G5RV dipoles ?..

[KD8NIV]

Hoping this G5 talks really well, I no my 40m wire seems to do good at 20ft off the ground......I'm just getting started out, and do like to experiment with antennas so this should be fun.....someday I'd like to try a off center dipole, not sure how one would work in my situation, but be willing to try one, now that I have a place for one....

I no what pipe I used, and how I had my hinge plate and all welded up and made is over kill for this, but it was built like this for a reason, so I have options down the road, hope to work you guys out there in dx sometime, 73's for now...

 

[KD8NIV]

Update...

Have the mast pipe on the hinge plate, and is in the air, went up 32', and used the G5 which the center connection is 6" out from the bracket which I used 2 U bolts to mount it on the mast pipe, and have the legs going over the top of my trailer toward the mountain side in a angle, tied off to trees.........got the legs as far apart as I can get them.....not what I was hoping to do, but this small lot isn't the idea for a G5, but wanted to try it.....

Been able to tune in the 20m and 12m bands just using the tuner inside the radio....talks great on 20m, that's about all I can use on it right now, hoping to get more bands with a external tuner.....if I don't then will try something else...

I'm sure the G5 does a fine job, but my lot isn't big enough to stretch out the legs like they need to be...

Will go to a G5 Jr, or something smaller soon....

 

[NDRADIONUT]

FAN DIPOLES WORK WELL TOO...
MULTI BAND HF FAN DIPOLE ANTENNA DESIGN

 

[KD8NIV]

Update....

I took the Imax 2k, and the 40m dipole down so I could stretch the G5RV legs out across the back yard, on the one end it is 32' high, and the other end its 23' high, had to put the LL on the back porch just to get it off the ground, and I used the LMR 400UF coax and made a coax choke also....this tuned on 10-80m bands.....worked good until the other day had some hard winds come in and it broke one of the tie off lines I had on it....

So, yesterday I thought I had it fixed, but this morning the swr is up, not sure why, so went back out and fooled with it little more...the leg out here next to the hill side, had to tie this leg off closer to the shack to a pvc pipe, just to keep from going under the power lines with it....the LL took it off the porch and it now drops straight down, most of the way and took and tied it off to a tree stump on the hill side, also changed out the coax and went to about 60' of RG 213 coax, made a coax choke for it as well...

So, now it tunes for 10-80m, but thing is now swr is running a little higher on 80m band......have to say this G5RV is too long for what I have here to work with, probably end up going to a Jr size dipole, or a fan dipole, not sure yet....

 

[prcguy]

If a full size G5RV is too big at 102ft long, would a 93ft version fit any better? If you go to the 51ft G5RV Jr then you will completely loose 80m and 40m will be very hard to tune like 80m is now on your full size.

I've probably mentioned it before but there is a modern computer designed version of the G5RV called a ZS6BKW. Its about 93ft long and has about 40ft of critical length ladder line for tuning. What's good about this antenna is it actually has a great match on 40, 20, 17, 12, 10 and 6m without a tuner where the G5RV was only designed to have a good match on 20m. The ZS6BKW also works well on 80m with a tuner.

If you can rework your G5RV into a ZS6BKW and it fits your property you will have a better antenna.
prcguy

Update....

I took the Imax 2k, and the 40m dipole down so I could stretch the G5RV legs out across the back yard, on the one end it is 32' high, and the other end its 23' high, had to put the LL on the back porch just to get it off the ground, and I used the LMR 400UF coax and made a coax choke also....this tuned on 10-80m bands.....worked good until the other day had some hard winds come in and it broke one of the tie off lines I had on it....

So, yesterday I thought I had it fixed, but this morning the swr is up, not sure why, so went back out and fooled with it little more...the leg out here next to the hill side, had to tie this leg off closer to the shack to a pvc pipe, just to keep from going under the power lines with it....the LL took it off the porch and it now drops straight down, most of the way and took and tied it off to a tree stump on the hill side, also changed out the coax and went to about 60' of RG 213 coax, made a coax choke for it as well...

So, now it tunes for 10-80m, but thing is now swr is running a little higher on 80m band......have to say this G5RV is too long for what I have here to work with, probably end up going to a Jr side dipole, or a fan dipole, not sure yet....

 

[KD8NIV]

The G5RV, runs through the back yard, in the areas where it is away from the power lines, kinda in a angle....and the last 6-8' end of the leg has been a pain in the butt trying to tie it off and not go under the power lines, shoot never thought about just bring it to the ground where the dipole wire runs through a eye bolt...may try this 1st ....LL has been fun too trying to keep it coming straight down and off the ground...

Yeah think 93' is the length of my lot that's it.....lol, the 40' of LL would be fun keeping it off the ground for sure lol...the G5RV does ok I guess, thing is with it, it is hanging in about a NW and SE direction...really don't have anywhere I can go with it to tie the one leg off without going under the power lines, except to pull it back toward the shack, tied it off this time with Dacron rope..

Sure would be sweet if I had a tree in the yard I could use lol..not sure how it talks the way I have it now, haven't had a chance to try it out.....really hate to loose the 80m band....

I was going to buy one of those dipoles that ZS6BKW builds, but saw on eham.net where the guy passed away and nobody was building those dipoles anymore.....that was back in January I saw it..

I'll look into it and see how much I need to cut off the G5RV and look into getting some LL too..just guessing there's 32' LL on the g5rv...

Thing I'm running into beside the power lines is all the metal I have here to work around...

 

[prcguy]

Nobody buys a ZS6BKW, they build it. For insulated wire in the 14 to 12ga size 92 to 93ft overall is a good length. If its not insulated then 94ft is good. Start with 42ft of 450 ohm ladder line and trim it until you get a good match around 7.2Mhz on 40m then all the bands just fall into place. You need a good 1:1 common mode choke between the ladder line and coax, otherwise it just works.
prcguy

The G5RV, runs through the back yard, in the areas where it is away from the power lines, kinda in a angle....and the last 6-8' end of the leg has been a pain in the butt trying to tie it off and not go under the power lines, shoot never thought about just bring it to the ground where the dipole wire runs through a eye bolt...may try this 1st ....LL has been fun too trying to keep it coming straight down and off the ground...

Yeah think 93' is the length of my lot that's it.....lol, the 40' of LL would be fun keeping it off the ground for sure lol...the G5RV does ok I guess, thing is with it, it is hanging in about a NW and SE direction...really don't have anywhere I can go with it to tie the one leg off without going under the power lines, except to pull it back toward the shack, tied it off this time with Dacron rope..

Sure would be sweet if I had a tree in the yard I could use lol..not sure how it talks the way I have it now, haven't had a chance to try it out.....really hate to loose the 80m band....

I was going to buy one of those dipoles that ZS6BKW builds, but saw on eham.net where the guy passed away and nobody was building those dipoles anymore.....that was back in January I saw it..

I'll look into it and see how much I need to cut off the G5RV and look into getting some LL too..just guessing there's 32' LL on the g5rv...

Thing I'm running into beside the power lines is all the metal I have here to work around...

 

[n3ouc]

ZS6BKW Antenna

I really have to second PRCGUY's recommendation of the ZS6BKW antenna. I built one and have it up at 42' in the center and 20' on the ends. This puppy really plays!! Excellent on 80, 40, 20,17 and 10 meters. I have had it up for about 2 months and almost have DXCC with a majority of my contacts on 80 and 40.
The two keys to this antenna is to get it up at least 40' in the center and feed it with at least 50-70 feet of coax. I am using LMR400 but RG8X will work well too.
A really good antenna choice if you have limited space.

73 Mike

 

[KD8NIV]

Thanks guys, have it as high as I can go with it, without going under the power lines here....
Its a bit long for my lot, but will have to make it work, still need to work on it, have about 7' need to tie it off somewhere else, and think I'm going to make a clothes line prop to keep the LL off the ground, it tunes on 10-80m bands no problems....thing I ran into is its longer than my lot is...

Not having any tree's in the yard to use has been a pain to hang it, without going under the power lines......if I was to put it in the tree's on the hill side, I'd have to go under the power lines and I don't want to do that, so just going to make do with it, pretty much up against it here, the way it hangs right now its in a straight line across the yard, except for the last 7' of it, and it hangs in like a NW to SE direction.......I also took the long coax I had on it off and went with the RG 213 coax for this short run.....

 

[Mikedp]

I really have to second PRCGUY's recommendation of the ZS6BKW antenna. I built one and have it up at 42' in the center and 20' on the ends. This puppy really plays!! Excellent on 80, 40, 20,17 and 10 meters. I have had it up for about 2 months and almost have DXCC with a majority of my contacts on 80 and 40.
The two keys to this antenna is to get it up at least 40' in the center and feed it with at least 50-70 feet of coax. I am using LMR400 but RG8X will work well too.
A really good antenna choice if you have limited space.

73 Mike

I've been reading about this ZS6BKW antenna, and I could easily do without 80 meters if it could reduce the total length substantially. I also have a fairly small lot. Is this even possible with this design? And what would be involved? I have a feeling it's not as simple as cutting back on a regualr dipole.

 

[prcguy]

In a word, no. The ZS6BKW is designed to have a good match without a tuner from 40 through 10m minus 15m and on 80m its just a random length but works fine with a tuner. I suppose someone could model it as a 20 through 6m version but then 40m would have a lousy match and require a tuner.

It would be similar to comparing the full size G5RV designed for 20m but its large enough to tune ok 80 through 10m where the half size G5RV Jr is a 10m antenna that happens to be just big enough to (sort of) work on 40m and 80m is out of the question.
prcguy

I've been reading about this ZS6BKW antenna, and I could easily do without 80 meters if it could reduce the total length substantially. I also have a fairly small lot. Is this even possible with this design? And what would be involved? I have a feeling it's not as simple as cutting back on a regualr dipole.

 

[KD8NIV]

Good info there on that dipole, just curious how much did you have to cut off the 40' of ladder line ?

Cant get that height here, 32' on the one end and have 23-25' on the other end....this is right at about a 95' span now with the G5RV because I have right at 7' which comes through a eye bolt I have on the pole..

Problem I have with this is getting the ladder line off the ground and away from all the metal, without going under the power lines....this is why I was asking how much you had to cut off the 40' of ladder line......

Question, does the ladder line need to drop straight down from the center ?.....
Is it going to hurt its performance if it has a loop in it ?..

I'm going to use what I have for now, but will switch it over to a dipole like you guys went too.....wrote down the measurements....the 95', would this include some if it needs to be folded back on its self ?..

Got me 2 bones and looking for some wire, I no you guys said it doesn't make a difference been insulated, but that's what I prefer to use here, all do to the power lines, and all the metal present on my install...

 

[KD8NIV]

Have a question for you guys on the G5RV...

Mine is hanging in a west to north direction at 300 degrees, and the other end is closer to the east direction at a 120 degrees direction....according to the compass I have...
Thing is, I'm in a valley with mountains all around me....

What directions should it talk ?...

 

[prcguy]

I tune the ladder line for best match on 40m with 93ft of insulated wire and I never measured the final length. I usually start with about 42ft and end up cutting off a foot or more so its probably in the 40-41ft range.

The ladder line can go sideways or down or go sideways for a distance then down, the key is to have it come off the antenna at a right angle as much as possible. Your 32ft to 23ft height is also fine and typical for many installations.

At about 32ft you would be at a half wavelength on 20m and a full wavelength on 10m giving you a low angle of radiation for good DX on those bands and on 80 and 40m you will get great regional coverage in NVIS mode. With my ZS6BKW at about 30-35ft horizontal I am able to work coast to coast in the evenings on 40 and 80m with 100w, so even though is at a height that favors NVIS it does get a signal out to the sides ok.
prcguy

Good info there on that dipole, just curious how much did you have to cut off the 40' of ladder line ?

Cant get that height here, 32' on the one end and have 23-25' on the other end....this is right at about a 95' span now with the G5RV because I have right at 7' which comes through a eye bolt I have on the pole..

Problem I have with this is getting the ladder line off the ground and away from all the metal, without going under the power lines....this is why I was asking how much you had to cut off the 40' of ladder line......

Question, does the ladder line need to drop straight down from the center ?.....
Is it going to hurt its performance if it has a loop in it ?..

I'm going to use what I have for now, but will switch it over to a dipole like you guys went too.....wrote down the measurements....the 95', would this include some if it needs to be folded back on its self ?..

Got me 2 bones and looking for some wire, I no you guys said it doesn't make a difference been insulated, but that's what I prefer to use here, all do to the power lines, and all the metal present on my install...

 

[KD8NIV]

Good info there, wrote down that info in a notebook, may end up going that route....


I'm still wrestling the G5RV around, having a problem getting the dang ladder line up off the ground ......ended up, with the ladder line coming straight down guess it's about 12ft off the ground and from there it has a dip in it and is hanging on a piece of 18ft pvc pipe and the coax choke is a little below it.....and the coax hangs freely coming down the pipe to the ground and into the shack, running about 50ft of RG 213 coax on it.......since then I also tied off the 7-8ft left over to a tree stump used the Dacron rope for this, near the bottom of the pole.....the swr is running from 10m through to the 40m band a 1.1, and on 7.3 swr is a 1.5.......but now for some reason on 80m the swr is running above a 3 and the tuner won't tune it......I haven't talked on 80m any so it not that big of deal for me...

Now on the 20m band the swr is a 1.1....

Can't complain much about this dipole, it talked really well over the last couple weeks....on 20m anyways........just don't no what to do to keep the LL up off the ground and away from all the metal......


Would love to have a tree in the yard I can use lol..

 

[AC2OY]

Ok, I was wondering how or what bands the Jr will actually do using a tuner....

Really don't have the room for the full size dipole, been trying to figure away to get one in here, but with all the power lines, don't see it happening.......

KD8 if you have room or area limitation,have you considered a vertical antenna? A guy in my club had the Comet 250-B so I went out and bought that very same antenna and it works very well for me. If you have any questions shoot me a PM. Good luck with whatever you do keep us posted.

 

[prcguy]

Here is a very good analysis on the G5RV showing 3D patterns for various bands. This should give you an idea where yours is working best. http://www.bvarc.org/pdf/g5rv_w5rh.pdf
prcguy

Have a question for you guys on the G5RV...

Mine is hanging in a west to north direction at 300 degrees, and the other end is closer to the east direction at a 120 degrees direction....according to the compass I have...
Thing is, I'm in a valley with mountains all around me....

What directions should it talk ?...

 

[prcguy]

If you compare a Comet 250-B to just about any other no radial vertical like a Cushcraft R7000 or GAP Titan, etc, you will see why most of us who have experimented with them avoid it like the plague.

Going from a G5RV or ZS6BKW, or 40m off center fed dipole or 40m EFHW wire, etc, to a Cushcraft R7000 or GAP Titan is a big hit in performance and especially on the lower bands. Going from a Cushcraft R7000 or GAP Titan to a Coment 250-B is another huge hit in performance. Comparing a reasonable size wire antenna to the Comet is a night and day type of difference.

If you are even somewhat happy with a Comet 250-B then you will wet yourself if you try a one of the wire antennas I mentioned. In my opinion a Comet 250-B should not be a recommended antenna for any reason.

Say, didn't you have a bunch of posts awhile back about being able to hear stations and they would not come back to you? Does that tell you something about the Comet 250-B antenna your using? I usually run 10w when on travel and with a good wire antenna I have never failed to talk back to anyone that I can hear, and that includes stations running full legal limit. Your antenna can be way more important than the radio you run when making contacts.
prcguy

KD8 if you have room or area limitation,have you considered a vertical antenna? A guy in my club had the Comet 250-B so I went out and bought that very same antenna and it works very well for me. If you have any questions shoot me a PM. Good luck with whatever you do keep us posted.

 

[KD8NIV]

Good info there prcguy...

I'm going to stay with the G5RV for awhile and see how it does, will raise the one side up some more and see what happens then.....

But down the road, I'm sure I will try that dipole you guys are running, I like trying new things with antennas....which ladder line did you guys use, stranded, solid what gage...

 

[prcguy]

For my permanent home antenna I used 14ga stranded ladder line but I've also made lots of G5RVs and ZS6BKWs with 18ga and even with TV twinlead. Stranded wire ladder line should last a little longer blowing around in the wind.

At full legal limit and picking 10 ohms as a possible impedance bump along the line, you would have about 12A of current at that spot. With a 5 ohm spot the current would be about 17A. With SSB or CW being a low duty cycle mode and the average current being maybe half or less, I would not worry about using 18ga ladder line at full legal limit for those modes.
prcguy

Good info there prcguy...

I'm going to stay with the G5RV for awhile and see how it does, will raise the one side up some more and see what happens then.....

But down the road, I'm sure I will try that dipole you guys are running, I like trying new things with antennas....which ladder line did you guys use, stranded, solid what gage...