Icom Dstar will not work on analog repeater

[NeFire242]

Is there a common NAC code used with ham repeaters then for people traveling into areas where one is available?

 

[fineshot1]

Is there a common NAC code used with ham repeaters then for people traveling into areas where one is available?

I am not sure about ham repeaters but the programming software default is 293 and that is used by most LEA's in my area as the interop default NAC code....

 

[Raccon]

P25 is a "World Standard", unlike TETRA.
Tetra uses proprietary technology licensed only for use in TETRA in certain regions of the world. All P25 technology is open for use in P25 equipment and systems worldwide.

Since TETRA is a standard then why would it be allowed to use anything but TETRA? Wouldn't that conflict with the idea of a standard? And naturally vendors want to protect their investments, so if they gave out the technologies for others to use it doesn't seem like a wise business decision to me.

BTW: if there is an issue regarding the licensing of TETRA in certain regions it seems to be one manfacturer only that is "the problem".

Here is a related article that touches on the issues: Coming to America: TETRA-one way or another

 

[N_Jay]

Since TETRA is a standard then why would it be allowed to use anything but TETRA? Wouldn't that conflict with the idea of a standard? And naturally vendors want to protect their investments, so if they gave out the technologies for others to use it doesn't seem like a wise business decision to me.

BTW: if there is an issue regarding the licensing of TETRA in certain regions it seems to be one manfacturer only that is "the problem".

Here is a related article that touches on the issues: Coming to America: TETRA-one way or another

Most standards rely on technology developed by member companies.
Some of that technology is developed just for the standard and other technology may already be in use and is provided to the standard.
"Depending on the organization of the standard and the standards body it functions under, there are different requirements for the use of proprietary technology within the standard.

TETRA is a collection of technologies, some of which were developed prior to being implemented in TETRA. Those proprietary technologies carry the restrictions attached to the licensing terms the TETRA organization accepted.

It is an interesting article, however a bit dated. (circa 2001)

"adoption of TETRA as a TIA standard" - five years later and has not started

"Nokia is studying the market requirements and preparing to sell land-mobile radio systems in the United States and Canada." - Nokia is out of the Land-Mobile business

"Simoco, a UK-based manufacturer and successor to Philips Radio Communications Systems, has a global TETRA marketing strategy." - Simoco has entered the P25 market

"The TIA project description suggests that the P25 four-slot TDMA specification may be available by the end of 2001. A Motorola representative estimated the process might take two to four years, however." - Who guessed right and who guessed wrong?

 

[Thunderbolt]

Gill - I dont beleive the D-Star repeaters are configurable to both modes. When you set up and configure them for service they must be one or the other. The only way someone could be calling you via analog if the repeater is setup for digital is there must be a second repeater setup for analog. I am sure if I goofed on that one someone will jump in and correct me but the way I read the technicle info on the configurations I think that is correct.

I asked a friend of mine who is a Ham in Tokyo, and she said that the club she belongs to now has two repeaters in the 1.2 GHz band. One is for D-Star, while the other is the older analog unit. Apparently, D-Star will not work with the older repeater, so the club purchased a new repeater and placed it on an office building in Shinjuku. This allows club members to use either repeater and they are linked together via microwave relay.

From what she was told by her brother two years ago, who works for Alinco, they have plans to come out with a radio that will support both D-Star and analog modes with the press of button. Knowing the Japanese Amateur Radio market, they probably have several radios out now that will support this new technology.

73's

Ron

 

[mam1081]

Since no one on here seems to know...

The new Icom D-Star repeaters ( the ID-RP2000V for VHF and ID-RP4000V for UHF) that are now available DO NOT support analog. They require a special controller ( ID-RP2C ) and duplexer to make a proper D-star repeater.

The Icom D-star mobile radios / handheld radios do support analog and/or digital modes.

Perhaps other vendors will come out with a "mixed-mode" repeater for D-star.

 

[Raccon]

"adoption of TETRA as a TIA standard" - five years later and has not started

Not the fault of the TETRA standard though.

"Nokia is studying the market requirements and preparing to sell land-mobile radio systems in the United States and Canada." - Nokia is out of the Land-Mobile business

The business group belongs to EADS now and they continue to market TETRA. Not sure what's their strategy regarding North America, but if they market were to open I am sure they would be interested.

"Simoco, a UK-based manufacturer and successor to Philips Radio Communications Systems, has a global TETRA marketing strategy." - Simoco has entered the P25 market

Not mutually excluse is it? - Simoco (now Artevea Digital) still deals with TETRA.

"The TIA project description suggests that the P25 four-slot TDMA specification may be available by the end of 2001. A Motorola representative estimated the process might take two to four years, however." - Who guessed right and who guessed wrong?

Well, if I were to guess I would say that Motorola is blocking the North American market from TETRA to protect their own interests.

 

[N_Jay]

Not the fault of the TETRA standard though.

Didn't say it was, but does indicate that there is not enough interest by people who think it should be a standard here to push teh issue.

The business group belongs to EADS now and they continue to market TETRA. Not sure what's their strategy regarding North America, but if they market were to open I am sure they would be interested.

EADS is begining to market P25 in the US (and they also have TETRA-POL, which is NOT related to TETRA)

Not mutually excluse is it? - Simoco (now Artevea Digital) still deals with TETRA.

Ddn't say it was,

Well, if I were to guess I would say that Motorola is blocking the North American market from TETRA to protect their own interests.

Maybe, maybe not, but they are a very large TETRA supplier, so maybe they have other valid reasons?

 

[bozoface]

DSTAR IS not worth it

DSTAR is not worth changing over to. Hell you can't use it for email or look at something on EBAY because it violates part 97 for god sake.

 

[HabboX]

I use it for email. Where in Part 97 is it a violation to look at something on EBAY?

 

[N_Jay]

I use it for email. Where in Part 97 is it a violation to look at something on EBAY?

ebay is shopping, shopping is "commercial", commercial use is illegal.

 

[digitaljim6]

I must be reading a different Part 97 than you, N_Jay.

If you're a ham and are looking for specs or availability of ham-related items (aka shopping), that seems to be perfectly within 97.113(a)(3) unless you are doing it regularly as an ongoing thing (like as a business). Purchasing the equipment via the radio might even be allowed, provided it complies with all paragraphs of 97.113.

Since the "business" rules in Part 97 were relaxed in 1993, hams have been able to use their ham stations to order pizza for themselves or conduct most other personal business communications for themselves as long as they don't have a pecuniary interest in them.

ebay is shopping, shopping is "commercial", commercial use is illegal.

 

[N_Jay]

I must be reading a different Part 97 than you, N_Jay.

If you're a ham and are looking for specs or availability of ham-related items (aka shopping), that seems to be perfectly within 97.113(a)(3) unless you are doing it regularly as an ongoing thing (like as a business). Purchasing the equipment via the radio might even be allowed, provided it complies with all paragraphs of 97.113.

Since the "business" rules in Part 97 were relaxed in 1993, hams have been able to use their ham stations to order pizza for themselves or conduct most other personal business communications for themselves as long as they don't have a pecuniary interest in them.

Well I guess if you ONLY look for am gear you are OK, but I would think you are on the "slippery slope".:twisted:

 

[digitaljim6]

Not at all, at least according to the FCC, the ARRL, W3BE in World Radio Magazine, etc., etc., etc. Of course, it's up to each individual licensee to operate as they see fit within the rules so if you feel it doesn't comply, don't do it.

Just trying to be accurate.

Well I guess if you ONLY look for am gear you are OK, but I would think you are on the "slippery slope".:twisted:

 

[N_Jay]

Not at all, at least according to the FCC, the ARRL, W3BE in World Radio Magazine, etc., etc., etc. Of course, it's up to each individual licensee to operate as they see fit within the rules so if you feel it doesn't comply, don't do it.

Just trying to be accurate.

That is the definition of "Slippery Slope".

Lots of Hams worry about this because commercial use of the ham bands would be a good reason for the FCC to weaken their support for maintaining them.

 

[digitaljim6]

Sorry for the length, but it's needed.

That's assuming that using ham radio for personal business (without pecuniary interest) is "commercial" use. 97.113 doesn't seem to say that it is (see also PR Docket 92-136 in 1993 and MO&O 94-111).

The relaxation of the rules in 1993 was dramatic. Prior to the change, a ham station could not be legally used to help a civic organization with events like parades, marathons or bike races. That was considered supporting the organization's business activities. Such is no longer the case and it was the impetus for the rule change.

Since the change, you can't operate for hire or make money for yourself or your employer through operating an amateur station (with a couple of specific exceptions for teachers and club station operators - see 97.113(c) and (d)), but just about anything else is specifically allowed. From the FCC web page link shown below:

"Q: What are the standards that I should use when deciding whether or not my station should transmit a certain type of communications?

Section 97.113 provides four general standards for you to observe. In summary, any amateur-operator-to-amateur-operator communication is permitted, unless it is:
Specifically prohibited, or
Transmitted for compensation, or
Done for the pecuniary benefit of the station control operator, or
Done for the pecuniary benefit of the station control operator's employer. "


The word "business" doesn't appear anywhere in Part 97. The word "commercial" appears only twice in Part 97: in 97.1(a) and 97.505(a)(7). 97.505(a)(7) has a reference to "commercial radiotelegraph operator license" so that leaves 97.1(a):

"§ 97.1 Basis and purpose.
The rules and regulations in this part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:
(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications".

In the various Parts of Title 47 CFR, the Commission seems to follow the philosophy that a "commercial" radio service is one in which licensees offer the use of their licenses, frequencies and/or radio systems for hire - like cellular or paging (common carriers), two-way trunked radio system providers (private carriers), etc. "Commercial" radio services are addressed in Parts like 20, 22, and 24. Business/industrial stations licensed under Part 90 are used for business activities but they are not "commercial" because they are not used for hire.

This FCC web page has more on operating an amateur radio station:

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=about_1&id=amateur

Bottom line? Using the now-famous pizza scenario (some related FCC documents actually mention ordering food), you can order pizza for yourself using your ham station unless you own the pizza parlor or work there or you are paid to use your ham station to place the order.

Seems that the FCC flattened the slope out with a cliff at the end. According to the FCC Enforcement Bureau info, K1MAN jumped off.

That is the definition of "Slippery Slope".

Lots of Hams worry about this because commercial use of the ham bands would be a good reason for the FCC to weaken their support for maintaining them.

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

How Is Making Our Analog Radios Obsolete Progress. Why Do We Have To Replace Our Equipment. Part Of Ham Radio Is Being ABLE To Use Hand Me Down Equipment. Dstar Will Prevent Us From Doing So. Why Do We Have To Give That Up?

 

[N_Jay]

How Is Making Our Analog Radios Obsolete Progress. Why Do We Have To Replace Our Equipment. Part Of Ham Radio Is Being ABLE To Use Hand Me Down Equipment. Dstar Will Prevent Us From Doing So. Why Do We Have To Give That Up?

What makes you think that the existence of D-Star will somehow obsolete all other equipment?:roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

No you can not open an analog repeater to make dstar work. The noise will sound like crap!!!

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

why would you punch your computer???