Gmrs - Confused

[mrplow]

Hi everyone,

Looking for help. I am looking for family and group communication. I have tried the generic gmrs/frs radios like the Motorola and they do not work well at all for my purpose at all. I am very much a believer you get what you pay for and I am willing to spend money on quality that I will have for a long time. Some key points and considerations. I currently have a Kenwood tk/270/370 that I have used to for two license free frequencies in my area but they get very busy, so that's not a option anymore. So the two many keys are:
- I live in rural country, forest, rolling hills, etc
- group highway travel
- work alone

If possible having a emergency distress button is important for working alone. Weather alert would be nice. I have looked at the baofeng. My experience is limited and I believe buying a more commercial product than a Walmart special is the way to go I just want clear range regardless of terrain for a minimum of 15 miles.
Do I need VHF or UHF ???
Should I get involved with the ham side of things ?? Understanding I need a license, etc
Is the icom f21gm the way to go ?
I prefer to not have to setup any repeaters.

Researching this makes a persons head spin which is why I am reaching out to everyone with experience I do not have.

Your feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks

Brent

 

[KampingAnthony1AolCo]

Hello I wanted to know what two freqs are the busiest. I heard you can get a Motorola Maxtrac mobile for GMRS. If you want 15 miles I don't think you will get that without a repeater.I would also suggest the Motorola CDM750 for GMRS. The only thing is that the unit does not meet the part 95 of the FCC Rules for GMRS. The Maxtrac does meet part 95. I also would suggest going with VHF because of where you live. VHF works best outside of the city like where you live. UHF works best around buildings and other obstructions. Hope this helps.

 

[SCPD]

Do not mess with the baofeng,the are junk IMO and they are not certified for GMRS.The choice you mentioned ICOM F-21 but not the GM version is a great radio and it will allow paging options in the radio on one of the buttons as we as the ICOM F-221 mobile as a base unit,you can also program them to non -standard ctcss tones where no one will bother you also,if you need any more info send me a private message...William

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Icom F21GM isn't my choice over a F21. If your used to the fact you can program button functionality on lmr's then you'll appreciate the F21 over the F21GM. Motor has some of the LMR lines that come from the factory preprogrammed for GMRS.

For family, GMRS is the way to go. 15 mi simplex is nothing for mobiles without a repeater but for handhelds you'll probably need a repeater.

 

[rapidcharger]

I just want clear range regardless of terrain for a minimum of 15 miles.
Do I need VHF or UHF ???

Just give up now. Don't waste another minute on this.
It doesn't matter how much you spend on a radio, you will be lucky to get one mile with a reasonable amount of static, let alone 15 in total clarity.

In order to get that kind of range in "

rural country, forest, rolling hills, etc

, you need infrastructure to make it happen. If it was as easily as buying a $38 baofeng, every one of the gmrs channels would be jam packed with activity.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

If you plan on using handhelds, your gonna need a repeater. UH mobile over that kind of terrain, should be doable but a repeater would make things work better.

 

[VE7WV]

Give up [...] you will be lucky to get one mile with a reasonable amount of static, let alone 15 in total clarity.

Agreed (assuming we are talking simplex only portable handhelds only).

 

[walruspwaterhead]

AT&T Enhanced Push to Talk Service|Two Way Radios|EPTT

 

[SCPD]

AT&T Enhanced Push to Talk Service|Two Way Radios|EPTT

I believe the OP is talking about radio not a commercial push to talk telephone service with a monthly service charge.

 

[rapidcharger]

Agreed (assuming we are talking simplex only portable handhelds only).

No, I'm talking about mobiles too.

RF at 25 or 50 watts becomes obstructed for the same reasons it does at 4 watts.
In the desert or in a wide open prarie, things obstructions and terrain may be more favorable but that isn't what the OP described. The OP won't do much better with a mobile to mobile or mobile to portable..

 

[VE7WV]

My response was focussed on the opening thought in your sentence:

> you will be lucky to get one mile with a reasonable amount of static,

While a low power portable with their stock antennas might have terrain-influenced trouble delivering clear copy between two points a mile or so apart, unless the terrain obstacles are extreme you'd usually expect two mobile rigs with a proper antenna installation to have little difficulty over that same distance.

Extend the distance to 10 - 30km, 5 - 15 miles, and yes, I absolutely agree that mobile installation(s) with often have issues delivering the sort of crystal clear copy (or *any* copy clear or otherwise) the OP envisions. When travelling through BC's mountainous terrain I find that line of sight and reflected signals change the useful mobile to mobile communications range (VHF/UHF) radically often from turn to turn. That said at other times when a long valley or height provides a cooperative environment I'll be able to reach further.

No doubt we agree the OP's expectations for portable and mobile simplex operation are not going to be met... time to reset expectations.

 

[SCPD]

My response was focussed on the opening thought in your sentence:

> you will be lucky to get one mile with a reasonable amount of static,

While a low power portable with their stock antennas might have terrain-influenced trouble delivering clear copy between two points a mile or so apart, unless the terrain obstacles are extreme you'd usually expect two mobile rigs with a proper antenna installation to have little difficulty over that same distance.

Extend the distance to 10 - 30km, 5 - 15 miles, and yes, I absolutely agree that mobile installation(s) with often have issues delivering the sort of crystal clear copy (or *any* copy clear or otherwise) the OP envisions. When travelling through BC's mountainous terrain I find that line of sight and reflected signals change the useful mobile to mobile communications range (VHF/UHF) radically often from turn to turn. That said at other times when a long valley or height provides a cooperative environment I'll be able to reach further.

No doubt we agree the OP's expectations for portable and mobile simplex operation are not going to be met... time to reset expectations.

I believe those bubble pack sales hype may have played a role in the inflated range claims,it seems everyone who has saw that claim and not a veteran radio operator seems to believe it and you can't blame the person who buys it.I believe there should be some actual proof to these claims and stop using the mountain top to mountain top test to sell a 35 mile range claim.

 

[Drachen_Fire]

- You are going to need a repeater.
- You need UHF that can operate on 462-467MHz.
- Avoid Baofeng.
- The CDM750 works just fine for GMRS.

 

[rapidcharger]

There's more to setting up a repeater than just buying a box and flipping the switch.

Without a site and usually a tower, a good set of cans and low loss coax, it will be just as useless as a portable or mobile.

To give you some real life experience, we had a uhf repeater in 15 story building in flat, treeless miami and the repeater-to-portable coverage was only 90% full quieting up to about 7 miles. Which worked for our needs but 7 is less than half of what the OP wants.

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (BREW; Opera Mini/6.0.3/27.2338; U; en) Presto/2.8.119 320X240 LG VN530)

Define "rolling hills".
Do you have a scanner? Have you tried monitoring some of the local bands? Try the 6m, 2m, 1.35m and 70cm Ham bands. (To other commentors here: Yes, the OP asked about getting into Ham radio.) Try the GMRS repeater channels. By closely listening to the users, (and by doing some research as to the repeater locations through your local clubs and/or state/regional coordinating body), you may find out what already works for users in your area.

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (BREW; Opera Mini/6.0.3/27.2338; U; en) Presto/2.8.119 320X240 LG VN530)

Sorry, duplicate post.

 

[dksac2]

You need to find a Ham radio operator in your area. Find out if there are Ham repeaters in range of a 50 watt radio that can be put in your vehicle or taken into your home. Many times a handheld is all you need. I can access repeaters in my rural area with a 50 watt radio or a handheld.

If there is, then Ham radio is the only way to go. You will also find no matter where you go in the USA, there is almost always a repeater that you can access, so talking to others is far easier. Then there is ECHOLINK. You can only get on it with a Ham license. It uses the net to send your signal all over the world.
You can be in contact with anyone with a Computer and the net form anywhere to anywhere, and that's the entire world, not just the USA, and it's free.

The many ways of contact with Ham radio is unreal. It's the way to go. An easy test, $14.00, one time, lifetime charge, no code to learn and you can get good equipment for very reasonable charges.
The test really is easy. I studied one day and aced it. 6 year old kids even pass it as well as the harder upper class license tests, so I know you and your family can do it. There is no age limit. With no code to learn anymore, it's a snap. If you can learn code later, you'll find it great, but nothing says you have to.

Find a Ham operator, most will be more than happy to help you any way they can and get you on the right track so you get what you need at a good price. GMRS is just for short range use, it was never designed for any kind of range. Spend your money on what does work. You'll also find that Ham is about as fun as radio gets. There are so many things you can do, you'll wonder why you waited.
If you have a hard time finding a Ham to help, got to American Radio Relay League | ARRL - The national association for AMATEUR RADIO They will help find you some help.

GMRS is a neat service, but it's designed just for close in communication, not what you are saying that you need. Add all the other things you can do as a Ham and it will be worth any time invested.

My Best, John

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (BREW; Opera Mini/6.0.3/27.2338; U; en) Presto/2.8.119 320X240 LG VN530)

He should look at both Ham radio and the GMRS, and pick the one that is best suited for his needs. If that turns out to be Ham radio, so be it. But, if what he is looking for can be served by the GMRS, then he should go with that. I don't think we should be pushing any one service over another.
I would also suggest MURS, but without repeaters, I doubt 2 watts, even from a 5/8 wave gain antenna on his vehicle, will serve his needs.
I would suggest VHF Lo-band, as the band is known for long distance coverage even over hilly terrain, but other than 6m, I don't think he'd qualify for a license, (I could be wrong...) not being a business owner.
So Ham radio and the GMRS are the two services he should do some listening to, and more research on, in regards to how the various bands cover his local topography.

 

[CaptDan]

Just today I checked the distance I was able to transmit & receive a clean understandable signal 1.51 miles. I measured the distance on Google Earth - the actual driving distance was significantly further, so I was actually surprised when I received a message on a 4 watt HT unit from another 4 watt HT unit.

One unit was on second floor of a condo and the other was in the cab of a pick up truck - no outside antenna. Both HT units had aftermarket 15 inch antennas attached to them.

I am happy with 1.5 miles between 2 walkie talkies as we called them back in the day.

 

[dksac2]

First thing to do is find out if there are any repeaters that cover the area you are in. You'll want to look for GMRS as well as VHF/UHF repeaters. If there are no GMRS, get your Technician license (It's easy with just a little study). With any luck there will be an Amateur or GMRS repeater near by. If not, you can run a good antenna, 50 watt VHF radio and an amplifier too if need be. The Yaesu FT-2900 VHF puts out 75 to 80 watts and the price is right.
None of that will help you if the hills are in the way for too much of the area you cover.
Talk to some Amateurs in your area. They are going to be the one's who know the area the best, not any of us on he forum. In some cases, you may have to drive to a higher spot to get out no matter what. There is always a SAT Phone, but if you can afford one, you have more money than I do.

Good Luck, John