Kenwood & EF Johnson - FPP Mobile Radios

[train_radio_guy]

I apologize if this subject has been covered in past threads, but a quick search of this Forum did not reveal much, in-terms of relevant results.

Is there a list of Kenwood or EF Johnson Radios, that were/are FPP (Front Panel Programmable) or Field Programmable? My focus is primarily on mobile radios, but handhelds/portables would also be interesting to note as well. I'm familiar with the Kenwood TK-705D/805D Series of mobiles, but I wasn't sure if any mobiles, which were manufactured after them retained the FPP functionality.

I know of other manufacturers that supported FPP in some flavor like Bendix-King, Regency/Wilson/Relm, etc...

 

[mmckenna]

Kenwood NX-5000 line, KWD-5001FP option, $300.00 list
Kenwood NX-3000 line, KWD-3001FP option, $150.00 list

No word on the NX-1000 line yet, as it hasn't been officially released.
But what you need to be concerned about is the Wide/Narrow. If you want this for ham radio use on UHF, you need to make sure you get the Wideband license. VHF radios will do wide band below 150MHz.

 

[kd4efm]

I have a supply of FPP licenses for the nx line.

 

[train_radio_guy]

Kenwood NX-5000 line, KWD-5001FP option, $300.00 list
Kenwood NX-3000 line, KWD-3001FP option, $150.00 list

No word on the NX-1000 line yet, as it hasn't been officially released.
But what you need to be concerned about is the Wide/Narrow. If you want this for ham radio use on UHF, you need to make sure you get the Wideband license. VHF radios will do wide band below 150MHz.

I've been out of the radio scene for awhile. Consequently, I don't know a great deal about the Kenwood NX Series of Radios. I'm guessing FPP is a flashable feature. Are the radios exclusively flashed for narrow or wide-band radio-wide operation, or can this be set on a per-channel basis?

 

[tweiss3]

Silly, but related question. NX5000, analog channel programmed on the computer with wideband. If I used FPP to change DCS/CTCSS, would it revert to narrow band?

 

[mmckenna]

I've been out of the radio scene for awhile. Consequently, I don't know a great deal about the Kenwood NX Series of Radios. I'm guessing FPP is a flashable feature.

It is a "licensed" feature. You buy the feature license and activate it in the radio.

Are the radios exclusively flashed for narrow or wide-band radio-wide operation, or can this be set on a per-channel basis?

By FCC requirement, they have to do narrow band on the LMR frequencies. There are a (very) few exceptions to this. Kenwood, as well as other manufacturers, have ways to allow wide band operation where necessary. Usually requires signing something saying you understand the FCC rules and requirement for narrowband.
The setting can be done on a per channel basis if you have the ability to do it, or the frequency is in part of the band where wideband is allowed.

 

[mmckenna]

Silly, but related question. NX5000, analog channel programmed on the computer with wideband. If I used FPP to change DCS/CTCSS, would it revert to narrow band?

Don't know. I don't use FPP on any of my NX-5000's. That sounds like an Evans sort of question. I suspect that since the FPP is technically only a "federal" feature set, that it will stick where you put it. In other words, the dude poking at the radio is expected to know the rules and do things correctly. If everyone was following FCC rules, FPP wouldn't be available as widely as it is.

 

[train_radio_guy]

It is a "licensed" feature. You buy the feature license and activate it in the radio.



By FCC requirement, they have to do narrow band on the LMR frequencies. There are a (very) few exceptions to this. Kenwood, as well as other manufacturers, have ways to allow wide band operation where necessary. Usually requires signing something saying you understand the FCC rules and requirement for narrowband.
The setting can be done on a per channel basis if you have the ability to do it, or the frequency is in part of the band where wideband is allowed.

I'm guessing the "licensed" feature is programmed into the radio via computer, through the RSS/CPS, once it's bought & paid for. Do any of these licensed features have a time factor, or are they good for the life of the radio? The methodology is probably comparable to non-subscription-based software licenses from Microsoft, where it stays with the machine, on which it was originally installed.

Well, I suppose it's time to read-up on the Kenwood NX Radio Series, and see what features I'm going to be looking for in a mobile radio. I have a number of older analog mobiles, from my days of working in the LMR industry, but that was well over +21-years ago. I was sort of looking for an all-in-one radio, that's quality-built (i.e. reliable), reasonably priced, remain legal, and keep things simple. Most of my commercial gear pre-dates the new narrow-band format, and consequently not applicable to normal usage anymore. Time to research things a little deeper.

 

[mmckenna]

KPT-300LMC is the "license management software".
It links to Kenwood and it assigns the feature license to a specific radio.
Once you buy it, it's yours. It doesn't expire. It can be removed from one radio and assigned to another.
But it can be hacked, and the programming software is also assigned to one computer. It's not like the old days where you could put it on as many computers as you wanted.

You probably want to look at the NX-5000 line. It'll do analog plus any two digital modes: P25, NXDN or DMR.
NXDN is included. If you want P25 or DMR, you license those features.
They are feature rich radios, and there's a lot of options.

 

[train_radio_guy]

KPT-300LMC is the "license management software".
It links to Kenwood and it assigns the feature license to a specific radio.
Once you buy it, it's yours. It doesn't expire. It can be removed from one radio and assigned to another.
But it can be hacked, and the programming software is also assigned to one computer. It's not like the old days where you could put it on as many computers as you wanted.

You probably want to look at the NX-5000 line. It'll do analog plus any two digital modes: P25, NXDN or DMR.
NXDN is included. If you want P25 or DMR, you license those features.
They are feature rich radios, and there's a lot of options.

I briefly Googled it, and I see mention of both the License Management Client & License Key, with separate prices. I suspect this could get expensive quickly.

 

[mmckenna]

I suspect this could get expensive quickly.

Depends on what your expectations are.
KPG-300LMC is included with the programming software. You'll need the programming software anyway.
The basic radio (for what it is and the capabilities it holds) is reasonably priced.
Adding -just- the features you actually need, can save you money compared to other manufacturers.

But there are other options. Motorola, Harris, Icom, all make good radios.

I'm using NX-5900's, NX-5700's NX-3300's, NX-3400's, and NX-1300's at work. For what we need, they are good radios and the price is right. I can have a common platform with just the features the users need. Nice part is I can add features as needed. I'm not stuck buying a new radio each time.

If you want a fully kitted out radio, yeah, it can get expensive, but that's the same for all reputable manufacturers. I've placed an order for some multiband Harris XL-200 portables and mobiles, and those are expensive, yet less expensive than Motorola.

 

[train_radio_guy]

Well, I know things have changed, and the price on everything has gone through the roof in many regards.

When I was younger, after researching things, I tried to buy quality radios, knowing full well, that prices weren't going to be cheap. Budgeting things & saving was my strategy. I think one radio (back in the early 1990's) ran around $1200-1500, and it took awhile to save for it. In the end, it performed as it was advertised, and served its intended purpose for many years, without any problems. I had a mixed bag of radios then... Motorola, Kenwood, Icom, Bendix-King - all commercial radios. They had their positive & negative points respectively. The biggest issue back them was the space & power requirements. Astron 50-70 amp power supplies served me well. The radio room evolved over the years.

These days, as I try to return to the radio scene, I would like to stay with a quality product, but space is limited, so a standardized platform sounds like the best approach. With so many users migrating over to digital formats, does the Kenwood NX-5000 Series seem to cover the more common digital formats?

 

[mmckenna]

With so many users migrating over to digital formats, does the Kenwood NX-5000 Series seem to cover the more common digital formats?

You should really look and see what is used in your location.
But, essentially, you'll run into P25, DMR, NXDN or Analog.
There are a few TETRA systems in the country, but those are pretty rare and not easy to monitor without the right gear. Some other odd/out dated systems, but you have to pick your battle.

The NX-5000 line will do analog out of the box and NXDN conventional.
You can add DMR
You can add P25, both phase 1 and 2.
You can add NXDN trunking.
But the radio will only run 2 digital modes at a time.
It won't do non-affiliate scan.
NXDN/NexEdge trunking isn't something you can monitor with this radio in most cases.
So, figure out what you want to listen to, and what you are licensed to transmit on, and choose accordingly.

Or, wait a few months. Tait is supposed to be releasing a multiband radio that is rumored to have P25 and DMR, but don't put money on that until it's released.
I suspect we'll see others join the fray. Motorola has stuck hard to P25 -or- DMR for their gear, no mixing. The others are seeing that Kenwood has a good idea and are joining in on that.

 

[train_radio_guy]

Is the "non-affiliate scan" mostly associated with P25 Systems? I've read a few articles on the various Digital Mod Schemes in use today, but much of it is new to me.

I was predominantly an analog guy, mostly conventional systems (VHF/UHF), with some early G.E. (USA 1 & 2) Trunking, as well as some EF Johnson LTR Trunking. Other than a handful of early Motorola Sabers with encryption, I was out of the 2-way business, before things started migrating toward the various digital mod formats.

I'm trying to brush-up, but I've got a couple of decades to cover.

 

[mmckenna]

Is the "non-affiliate scan" mostly associated with P25 Systems? I've read a few articles on the various Digital Mod Schemes in use today, but much of it is new to me.

P25 trunking as well as some of the older P16 variants.

I was predominantly an analog guy, mostly conventional systems (VHF/UHF), with some early G.E. (USA 1 & 2) Trunking, as well as some EF Johnson LTR Trunking. Other than a handful of early Motorola Sabers with encryption, I was out of the 2-way business, before things started migrating toward the various digital mod formats.

You really need to decide what you want to do with said radio. There's a lot of options, and "one with everything" is going to be super expensive. If you are planning on using it for ham radio, you can save a lot of money and just get a basic ham grade radio that'll do analog and DMR.
If you want to use this in the LMR world, you need to figure out which digital mode you need and plan accordingly. Again, "one with everything" is going to be super expensive. Picking a band or two and a digital mode + Analog is going to be cheaper.

I'm trying to brush-up, but I've got a couple of decades to cover.

Well, as I'm sure you know, as soon as you learn it all, someone comes along and changes the rules.

 

[train_radio_guy]

I'm going to have to work on my Pro/Con List, and see which way I want to go. I have both business & hobby needs to address. A VHF & a UHF mobile radio would probably cover my needs, but I can see where the costs start mounting very quickly. Looks like I've got some home work to do.

 

[mmckenna]

I'm going to have to work on my Pro/Con List, and see which way I want to go. I have both business & hobby needs to address. A VHF & a UHF mobile radio would probably cover my needs, but I can see where the costs start mounting very quickly. Looks like I've got some home work to do.

Scanners are nice if you want to listen.
Then just get a separate VHF and UHF radio that meets your needs.

But I'm a guy that still runs a Motorola CDM-1550 in his personal truck. Someday I'll upgrade, but analog fits my needs right now.
Work, however, is a different story.

 

[train_radio_guy]

There was a time, when I relied upon a scanner for my monitoring interests. In the not so distance past it was a Realistic Pro-2006. It was a decent quality receiver, for the range of frequencies it covered, but it was never quite as sensitive as the monoband radios. At the time, I was interesting in finding low-power transmissions, so sensitivity & selectivity were both very important. Going back even further, my first VHF-Lo/Hi receiver was a tunable unit from Allied, but that's a story for another day.

In my younger years, I had this crazy notion, that I was going to have a dedicated radio for every band. I even looked into a solution through the likes of Harris or Wulfsberg, since they did make rather wide-banded, multipurpose radios for the military & aviation. After seeing the costs, I came to the realization that my ambitions were unrealistic for my budget. Sacrifices were made, & I focused on commercial mobile radios, as they were retired from fleet operation, and priced at a level that I could afford. At the time, VHF-Low, VHF-High, & UHF were my target bands. That eventually included some VHF-Mid gear from the UK.

I strove to keep the hobby interests separate from the commercial/business side of things. A boss once told me it was unwise to make one's hobby their career. While I don't necessarily agree with that statement, I got his point. I knew that I had a knack for electronics & communications, and I was going to explore where it would take me. It's been an interesting ride, and every day has been an adventure.

I think I've got a couple of Motorola M1225 mobiles (VHF & UHF), somewhere in storage. I should dig them out, and see what I can do with them. If I recall correctly, they were capable of working both narrow & standard deviation. I'm not sure if that's selectable from the front of the radio, or via the software. As I look over the Radio Reference Database for my area, it seems like most commercial users have abandoned Analog FM, in-favor of a digital format. I don't know that there's much out there in my area, in-terms of Analog FM. More investigation is necessary.

 

[prcguy]

Has the OP looked at Motorola mobiles with FPP? Specifically the APX7500 dual band or APX8500 multiband?

 

[train_radio_guy]

Unfortunately, I've been out of the 2-way/LMR Industry for +21-years. Consequently, I'm not familiar with Motorola's newer radio series. I come more or less from a time, where the Genesis & Jedi Radio Series were commonplace. The original Clean Cab Spectra (pre-Astro) was the closest thing to a FPP Mobile through Motorola, that I was aware of. Technically, it was more of a pre-programmed radio, where the TX & RX Frequencies could be manually selected, with some basic Single Tone & DTMF Signaling. I believe later models had incorporated MDC-1200 Signaling as well.

I believe there were other radio manufacturers, who produced FPP Mobile Radios (Bendix-King, Icom, Kenwood, Regency/Wilson/Relm, etc..) Unfortunately, all of those mobile radios were long before the FCC 'new' narrow-banding mandates, & consequently don't support current radio formats & schemes (i.e. modulation & channel spacing).

Suffice to say, while I've heard about the APX Radio Series, it's only in passing, and I have no background on them.