, OR use the battery and pull it down that way. what about getting battery out? pull down with battery or use your fingers? looks like that thing can be tough. lol. jerks sent it UPS so prob wont get it til late tomorrow. ups is slower than whale ***** here.

 

[N5XTC]

Then you can $#!+CAN that Maha POS! (Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

Phil

have you used the battery test feature? watching a youtube video in which the guy is using it. if so, what #s are you seeing? what are good and bad ranges? mine arrives today, BUT they sent UPS so i wont get it til this evening. i have some batteries ready to go!

here is the video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYDXMvTK34U&t=0s