FCC Enforcement, tasty, tasty enforcement….

[KevinC]

Probably a lot of things.

I agree.

 

[rjschilder]

LLA is the way to go for sure. Not 256 bit, but still tough to guess a random 128 bit key for each unique subscriber. The real treat is implementing LLA, AES256 the talkgroups, and with L3 radios you can encrypt the talkgroup IDs over the air (maybe the radio ID too? Don't recall off hand)

 

[ElroyJetson]

Once I would have been angry if I had ever learned that someday I would be saying this....but I'm glad for Harris radios. True safe NAS is trivially easy with them. The ability to listen without any interaction by transmitting with the system is built in. Just uncheck all TX and login boxes.

But even this has become more difficult with the latest radios and software releases. Not the no-affiliate scanning, but just gaining access to trunking data for certain P25 systems.

 

[KI5EDJ]

I have a personal policy of if I don't know what it does, I don't mess with it. A used radio I bought had single site Capacity Plus in it and the list was populated with info from some resort in Florida. I cleared the info from the list and built its (my) codeplug the usual way, leaving the Capacity Plus lists empty and without an RAS key.

 

[GROL]

220, 221, whatever it takes.

38, 39, whatever it took. If you also remember that one you have seen that movie too many times as I have. And it just gets funnier every time I watch it! Also from another movie.

But back on topic I never open up my Ham transceivers so I don't wander into never ever land. I listen to public safety with my Alinco DJ- MD5 but all those channels are programmed with transmit inhibit. Everyone that wants to justify out of band transmit enabling talks about when the crap hits the fan, well if that ever happened it would be nothing to opening up a radio then, but until then there is no need to do it ahead of time and probably no need then either. PS agencies will authorize auxiliary users when necessary. Until then, the safety of PS personnel should be paramount.

 

[KI5EDJ]

If the time comes, programming this fleet of Baofengs to transmit on whatever frequency is indeed a trivial matter.
One admission: some of my ham units are programmed to transmit and receive on 156.800 MHz. Yes that is the marine emergency channel (16). No I don't transmit on it though the one night a small boat tried to run me down on my kayak, I probably should have. Yes it *is* legal to transmit on that frequency in an emergency, but my wife and I both had our hands full with evasive action.
I keep that frequency programmed because when just a seven by two foot fiberglass tub separates me from the drink, things can go south in a real big hurry and swimming ten miles to shore was not what I had in mind. Especially when I'm surrounded by orcas.

 

[mmckenna]

A purpose built waterproof VHF marine radio with distress button would probably be a good investment if you and your wife venture out like that. Something like an EPRIB or PLB would be a good addition.
Being able to send out your location when something does go wrong is worth your life and the cost of dedicated radio. Finding a pair of humans 10 miles from shore in the dark isn't easy, especially when we didn't know where to look. Even when we did know where to look, it was exceedingly difficult.

Life safety, especially your own, should not be something that goes to the lowest cost solution.

 

[GROL]

A purpose built waterproof VHF marine radio with distress button would probably be a good investment if you and your wife venture out like that. Something like an EPRIB or PLB would be a good addition.
Being able to send out your location when something does go wrong is worth your life and the cost of dedicated radio. Finding a pair of humans 10 miles from shore in the dark isn't easy, especially when we didn't know where to look. Even when we did know where to look, it was exceedingly difficult.

Life safety, especially your own, should not be something that goes to the lowest cost solution.

And handheld VHF marine radios are very inexpensive. If you ever go on the water you should have one with you. I bought a Uniden MHS75 several years ago for $90. Great little radio. It does scan, dual watch or tri-watch so easy to monitor 16/9 or 16/9/13. I got it for dedicated monitoring at the beach and for a what if I were on a boat. I bought a 12 foot 8 inch inflatable catamaran a little over a year ago and put it on the inland waters at Key largo last year. That boat packs up in the back of my Explorer. The MHS75 went on the boat. It kept me informed, and ready. I am taking delivery of an 18 foot SeaDoo Switch Cruise pontoon boat later this month. I already have plans for a 25 watt VHF Marine transceiver and antenna for it. Most 25 watt VHF marine radios are only around $250.00 and a decent antenna less than $100.00. A very small investment for safety. Trying to have a do all radio is not the best solution, especially since VHF marine radios are so affordable. With marine radio you also have to answer to the USCG and not just the FCC.

 

[GROL]

And handheld VHF marine radios are very inexpensive. If you ever go on the water you should have one with you. I bought a Uniden MHS75 several years ago for $90. Great little radio. It does scan, dual watch or tri-watch so easy to monitor 16/9 or 16/9/13. I got it for dedicated monitoring at the beach and for a what if I were on a boat. I bought a 12 foot 8 inch inflatable catamaran a little over a year ago and put it on the inland waters at Key largo last year. That boat packs up in the back of my Explorer. The MHS75 went on the boat. It kept me informed, and ready. I am taking delivery of an 18 foot SeaDoo Switch Cruise pontoon boat later this month. I already have plans for a 25 watt VHF Marine transceiver and antenna for it. Most 25 watt VHF marine radios are only around $250.00 and a decent antenna less than $100.00. A very small investment for safety. Trying to have a do all radio is not the best solution, especially since VHF marine radios are so affordable. With marine radio you also have to answer to the USCG and not just the FCC.

Oops. Meant to type $150.00 for 25 watt VHF marine radio.

 

[KI5EDJ]

That's good advice.
I bought a Uniden Altantis last year for about $130 I hoped I could either communicate with or at least listen to the Foss Maritime crew as they brought her in.
I have used the radio twice so far. I also obtained a Marine Radio Operator Permit, but I'm not sure it's needed to operate the handheld VHF radio. I learned quite a bit while studying for it, though.
I will probably still carry the VHF ham radio along with it if there's room on whatever boat I'm on.
The FRS units keep us in touch as a group. For the people who normally don't use a radio, they're easy to pick up and use.
If we start going out further than local lakes and rivers, I'll get epirbs or plb's for each person. The biggest body of water I've been on is Richland Chambers Reservoir. I tried launching into the Gulf of Mexico last May but couldn't keep control of the kayak. I think had I launched between the jetties I would have had better luck. The following day hundreds of us watched the carrier USS Kitty Hawk as it was towed into the Port of Brownsville. A few folks were in kayaks like mine. I took off on foot down the north jetty and followed her in. I never did find the frequencies they were on. My hands were full with a camera the whole time.
Where I live I'm not sure how much marine frequencies get used. I think it's mostly on the Oklahoma River where they have yours and some Olympic events.

 

[mmckenna]

That's good advice.
I bought a Uniden Altantis last year for about $130 I hoped I could either communicate with or at least listen to the Foss Maritime crew as they brought her in.
I have used the radio twice so far. I also obtained a Marine Radio Operator Permit, but I'm not sure it's needed to operate the handheld VHF radio.

Not required for Marine VHF recreational boating use. That's all license by rule now.

 

[KI5EDJ]

Thanks for the clarification.
I missed a little info in my original post. The event I went to last Memorial Day in "Brownsville" (Actually South Padre Island) was a memorial for the second ship named USS Kitty Hawk and her crew. Kitty was the guest of honor, brought in by the oceangoing tug Michele Foss, the harbor tug Magic, and observed by numerous boats of all sizes on the way in. As usual, they were escorted by a number of curious bottlenose dolphins.

 

[ElroyJetson]

I would never recommend such a thing but it is posssible to set up simplex communications in the 700 MHz band, which in many locales is utterly empty, nobody using it, and if you were to run encryption on that, you'd be in a low probability of intercept scenario.

I'm pretty sure it's been done before, of course. I've seen people at a hamfest communicating with 700/800 MHz radios and found nothing on the SDR in the 800 MHz range but there were a few signals that came and went in the 700 MHz range. In an area where there literally are no 700 MHz users....frankly, who cares? Not me. I subscribe to the "no harm, no foul" rule in most cases. Show me an injured party. Show me whose communications were compromised. Then I'll support enforcement.

 

[natedawg1604]

I would never recommend such a thing but it is posssible to set up simplex communications in the 700 MHz band, which in many locales is utterly empty, nobody using it, and if you were to run encryption on that, you'd be in a low probability of intercept scenario.

I'm pretty sure it's been done before, of course. I've seen people at a hamfest communicating with 700/800 MHz radios and found nothing on the SDR in the 800 MHz range but there were a few signals that came and went in the 700 MHz range. In an area where there literally are no 700 MHz users....frankly, who cares? Not me. I subscribe to the "no harm, no foul" rule in most cases. Show me an injured party. Show me whose communications were compromised. Then I'll support enforcement.

It seems like it would be much easier to use VHF or UHF ham simplex freqs, there are a lot of them available.

 

[mmckenna]

It seems like it would be much easier to use VHF or UHF ham simplex freqs, there are a lot of them available.

You'd think, at least on the ham side.

A lot of uneducated types will assume that if they can procure a radio via any handy vendor, that it must be totally legal to use anywhere they want, whenever they want, however they want. Just like Baofengs, people will buy a commercial/LMR radio and just assume it's some sort of fancy CB radio...

And then you have those that understand the rules, but don't care, or assume that they don't apply to them.

And then you have the misguided hams that assume the entire electromagnetic spectrum is their playground and their Part 97 license give them full/unrestricted access to it.

 

[ElroyJetson]

The reality is that you're more likely to get a ticket for jaywalking than you are for making unauthorized use of an empty channel for occasional short range communications.

There are two kinds of unauthorized transmissions: Those that cause interference or harm to licensed users, and those that can not be demonstrated to have caused any harm to any service or any users.

If I ran the zoo, the first category would be subject to aggressive enforcement, and the second category would be studiously ignored as a waste of limited enforcement resources.

 

[mmckenna]

The reality is that you're more likely to get a ticket for jaywalking than you are for making unauthorized use of an empty channel for occasional short range communications.

I agree.

My concern is that a new ham that just passed a multiple choice test would not have the experience, knowledge or understanding to make that choice. Average Joe consumer buying a CCR off Amazon and using the pre-loaded frequencies would know even less.

Someone running simplex on a repeater input would assume no one else was on the channel.

I went through this a few years ago. A local community college set up their irrigation control system on one of my repeater inputs. The irrigation guy assumed because his receiver was not hearing anything that there was no way they were interfering with anyone. The "no harm, no foul" attitude was applied. When I tracked them down and explained how repeaters worked, and how his 2 watt system that transmitted data bursts every few minutes was totally wiping out a high level system, he had that "Oh, $4!†" look on his face.
What made it worse is that I did a tiny bit of research and discovered that they had a properly coordinated frequency for their irrigation control system. It came down to someone who "ASS-U-ME'd" that it didn't matter and just taking any handy frequency was OK.
It was a good learning moment, and everyone acted professional. Issue resolved.

Point being, I don't trust a ham radio operator or any other hobbyist to make the right choice when it comes to things like this. What makes it worse, is they have access to plenty of spectrum to do what they want, yet some still feel the need to go searching for more spectrum to play in.

 

[GROL]

The reality is that you're more likely to get a ticket for jaywalking than you are for making unauthorized use of an empty channel for occasional short range communications.

There are two kinds of unauthorized transmissions: Those that cause interference or harm to licensed users, and those that can not be demonstrated to have caused any harm to any service or any users.

If I ran the zoo, the first category would be subject to aggressive enforcement, and the second category would be studiously ignored as a waste of limited enforcement resources.

Most people that operate outside their authorization either by license or rule, would be in no reasonable position to know for sure they cannot cause harm to a service or user. Even licensed users do things often that cause harmful interference or impede authorized use.

If you don't have any kind of FCC license to jeopardize I suppose you can push the envelope and wish. If you do have an FCC license they have much more of a hold over you. Imagine you are a business owner that depends on an FCC license to conduct business and get caught operating outside your authorization, or any other misuse. It could impact your livelihood. If you have an amateur license you can lose it, and if you continue to operate even on amateur frequencies the enforcement will be more aggressive.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

If I ran the zoo, the first category would be subject to aggressive enforcement, and the second category would be studiously ignored as a waste of limited enforcement resources.

The problem is that you would run out of money long before you got to do anything past Part 73, 80 and 22 enforcement. By the time you get through all the rest of the categories, Part 97 might as well be part 95D.

 

[mmckenna]

Truth is, there are plenty of slices of spectrum to play in.
Amateur Radio
CB Radio
FRS
GMRS
MURS
Part 15

Yet there are those that are still not happy and will decide they need to hop someone else's fence and play in their yard.

"If I don't get caught, it must be OK"
I get it.
I'm sure Mr. D. B. Cooper felt the same way with all that money.

But we all know that the FCC doesn't have the resources or desire to chase most of this stuff down unless it get stupid blatant.
As for the original post in this thread, the individual got a major case of the stupids and kept it going long enough that he could be easily tracked down. A trained amateur radio operator, God of the Electromagnetic Spectrum. What could have possibly gone wrong?