Hot box detectors

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dawrobel

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I'm trying to pick up the transmissions made by defect detectors to no avail...I am able to get nearly all transmissions from CN/CP RTC and in many cases the trains they are talking to around the area. Do the detectors only broadcast within a small radius of the box? Is there any specific frequency I should be monitoring (I programmed my scanner with all the ones that are listed for both CN and CP). I'm currently located in Hamilton, Ontario on the mountain near the intersection of Garth and Rymal and have an antenna setup about 40 feet high. I was thinking I should get at least the ones off the Grimsby, Oakville, or Hamilton Subdivisions.

Dan
 
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exkalibur

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All CN ones are on the main standby channel which is 161.415. You should be able to pick them up for a considerable distance. There's at least half a dozen or more just in the Halton/Hamilton/Niagara area.

As for CP, you'll find them on whatever the standby channel is for that particular subdivison. The Hamilton Sub (which goes from Niagara Falls to Hamilton) is on 160.815. I don't know the others off the top of my head, but they're online.

If nobody replies before I get home, I'll post'em all for ya.
 

dawrobel

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Cool stuff thanks, I'm gonna stay on 161.415 for a while and see what I can get....I've turned down my squelch all the way, maybe that will solve the problem.
 

dawrobel

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I've had my scanner tuned all this morning and I haven't heard anything at all...not sure why I'm not getting any detectors; I've been able to hear the GO/VIA/CN trains getting their clearances through foremen's limits from as far as nearly Appleby. Any ideas?
 

dawrobel

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OK I finally heard one from mile 33 on the oakville sub, although it was very very faint....what is the transmitting range of these boxes? I would think that would have come in very well.
 

EJB

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OK I finally heard one from mile 33 on the oakville sub, although it was very very faint....what is the transmitting range of these boxes? I would think that would have come in very well.
I live near there on the CN line in Burlington, I think near mile 33 between Aldershot E and Burlington. I never really hear any other CN detectors on this line.
 

dawrobel

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Yea I'm thinking that maybe its my distance from the box (about 9 miles)...although I can swear that at Union a couple times I've heard a detector go off at mile 33, 14, or 36.6, or the one in grimsby over their radios....do they just repeat the broadcast along the rail line?
 

EJB

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I dont know, there are some in the know on here that probably do know...
I find that the actual rail trains I have trouble hearing them from distances on the CN line here but there is constant traffic here with freight Go and VIA.
I often hear CPR RTC on 160.815 mentioning starts & stops along their line thru Hamilton from as far away as Hunter St Go to Bayview and to Dundas, about 10 miles away as the crow flies.

Mike Ex, Wouldyou be so kind as to send me the list or post it to here pls.
 

takeme

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" 14 no alarm" goes off about every 2 minutes in the clarkson - portcredit area (Mississauga) on 161.415
 

exkalibur

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For CP Rail, here's the frequencies that'll let you listen to everything. These include Rail Traffic Controllers, Stand-By frequencies, Maintenence of Way and Utility channels:

You'll notice a bunch of the are listed like 7/8 for the channel. This means both channels receive on the same frequency, it's only the input to the tower that is different. You'll still hear the RTC/Repeater this way.

Chan Freq
7/8 161.535
5/6 161.325
4/9 161.115
19/20 161.505
16/17 161.265
13/14 161.175
11/12/15 160.845
1/3 161.475
88 161.025
85 160.935
82 160.815
76 160.665
 

KCA6YU

King Charles Adam 6 Young Union
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Detectors have a fairly low power signal. Mainly just for the crew to receive.
This is a picture of a Sinclair Excaliber, in use on a Southern Pacific high/wide detector in Southern California.
Thom

excaliber.jpg
 

mrweather

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I regularly hear the CP detector on 161.475 at mile 25.0 on the Galt Subdivision. I'm guessing I'm about 10km away.
 
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The detectors are low power and have low, trackside antennas. From the TAFL (DO49 in my area) the CN ones have an ERP of only 5.5 Watts. and an antenna height of only 3 (metres) or 10 feet. They use a no gain ground plane antenna which looks like a Sinclair SRL 217 to me. The CP ones are listed as having an ERP of 9.0 watts, with an antenna height of also 3 metres, same as the CN detectors, but they use a higher gain antenna, which looks like a colinear, with no radials and typically 3 to 4.5 dBd gain, but I don't recognize the specific model or manufacturer. I'd post photo's of each, if I could figure out how!

Being near Cornwall, I can hear the CN Detector at Mile 67 (Regis) on the Kingston sub loud and clear. on 161.415 MHz., CN Ch. 1. The one at Mile 54 (Lancaster) is weak, even with a good antenna here. I can't hear the one at Mile 80 (Ingleside) at all from home.

If you tell me which company and subdivision you are interested in, I can look up the locations (mileage) of the detectors on that sub in my 2007 edition of the Canadian Trackside Guide. That and the TAFL are your best guide. But be aware that the lat/long in the TAFL listings can be wrong. Whether this is deliberate obfuscation in an attempt to "hide" the detector's location, or honest errors, I can't say. But they are easy enough to find physically once you know what mile they are at. They are almost all near level crossings, for easy access by maintenance crews. I've also noticed they are usually a level crossing or two from a railway comm site. Presumably they are received and recorded by the RTC. With every level crossing being marked as to what mileage it is at, it's fairly straightforward to determine where you are, railway mileage wise.

Speaking of comm sites, their antennas are much higher gain (4 bay exposed dipole arrays like a Sinclair 210C4, or yagis pointed up and down the right-of way) and much higher physically plus higher in power. Again refer to the TAFL file for your area. This explains why you are hearing the RTC comms from much further away. Even the mobiles (trains and MoW trucks) are running much higher power than the detectors.

Hope this helps. If I can assist with my Canadian Trackside Guide listings, let me know.
 

dawrobel

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I regularly hear the CP detector on 161.475 at mile 25.0 on the Galt Subdivision. I'm guessing I'm about 10km away.

I'm guessing my issue is that maybe I'm too far past the escarpment (I've never heard anything other than the one at Mile 33 although it was very very faint).
 

homerjay

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dawrobel:

With your current location you should be able to hear the CP detector at mile 71.2 on the CP hamilton sub. Freq 160.815; on that note from the upper Wellington and Queensdale area I was able to hear the one at mile 44.9 on that same subdivision and frequency. However it was very weak as it is in the Vinemount on the old Stoney Creek mountain

Also from your location you may hear the detectors at mile 33 on the CN Oakville sub. You will catch them on freq 161.415.

As for the transmitting power it has been my experience that CP Rail has the most powerful transmitter capable of hitting up to 50-60 clicks on a good day. The CN Rail defect detectors are less powerful with maybe hitting 15-20 on a good day. However on that the ones at mile 33 are quite strong because I can hear them all the way down here in Beamsville some days.

Feel free to PM me with any other questions you may have
 

dawrobel

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Thanks for the posts, I will try the frequencies....I did find one problem with my setup, the combiner I was using on my antennas only is rated to work in the range 470-862 Mhz effectively I would think cutting the rest of the frequencies outside that range; I will have to replace it with something with a greater frequency range (maybe thats why I'm not hearing any detectors - no CP and just barely barely making out the one mile 33)...anyway, I'll hopefully report back tomorrow night if I make any progress; thanks again for everyones help !

Dan
 

exkalibur

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That is exactly your problem.

Why are you using a combiner? Just use T-connectors - they'll generally work fine.
 

dawrobel

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Toronto
That is exactly your problem.

Why are you using a combiner? Just use T-connectors - they'll generally work fine.

When I first setup the antennas we were using them just for tv reception and I just used what came with it, it didn't cross my mind until I went up a few days ago to adjust it that I saw the frequency range; by T-Connectors, do you mean splitter type boxes (feeding both antennas to the ins as before and out to the scanner)?
 
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