FleetNet Mapping Questions.

[gb_allen]

So, lately I've been looking for help with some of the things I'm seeing within Zone 1 and 2 of the FleetNet P25 system here in Ontario. I've been helped by members with things to try etc (big Thanks). I'm Located near Peterborough and should have coverage of the Peterborough, Pontypool, Cobourg, Campbellford and Whitby sites. I scanned all freq for zone 1 & 2 with a scanner and verified that I hear the control channel grind for above sites.

I've isolated my Zone 1 and 2 favourites list on one scanner (S1) to just those sites. On a second scanner (S2) I loaded in all sites within Zone 1 and 2. I then captured a sample of logged comm's over the period of an evening. Loaded both of the log files into a database so I could compare the Traffic captured by each scanner.

1st study criteria and findings (Scanner1 = S1 & Scanner2 = S2);

I linked the two scanner log files base on:
- UID on S1 = UID on S2 ( I understand each radio has a unique User ID)
- Comm Start Date/Time S1 = Comm Start Date/Time S2 (Exactly down to Seconds)
- Site on S1 <> Site on S2

Case 1) : Different: Zone, Site, Department and Channel ::

Com Start Date & Time S1 = S2
TalkGroup S1 & S2 = 8633
Freq S1 & S2 = 143.070 (Freq used as : S1 - Talk Chan / S2 - Control Chan)
UID S1 & S2 = 23462
Zone S1 = Zone 2
Zone S2 = Zone 1
Site S1 = Peterborough(PETERB)
Site S2 = Penetang 30PENE
Department S1 = OPP Detachments (Detachment Special Events)
Department S2 = OPP West Region
Channel S1 = Kawartha Lakes 1J - 2OPS08
Channel S2 = Middlesex County 6J - 1OPS09

Case 2) : Different: TalkGroup, Site, Department and Channel
and Frequency not listed for either site? ::

Com Start Date & Time S1 = S2
Talk Group S1 = 8336
Talk Group S2 = 8832
Freq S1 & S2 = 143.325 (Freq not listed for either site?)
UID S1 & S2 = 23462 (same as Case 1?)
Zone S1 & S2 = Zone 2
Site S1 = Peterborough(PETERB)
Site S2 = GateHouse(GHOUSE)
Department S1 = OPP Detachments (Detachment Special Events)
Department S2 = OPP Combined Regular Operations)
Channel S1 = Kawartha Lakes 1J - 2OPS08
Channel S2 = Northumberland 1F/Peterborough 1J 2OPS39

Case 3) : Different: TalkGroup, Site and Channel ::

Com Start Date & Time S1 = S2
Talk Group S1 = 8448
Talk Group S2 = 8336
Freq S1 & S2 = 143.010 (Talk Chan on both sites)
UID S1 & S2 = 4049
Zone S1 & S2 = Zone 2
Site S1 = Peterborough(PETERB)
Site S2 = GateHouse(GHOUSE)
Department S1 = OPP Detachments (Detachment Special Events)
Department S2 = OPP Detachments (Detachment Special Events)
Channel S1 = Peterborough 1J 2OPS15
Channel S2 = Kawartha Lakes 1J - 2OPS08

These are but a few examples that I found.. Quick review only.

Can someone explain the above differences, why do the comm's appear on different Talk Groups, Sites and channels?
Why in Case 2 does the Frequency not appear in the RR Database listing for either site?

Sorry, I'm a real noob when it comes to digital scanning and trunk systems in general. I want to isolate my fav list to sites that make sense so I dont waste time scanning areas that are either repetitive or non active for my area based on distance. I will poke around in my sample data for different examples.

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks in advance .. GB

 

[mciupa]

It's very unlikely you would have heard a 6 Juliet unit from Middlesex in Peterborough. Whatever talkgroup shows up, listen to their identifiers like 1OPS or 2OPS and the 1 or 2 alpha identifiers. That will help you with the location.
Are you using an outdoor antenna?

 

[gb_allen]

Yes I have a TRAM 1411 about 13-15' off ground.. Using a multicoupler to share the antenna with more than one radio. I agree, I shouldn't be hearing stuff from that far away, yet I have numerous loggings of comms from a lot of areas well outside of my expected listen area (Burks Falls, Ipperwash, Brantford, Harcourt, Harrowsmith, Prescott for example) . The actual communications appear to be associated with the local area and not the far away sites. Any idea what is causing the duplication of comms with different sites & talk groups? Are certain talk groups linked and or replicated province wide? Would having the same freq on two sites be a cause?

one thing I'm not sure of yet. are there comms on talk groups and UID from Sites outside my expected listen areas that are not replicated on a local expect near PTBO site location? I will need to sort thru the database more..

looking for insight.. thanks. GB

 

[mikewazowski]

First of all, FleetNet is not a P25 system. It's an old Motorola Smartzone system that just happens to have P25 voice.

Second of all, each FleetNet zone is a distinct system and not linked to any other zone so what you hear on Zone 1, will not appear on Zone 2. Bell was too cheap to pay for the option to link zones together. So in case 1, what you hear on Penetang will not be heard at any sites in Zone 2.

Talkgroups are patched routinely together depending on dispatcher workload. It wouldn't be surprising to hear Peterborough and Kawartha Lakes to be patched together. A car in the Peterborough area will be on the Peterborough group and a car in Kawartha Lakes will be on the Kawartha Lakes group but they will hear each other.

 

[EJB]

Who dispatches calls out your way in Zone 2? Orillia? In the GTA and west London now dispatches calls. If you hear anything this far west you will hear calls for 5 Foxtrot (Toronto and Durham region) or 5 Bravo for Aurora for York Region.

I doubt you heard 6Julliet, Middlesex County, radios affiliating with anything beginning with 6 don't even affiliate with Hamilton's tower and its right next door.

As mentioned, most OPP detachments are patched, I heard plenty of Northumberland, Kawartha, Peterborough detachments and even Frontenac patched together when I was on the boundary between zone 1 and 2

Maybe maybe in the summer during a heatwave when conditions bring heat from northern Ontario u might be able to snag a tower towards the west over 150 KM.

 

[gb_allen]

Who dispatches calls out your way in Zone 2? Orillia? In the GTA and west London now dispatches calls. If you hear anything this far west you will hear calls for 5 Foxtrot (Toronto and Durham region) or 5 Bravo for Aurora for York Region.

I doubt you heard 6Julliet, Middlesex County, radios affiliating with anything beginning with 6 don't even affiliate with Hamilton's tower and its right next door.

As mentioned, most OPP detachments are patched, I heard plenty of Northumberland, Kawartha, Peterborough detachments and even Frontenac patched together when I was on the boundary between zone 1 and 2

Maybe maybe in the summer during a heatwave when conditions bring heat from northern Ontario u might be able to snag a tower towards the west over 150 KM.

Are the UID unique to each radio? I assume there would only be one Radio with UID = 23462 within the entire FleetNet system? I linked the separate capture logs from each scanner based on same UID and exact same start TX time. It would be impossible for those two variables to be the same down to the second.

Is the scanner screwing up the information displayed and captured to the logs for Site , Department and Channel then? I'm almost certain that I was hearing the same conversation on each scanner at the same time (at least in most cases 99%)

I believe Lindsay does the MOH stuff

 

[EJB]

Are the UID unique to each radio? I assume there would only be one Radio with UID = 23462 within the entire Fleetnet system? I linked the separate capture logs from each scanner based on Same UID & Exact same start TX time. It would be Impossible for those two variables to be the same down to the second. Is the scanner screwing up the information Displayed & Captured to the logs for Site , Department and Channel then? I'm almost certain that I was hearing the same conversation on each scanner at the same time (at least in most cases 99%)

Every radio has a unique radio I'd.
23462 is probably a console for the Orillia dispatch centre.

Each car, be it EMS, MTOE, MTO, OPP has unique UID's.

I have collected and tagged 10,000's of UID's. When new radios were put in I started again.

You'll see patterns, MTOE will have #'s around 64-65,000, OPP will be 52-55000 or so.

I believe Lindsay does the MOH stuff

I'm not familiar with your area CACC's. I generally focus on my area, Mississauga CACC, Hamilton, Niagara, and when I'm able to use better antenna Cambridge and London.

I was talking about the OPP and MTOE, I think Orillia is the comm centre for your area. Orillia used to cover the GTA/Peninsula, now London covers from my area to Windsor to the Bruce Peninsula.

 

[gb_allen]

Every radio has a unique radio I'd.
23462 is probably a console for the Orillia dispatch centre.

Each car, be it EMS, MTOE, MTO, OPP has unique UID's.

I have collected and tagged 10,000's of UID's. When new radios were put in I started again.

You'll see patterns, MTOE will have #'s around 64-65,000, OPP will be 52-55000 or so.


I'm not familiar with your area CACC's. I generally focus on my area, Mississauga CACC, Hamilton, Niagara, and when I'm able to use better antenna Cambridge and London.

I was talking about the OPP and MTOE, I think Orillia is the comm centre for your area. Orillia used to cover the GTA/Peninsula, now London covers from my area to Windsor to the Bruce Peninsula.

Sorry, just recently picked back up the hobby. I'm not sure who dispatches OPP nor MTOE. Thanks for the information regarding the UID's. I'll run a count by UID to see if certain UID's are used more often than others, if so they would reflect as you say a dispatch console etc..

Thanks again!!!

 

[EJB]

You'll see that the dispatchers for the OPP, MTOE, will be 24xxx, the EMS dispatchers will have 14xxx, the MNR dispatchers will be 28333. The actual cars and EMS out there will have different numbers. You'll see patterns.

 

[Muxlow]

I use to tag OPP vehicles but what I'd have as a 6Mike 401 today might be a 6Mike 602 tomorrow, or have even seen them end up in a different county with a Juliet call sign. I try to log the hard ID of the vehicle, so the number that's on the side of the car. That radio ID is assigned to that specific car ID number and that doesn't change unless they replace the vehicle or radio. The unit call signs are called "Soft ID's" since they change per shift.

Can't remember but it's one or the other. Day shift units are even numbers so example 6Mike 101 6Papa 403, 6Echo 606. Night units would be odd numbered 6Mike 102, 6Papa 404, 6Echo 608

EMS for the most part haven't changed. I tag them as Unit 1138 Sarnia, as that wont change unless that truck is replaced and that unit number doesn't get used for a while

At this point in the game, it's almost pointless to log any new radios since they will be going byebye at some point and the new radio ID have nothing to do with the old ones. But for some fun, why not do it anyways?, right

 

[EJB]

Keeps my brain working, it's fun for me.