markbart
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Don't use credit or debit cards.
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I Am Having Second Thought About My Decision to Buy a PSR-600 ** Caution Rant Follows
- Thread starter K9WG
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Short answer: no.
The three Japanese manufacturers that come to mind are Icom, GRE and Uniden.
A decade ago, Uniden did not publish the control protocol for their radios. Authors of vintage programs like PC895 and BC245Int were on their own. An effort was made to reverse engineer and publish the command set. At some point, Uniden decided to publish their protocols in PDF form. As a consequence, Uniden owners enjoy the largest number of paid, free and open source apps.
Icom does not publish their command specs (for their non-CI/V models). As far as I know, all third party software relies on efforts of hobbyists to reverse engineer and publish the Icom command sets. The number of third party apps is very small.
GRE chose a very controlled approach in sharing PC-I/F information. Anyone who has published commercial grade scanner software would be considered (but not automatically approved). Authors receive the information under NDA. Open source apps aren't considered. For example, ID Tracker II was a free open source (and very Uniden friendly) program. ID Tracker III supports GRE models at the expense of becoming closed source (may be the very first freeware approved by GRE).
GRE did choose to publish the CC dump feature of the PRO-96/2096. GRE enjoyed a four year lead over competition in this very narrow third party software category. They also chose to release the control and CC dump portions of the protocols for the 500/600 in the owner's manual. Programming remains under NDA.
I've included Uniden and Icom to show that GRE falls more or less in the middle of the road for publishing computer protocol information. Icom should be thoroughly smacked around for not being more open. Right now is not a good time to approach GRE for access to the programming specs. Japan has more urgent issues at hand.
Disclaimer: I am not under any contractual agreement with any of these companies.
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K9WG
Member
What Icom receivers are not CI/V controlled?
When I programmed my control program for my IC-718 I had no problem in getting the protocol (admittedly it is CI/V controlled).
When I programmed my control program for my IC-718 I had no problem in getting the protocol (admittedly it is CI/V controlled).
So this decision is being made in Japan and not GRE America?
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It almost seems as if GRE has become chummy with the three or so existing guys writing the for-profit software, and is helping to protect those individuals' interests by refusing to release the details to anyone who wants to write freeware. I'm sure that viewpoint would be disputed by those who hold an interest in the matter, but it's really tough to draw any other logical conclusion.
Uniden, on the other hand, clearly doesn't discriminate one way or the other with regards to for-profit vs non-profit software. Kudos to them, and FreeSCAN is a great example of a solid freeware product that couldn't have been written otherwise.
Nothing wrong with having free software available. If the for-profit guys feel threatened, then write better software to keep the level of competition up, simple as that.
Uniden, on the other hand, clearly doesn't discriminate one way or the other with regards to for-profit vs non-profit software. Kudos to them, and FreeSCAN is a great example of a solid freeware product that couldn't have been written otherwise.
Nothing wrong with having free software available. If the for-profit guys feel threatened, then write better software to keep the level of competition up, simple as that.
smason
Member
I think there's room for both freeware and paid for software.
Freescan is a great program, but I happily purchased Proscan, because it does more things that I want, better. I don't think any of the paid for apps are priced too high, they're all pretty reasonable IMHO.
I'm not a programmer (wish I was sometimes) and while I agree that GRE should publish the protocols, I don't miss free software for my 106 and 600, I quite like WIn500, and think it's quite reasonably priced.
I'm a big fan of remote scanning, so for both platforms, I'd like to see more mobile device clients, particularly for the iPhone.
'course if they keep releasing these new "scanners for dummies" software won't be an issue.
Freescan is a great program, but I happily purchased Proscan, because it does more things that I want, better. I don't think any of the paid for apps are priced too high, they're all pretty reasonable IMHO.
I'm not a programmer (wish I was sometimes) and while I agree that GRE should publish the protocols, I don't miss free software for my 106 and 600, I quite like WIn500, and think it's quite reasonably priced.
I'm a big fan of remote scanning, so for both platforms, I'd like to see more mobile device clients, particularly for the iPhone.
'course if they keep releasing these new "scanners for dummies" software won't be an issue.
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dugan
Member
I can appreciate that, but if you have other people that are interested and you have the ability, then you have an opportunity to make some money.
I haven't had steady employment for fifteen years and I am not independently wealthy, but I have enjoyed several expensive hobbies in spite of that fact. My first digital camera in 1998 was $1700 and I started shooting in earnest right away. I won some local photo contests and got a bit of a reputation for shooting agriculture, food and produce. A lot is grown where I live. Anyway a local company asked if I would shoot some of their products. I did it in my spare time (I have lots of that) and made enough money to pay for my camera, printer and my hobby for some time. They even brought the products (pies and cakes) to me. My biggest compliment came when a national brand asked the local company who was their “food stylist”. I had no idea I was a food stylist already.
I got pretty good at photo restoration while doing my own old photo’s, which lead me to another opportunity. I get paid well enough and make people very happy with the results. That was very satisfying.
I have approached local internet service providers about writing better “how-to’s” for services they offer and have been paid well for that. I was doing it anyway for some of their customers who had come to me in frustration.
People bring be dead hard drives and I recover data for them. I offer my services as a last resort and more often than not I succeed. It’s fun and with a few inexpensive tools, time and ingenuity it is something you can do at home. I learned some of those tricks while recovering my own data and most people can’t even consider the rates the pros charge.
I have found that my hobbies have lead to all sorts of unexpected income.
Dugan
K9WG
Member
OK, I agree that the above do not have the control protocol available, but than again they are PC/software based receivers and their manuals do not say they will provide the protocol.
Every time I have had dealings with Icom support they have been more then helpful (even to letting me know the warranty would still be good when I modified my IC-718 for MARS).
dugan
Member
Thread: I Am Having Second Thought About My Decision to Buy a PSR-600 ** Caution Rant
Most of these software writers are just regular guys. Email them, send them a cheque and when it clears I am sure they will send you the registration code. I've trusted book sellers to send me a rare book after clearing a chque of mine and I have yet to be burned.
Dugan
Most of these software writers are just regular guys. Email them, send them a cheque and when it clears I am sure they will send you the registration code. I've trusted book sellers to send me a rare book after clearing a chque of mine and I have yet to be burned.
Dugan
markbart
Member
No Checks either.
Mark
Mark
rdale
Completely Banned for the Greater Good
How is that related to GRE not releasing the protocol to the OP?
dugan
Member
It has nothing to do with it. Sorry we digressed.
Back to the topic:
If they say they will provide it, then they should. But if they don't, the question remains, how do you get them to provide it?
Dugan
Back to the topic:
If they say they will provide it, then they should. But if they don't, the question remains, how do you get them to provide it?
Dugan
michaelsbus
Member
Maybe I'm missing somethin.....g
The manual they have online at gre's website has the data formats for the control functionality as well as the ccdump. What more do you need?
For remote control you can check the radio status, read what is on the display at any time, and send a keystroke to the unit just like pressing a button on the front of the radio.
The CCDump mode provides data stream of decoded cc info. Can easily be dumped into a log file.
Perhaps they believe that you wish to develop FIRMWARE to install in the radio. That would certainly get them miffed....
The manual they have online at gre's website has the data formats for the control functionality as well as the ccdump. What more do you need?
For remote control you can check the radio status, read what is on the display at any time, and send a keystroke to the unit just like pressing a button on the front of the radio.
The CCDump mode provides data stream of decoded cc info. Can easily be dumped into a log file.
Perhaps they believe that you wish to develop FIRMWARE to install in the radio. That would certainly get them miffed....
The OP has acknowledged as much. He's asking for the programming protocol.
K9WG
Member
michaelsbus
From the PSR-600 manual
From the PSR-600 manual
michaelsbus
Member
Yeah, I saw that too...
They probably decided that they didn't want people knowing the memory dump protocols cause that would open the door to people modding the firmware, or playing around with other settings that could muck things up. This leads to.........
LICENSING OF CONTENT
which is why the freeware has limited or no support.What could be done, however, is if another 600 could be borrowed or rented, use a Y adapter between the two radios and the computer to capture the data passing between the radios. (Both directions should be captured, there's likely a "handshake" response from the destination radio before the dump starts.) Then analysing the dump data versus the known programming of the radio should reveal the format.
Otherwise, you may need to discuss the licensing costs. Then when you write your program, sell it to the masses to offset the costs.
In most cases, the manuals are horrible. Written ahead of time, rarely updated or corrected, missing information.... Rather get my hands on a piece of equipment and play with it a little to see what it really can do...
They probably decided that they didn't want people knowing the memory dump protocols cause that would open the door to people modding the firmware, or playing around with other settings that could muck things up. This leads to.........
LICENSING OF CONTENT
which is why the freeware has limited or no support.What could be done, however, is if another 600 could be borrowed or rented, use a Y adapter between the two radios and the computer to capture the data passing between the radios. (Both directions should be captured, there's likely a "handshake" response from the destination radio before the dump starts.) Then analysing the dump data versus the known programming of the radio should reveal the format.
Otherwise, you may need to discuss the licensing costs. Then when you write your program, sell it to the masses to offset the costs.
In most cases, the manuals are horrible. Written ahead of time, rarely updated or corrected, missing information.... Rather get my hands on a piece of equipment and play with it a little to see what it really can do...
K9WG
Member
michaelsbus
All you have to do is look at the .bin files with a HEX editor to see the data transferred/stored. Also I am pretty sure that the memory/clone protocol doesn't access the firmware.
All you have to do is look at the .bin files with a HEX editor to see the data transferred/stored. Also I am pretty sure that the memory/clone protocol doesn't access the firmware.
michaelsbus
Member
Provided, of course, that you have a .bin file on your computer to examine. The problem would be the actual transfer process. I saw in the manual that the source radio initiates the entire transfer process. That would indicate that the recieving radio would probably acknowledge the request before the actual transfer occurs. This would be the protocols needed for pc programming. Otherwise, the only way to program with a pc would be to send keystrokes with the control protocols. Would take longer.
dugan
Member
Why bother with all this? The existing software that has been developed is very reasonably priced and does everything I need it to. I use Win500 and it gives me easy access to everything I want. I use the remote client all the time on my network and I record an log anything I choose to. I forget what I paid, but it wasn't much considering how often I run it.
Dugan
Dugan
K9WG
Member
Three reasons
1. While the existing software is good it does not do everything I want it to do.
2. I would like to develop something different and maybe better then available now. Offering it free would just be a benefit of my developing it for my use.
3. The manual says they would supply the protocol. This was part of the reason I went with GRE.
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