Ham radio vs. Medical Equipment and HOA

[laidback]

I wonder, instead of changing pumps, get a hold of Medtronics the pump manufacturer. I live 22 miles from operational headquaters and know a few managment folk's very helpful. She should have contacted Medtronics and Dr. first.

 

[AK9R]

There's no amplifier visible in the video.

Whoops. There's an Ameritron AL-811H visible later in the video.

 

[michaelamend]

Well all I can say is this I use the exact same insulin pump this lady uses I have been an amateur radio operator ham transmitter operator working on communication towers so on so forth for the last 30 some years of my life I have never had any problem with any transmitter issues affecting my insulin pump ! The only issue I ever had was due to the power source that particular pump was plugged into having under power and power fluctuation problems with the grid it was plugged into I actually have done a report on just this kind of issue and 100% confident through tests ran from distances of feet from transmission antenna that would cause RF high limit exposures with still no effect on said electronic medical device I think she's just in this for attention and looking for some way to get into the limelight amateur radio has been around for a long time there has been many many people operators especially on insulin pumps that have had no problem your day in the limelight is going to come to an end very soon for your fact list faceless

 

[prcguy]

That amp is a problem. I think the amateur should get a full legal limit amp and keep on operating and let the pump mfr figure out the problem. Nobody even knows if the amateur is causing a problem, its just the opinion of another ham with no has not proved anything.

Whoops. There's an Ameritron AL-811H visible later in the video.

 

[AK9R]

...its just the opinion of another ham with no has not proved anything.

But, he's a PE, an IEEE member, and he runs a one-man consultancy, so he must be an expert.

 

[kb4mdz]

But, he's a PE, an IEEE member, and he runs a one-man consultancy, so he must be an expert.

Annnd one of the first rules of consultancy is figure out how to get the customer to come back to you for more consulting fees.
BTW, one definition of a consultant is someone you fly in to your place of business to tell you what time it is on your own watch.

Yes, that this insulin pump is a Part 15 device, must receive any interference received, is problematic for the woman's case. So sad for her. And whether the HOA is thinking of amending rules to allow (gasp!!!) transmitting antennas, that's pretty much a non-sequiter to the idea of the main story. Oh, well, just getcher popcorn & watch the show.

 

[mmckenna]

….but I highly doubt they're going to be using any amateur radio band frequencies for that pump. I can almost guarantee you from the GCM, aka a blood sugar glucose monitor, that I have on my body this story is probably a very inaccurate assumption on the part of the woman with the insulin pump. If anything wireless is used on that pump, it's likely going to be in the Bluetooth range of frequencies or possibly some Wi-Fi frequencies. I can't say with certainty that there's not some 1GHz + spectrum band that amateurs might use that wouldn't be close. But even that I highly, highly doubt.

It wouldn't have to necessarily use the same frequencies for their to be an issue. In a strong enough RF field, like with a beam antenna and an HF amplifier, it's entirely possible that a poorly designed pump could have issues.

Similar to a CB'er running an amplifier and causing issues to someones TV or telephone.

 

[chrismol1]

Looking up that amp model number it's capable of 800 watts. Welp, this changes things

 

[bharvey2]

There are a lot of potential sources of interference but no others are mentioned. The consultant even says that the ham radio operators setup "could" cause a problem, not "is" the problem. While not obligated to do so, it might be in the ham's best interested to offer his station up for field testing with one of the insulin pumps (not connected to the user, of course) as well as RF field tests around the neighborhood. Since he is down now, it wouldn't harm him much and would be a good faith gesture. Nothing may become of the offer and it is likely that his station would be absolved of causing problems but the offer alone may go a long way toward preventing a knee-jerk reaction by the homeowners association.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

That amp is a problem. I think the amateur should get a full legal limit amp and keep on operating and let the pump mfr figure out the problem. Nobody even knows if the amateur is causing a problem, its just the opinion of another ham with no has not proved anything.

True, that wimpy amplifier isn't boosting the insulin rate high enough.

 

[AK9R]

While not obligated to do so, it might be in the ham's best interest...

I am kinda surprised that the ham "rolled over" and isn't fighting the community's order. Most hams I know would put up some resistance or find someone to advise them. Of course, maybe that's happening and we don't know about it yet. But, this guy seems to be fairly passive about it.

BTW, my meager detectives skills have come up with what I think is the ham's callsign: WB9UYK. His QRZ.com page mentions "We are slightly outside of Ocala in a comunity called On Top of the World...We have been warmly greated by many."

 

[bharvey2]

I am kinda surprised that the ham "rolled over" and isn't fighting the community's order. Most hams I know would put up some resistance or find someone to advise them. Of course, maybe that's happening and we don't know about it yet. But, this guy seems to be fairly passive about it.

BTW, my meager detectives skills have come up with what I think is the ham's callsign: WB9UYK. His QRZ.com page mentions "We are slightly outside of Ocala in a comunity called On Top of the World...We have been warmly greated by many."

There's just too much missing from this story to take it at face value. I'd never want to be the guy that "nuked" someone's medical equipment and cause harm but I wouldn't take "might" or "could be" without asking some questions and getting some answers.

Furthermore, If I were wearing one of those pumps I'd be knocking at the manufacturer's door wanting to know more about the pump/RF transmitter relationship if that's the alleged problem. I wouldn't have confidence wearing one anywhere.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

While I don't know the model involved. Look at the recalls for Medtronic. I am sure they would love to blame "hams".

Medtronic Recalls MiniMed Insulin Pumps

Missing or broken retainer ring could cause under or over delivery of insulin. This may cause patient injury or death.

www.fda.gov

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

These are immunity specs for a medtronics device. Curious that the HF immunity does not apply, however, it could be because it has no line power cord for signal to travel.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

There's just too much missing from this story to take it at face value. I'd never want to be the guy that "nuked" someone's medical equipment and cause harm but I wouldn't take "might" or "could be" without asking some questions and getting some answers.

Furthermore, If I were wearing one of those pumps I'd be knocking at the manufacturer's door wanting to know more about the pump/RF transmitter relationship if that's the alleged problem. I wouldn't have confidence wearing one anywhere.

I would shut it down temporarily, and document the shutdown with a witness. But I would refuse to acknowledge any request by anyone other than FCC to do so. So if she continues to have trouble, its not on me and I would have the proof.

 

[prcguy]

Looking at revised FCC RF exposure limits I see for occupational use, 6 minute duration max, the limits in mW/cm2 range from 1 to 5 over the frequency range of 30MHz to 100,000MHz. A 5w VHF or 4W UHF hand held transceiver with antenna about 2" from your head is right at that limit and at VHF would produce about 61.4V/m. The MiniMed pump is rated to 10V/m, waaay less than what a typical hand held radio can produce.

These are immunity specs for a medtronics device. Curious that the HF immunity does not apply, however, it could be because it has no line power cord for signal to travel.
View attachment 108608View attachment 108609
View attachment 108610

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Looking at revised FCC RF exposure limits I see for occupational use, 6 minute duration max, the limits in mW/cm2 range from 1 to 5 over the frequency range of 30MHz to 100,000MHz. A 5w VHF or 4W UHF hand held transceiver with antenna about 2" from your head is right at that limit and at VHF would produce about 61.4V/m. The MiniMed pump is rated to 10V/m, waaay less than what a typical hand held radio can produce.

So if you are a fireman, and use both a VHF radio and this injector, I can see a potential problem. But the ham station is HF and the device has no specs in that range. It is a small battery powered device with a plastic tube. Could the insulin in the tube, couple sufficient HF RF to the device from a human body? But then the counterpoise is what?

 

[alcahuete]

I am kinda surprised that the ham "rolled over" and isn't fighting the community's order. Most hams I know would put up some resistance or find someone to advise them. Of course, maybe that's happening and we don't know about it yet. But, this guy seems to be fairly passive about it.

A lot of people just can't afford a good attorney. Heck, even bad attorneys aren't cheap. You can spend thousands of dollars on an attorney, or just stop using the amp and/or radio.

But stuff like this is exactly where the ARRL should step in with their high powered attorneys. They always talk about their equipment tests, etc. Go out and test this guy's equipment. If everything is in working order, use the League's attorneys to defend him. Unfortunately, this isn't EMCOMM or WINLINK, so they don't care.

 

[zob-slantzero]

Does the women's device have controls that she can access? Why do we jump to the conclusion that the company that made the device is in the wrong. Maybe it is just operator error on her part.

 

[AJAT]

How about this, turn pump on, ham transmits, see if pump malfunctions. Sounds easy to figure out if it is the ham or not.