FCC Enforcement, tasty, tasty enforcement….

[n6hgg]

What I like is the guy got dinged for screwing up in the amateur bands.

 

[WB5UOM]

I hate to go into the whole whacker thing here, but yeah...
How many of those "first responders" were actually connected to a legit city/county/state associated public safety agency?
I've had a few guys claim "First Responder" status and when you start asking questions, it usually comes down to the "We work with the police", "We help the police", etc.
Like you, the "Get it in writing from the Chief" nips it in the bud. Never once in 25 years has the chief ever approved one of these whackers on the system.

Well- lets see yes actually with various agencies-- like a deputy Constable- volunteer fireman
and really I think some of it at least is they just dont understand it isnt conventional vhf....

 

[WB5UOM]

And to think that Genesis was born here in Tyler Texas by Mr. Phil Burks

 

[MILCOMM]

I hate to go into the whole whacker thing here, but yeah...
How many of those "first responders" were actually connected to a legit city/county/state associated public safety agency?
I've had a few guys claim "First Responder" status and when you start asking questions, it usually comes down to the "We work with the policte", "We help the police", etc.
Like you, the "Get it in writing from the Chief" nips it in the bud. Never once in 25 years has the chief ever approved one of these whackers on the system.

Unfortunately, there are to many people who work for companies that program public service
radios that will program "eBay" radios for people on the side. We all know that happens but
I have never heard of anyone getting in trouble over it.

 

[mmckenna]

Unfortunately, there are to many people who work for companies that program public service
radios that will program "eBay" radios for people on the side. We all know that happens but
I have never heard of anyone getting in trouble over it.

Had that issue on my old Motorola system.
Switched to Kenwood and I never let the system keys out of my sight. System is locked down where the ESN must match radio ID.

Some of these older trunked systems have more holes than a piece of Swiss cheese someone has been shooting at.

 

[MTS2000des]

That's my point. If messed up, then you're illegal. It just takes one click of the mouse to have a bad day.

Which a click of a mouse wrong in Sentinel won't get you a knock at your door because you can't hear the po-po on your SDS.
This isn't the case with CPS/RPM/whatever subscriber radio. If it has a TRANSMITTER, than it's no different than a loaded gun.
Carry wisely.

 

[MTS2000des]

Switched to Kenwood and I never let the system keys out of my sight. System is locked down where the ESN must match radio ID.

LLA is fully supported in both Astro 25 and other vendors like EFJ Kenwood/ATLAS, and Harris VIDA.
The problem is it's "all or nothing" and becomes a challenge when you have 17 disparate systems separately managed and have to do cross programming like I have to deal with in my area.
I am sure clowns like this will be material for CTDRS implementing LLA if they aren't planning on it already.

 

[APX8000]

Lets throw this in for discussion....how about Big M just throws in parameters to NAS. Simply select RX only and greys out other fields like BK Radio does. I'm sure it would cut down on the number of illegal subscribers on a system.

While I have TX capability on some systems/talkgroups, others are Listen only with TG/AG Disabled for situational awareness...and we would come up on an IOP talkgroup to TX if needed. Legally, we are still affiliating and using up a resource and I understand if there is no subscriber affiliating to a site then you get nothing. So in this case I can see the reasoning for public safety agencies....
but for all the whackers ?

 

[KevinC]

Lets throw this in for discussion....how about Big M just throws in parameters to NAS. Simply select RX only and greys out other fields like BK Radio does. I'm sure it would cut down on the number of illegal subscribers on a system.

While I have TX capability on some systems/talkgroups, others are Listen only with TG/AG Disabled for situational awareness...and we would come up on an IOP talkgroup to TX if needed. Legally, we are still affiliating and using up a resource and I understand if there is no subscriber affiliating to a site then you get nothing. So in this case I can see the reasoning for public safety agencies....
but for all the whackers ?

That would take all the fun out of making someone’s display keep blanking out for no reason and stop receiving.

 

[mmckenna]

Lets throw this in for discussion....how about Big M just throws in parameters to NAS. Simply select RX only and greys out other fields like BK Radio does. I'm sure it would cut down on the number of illegal subscribers on a system.

While some manufacturers do make radios that will track talkgroups without affiliating, I don't think Motorola sees any value in that. No legit user needs it. Likely, if they did add it, they'd find a way to charge for it.
Plus, since it wouldn't affiliate, it would be potentially useless on a large multisite system. Since Motorola likes to sell large multisite systems, there is even less value in a feature like this. Someone would buy it, then get pissed off that they can't listen to traffic from 8 counties over...
Might soon become a moot point, as it is instances like this that lead to encryption.

For decades now those in the know have been saying "Just buy a scanner". That removes the chances of the FCC showing up at the door.

"F*** around and find out" is the title of a similar thread on another website. Seems to be a very accurate description of what happened here.
There are some skills required, and apparently some don't have them. There needs to be enough understanding that if someone doesn't know how to do this right, they need to stop. Unfortunately there are those that won't admit they don't know something. In this case, they "found out". Someone would have to be pretty dense to not notice the radio affiliating. I know my computer speakers pop when my radio affiliates on my system.

Affiliating a radio takes resources away from the system. Those resources may be severely in demand. It's really shortsighted to do that, and shows either a lack of knowledge or a lack of concern. I'm really glad to see that the administrators of the system brought the FCC in on this. They certainly could have just bricked the radio and gone on with their day, but they apparently felt that taking the time to involve the FCC was necessary. Maybe this has been a big issue, maybe our friend was doing something else other than just letting the radio affiliate. Likely we'll never hear the entire story. Either way, this radio didn't accidentally affiliate once or twice. For them to DF him, he must have left it running for a long time, or there was some other clue that lead them to his door.

But lesson here is, Don't let your radio affiliate. Don't clone radio ID's. Don't take resources away from a public safety radio system. And if you don't understand that, or cannot make the radio work that way, STOP.

Ya' know, I'm the type of guy that usually likes to cut people some slack, especially when they are temporarily ignorant on something. It's usually an opportunity for a good learning experience. But there's apparently something else going on here.

 

[Outerdog]

No legit user needs it.

That's a huge generalization. BK and Harris are no small potatoes and put it in. Why? Certainly not for whackers or hamtards. I gotta believe it's because "legit" users asked for it. I can see FG and MA as two perfect opportunities for this. I've personally seen it deployed once myself.

Like any other tool, radio or otherwise, Rx Only Trunking has a use-case and must be properly managed and deployed with training. Not every user gets Rx Only Trunking in much the same way not every user gets a system key and a copy of CPS.

 

[mmckenna]

That's a huge generalization. BK and Harris are no small potatoes and put it in. Why? Certainly not for whackers or hamtards. I gotta believe it's because "legit" users asked for it. I can see FG and MA as two perfect opportunities for this. I've personally seen it deployed once myself.

Absolutely.

However, in an ideal world, if an agency needed access, even RX only, on someone else's radio system, they aught to be professional enough to have the radio properly set up by that systems administrator.

 

[MTS2000des]

So, Mr. Dean loves to espouse about his allegedly (per CTDTRS) unauthorized radios. He loves to brag about how he "hands out" radios. He also articulates how he knows that improperly programmed trunking subscribers can present a hazard. His own words and admissions on video convict him and leave NO REASONABLE DOUBT he knows what he did is illegal, unauthorized and dangerous. Don't worry Mr. Dean, offline copies of the video are downloaded. He will be very lucky and privileged if the county or state doesn't sausage him. They should. I would. I would CLEAR MY PLATE if this happened on my system. It would be my new mission in life. Stupid games=stupid prizes. More ARES whackerism on display. Can someone please tell these people that they are NOT AUTHORIZED and sorry, there are no part 97 privileges on 700/800MHz, no "special authorization" to clone IDs and use government radio systems because you "help out". It doesn't work that way.

The "admissions" begin at 1:21:30.

 

[WB5UOM]

Boy that was hard to watch -thank goodness MTS2000des was good enough to post the important time.
I do not see how anyone stayed in that room for that.

I am beginning to think I made a mistake using my Amateur Call for my ID on rr.
I am NOT one of those "whackers" by any means, and fully support all sys admins.

A even sadder part is when these folk get promoted to a high level position in communications in a govt agency - and then encourage such ignorance in the course of doing that job. Of course they usually don't last and he didn't either.
I can not/will not say - but was berated on the phone and in an email chain (which I kept) for refusing to program unlicensed VHF frequencies in to about 200 Public Safety radios to be used as addittional Interop channels.

NAS in this case means : Negligent And Stupid

 

[natedawg1604]

.....
NAS in this case means : Negligent And Stupid

There is a video on vimeo produced quite a few years ago by 2 college kids that explains it very succinctly. It's not hard to figure out!! I dare say there is probably between 50-100 threads on RR alone about it.

 

[MILCOMM]

I have been asked this question many times but I would like to hear from you guys:

What is wrong using a Motorola, Kenwood etc as a receive only radio for trunking systems?

And why won't some shops program them?

 

[natedawg1604]

I have been asked this question many times but I would like to hear from you guys:

What is wrong using a Motorola, Kenwood etc as a receive only radio for trunking systems?

Ask Mr. Dean lol.

 

[MILCOMM]

Ask Mr. Dean lol.

Poor Mr. Dean! I wonder if he feels picked on?

 

[KevinC]

Poor Mr. Dean! I wonder if he feels picked on?

For breaking the law? I think I’m not sure that defense will work.

 

[Outerdog]

What is wrong using a Motorola, Kenwood etc as a receive only radio for trunking systems?

It's fine when done correctly.