• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Last of the scanners: Are police security measures and new technologies killing an American obsession?

kayn1n32008

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and Just like Dishnetwork and Directv both encryption both now pirated by boxes that decode the signal . And that was said it couldn’t be done also . So who knows . I’m Not saying it’ll happen more than I say you may in the future have to license a scanner or a devise that will monitor encryption . Who knows right .? I know nothing .. just rambling
What algorithm do they use? Is it inherently weak? Or does it have known exploits?


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slicerwizard

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Not true. DES is old and compromised, but have you ever met or can you even name someone who can decrypt it at home? I didn't think so.

Just because a university or team of people with super computers can decrypt a particular encryption scheme doesn't mean it will ever be possible for hobby scanner listeners.
No offense intended, but I can't determine if you're being deliberately misleading or you're just uninformed.
 

slicerwizard

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there are a few people in this area
Ah, an undefined area. Good start.


who are and have been working on several algorithm sniffing programs,
I asked Google what an "algorithm sniffing program" is and it seems to have no clue. So exactly what is an algorithm sniffing program?


that re-code the encrypted traffic so as to scan and listen to the scanner traffic...
it is being perfected as we speak
Hm, encryption? What kind?

Surely you could be more vague.
 

prcguy

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There has been no pirating of Directv for quite some time and although Dish had a problem about five years ago its been addressed and nobody is pirating them now.

and Just like Dishnetwork and Directv both encryption both now pirated by boxes that decode the signal . And that was said it couldn’t be done also . So who knows . I’m Not saying it’ll happen more than I say you may in the future have to license a scanner or a devise that will monitor encryption . Who knows right .? I know nothing .. just rambling
 

kcamper1969

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Is it legal?

well, that's a thin grey line in the sand. one may ask, "is everything that the authorities do Lawful?"" yes, there are a ton of dishonest police out there, while there are a few good police still out there. living in VA, i'm proud to say that i use my radar detector every day, just because i can, and because i like to see where the police hide, and when i drive by them, i merely chuckle, and say to myself, "I picked you up a whole lot farther away than you picked me up"..so, by saying this, our tax dollars are paying for their uniforms, cars, radios in one way or another, so, i feel that we have a right to listen in to what they are saying, because we have rights too...
 

kcamper1969

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Ah, an undefined area. Good start.



I asked Google what an "algorithm sniffing program" is and it seems to have no clue. So exactly what is an algorithm sniffing program?



Hm, encryption? What kind?

Surely you could be more vague.

hey there, i honestly have no idea, i have seen the guys on their computers and have looked at the screens...it is code after code rolling on the screen, and when a channel, albeit encrypted, or p25, it shows the long string of numbers beside the one keying up, and then the voice comes thru crystal clear...so, i don't know the specifics...
 

allend

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We don't and that I am a taxpayer and I should have the right does not wash either.

I think we all need to come to the realization that our rights as a US citizen has been eroding for the past few decades. We live in some real difficult times as a nation. We have been really divided for a really long time and I really don't feel that there is any hope on things getting better. History will always repeat it self. Maybe another Civil War is coming down the pipes in time. The only way for our country to comeback together is through very difficult times to the point "that we can't even imagine". I am talking very tough brutal times.

Now where that happens nobody knows, but we will face it somewhere down the road. Our rights now is that we can live in our own little bubbles each day and be a citizen which is worth Gold compared to other countries. But you take the good with the bad and enjoy whatever freedoms that we have left in our span of our own lives and be done with it. Unfortunately we as tax payers feel we have rights to everything that we pay for with our dollars, but in all reality we don't. The main goal of tax dollars is to keep taxing your money on top of your own money and the government funnels it away and mis-uses the money. Do I need to say anymore than that?
 

Peerlessk

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There has been no pirating of Directv for quite some time and although Dish had a problem about five years ago its been addressed and nobody is pirating them now.
This is correct . There is no need to do it . Spider tv is available . Illegal and I don’t support the idea . However encryption was broke in those systems . I think also public safety encyption would be harder to decrypt . Anyways I stand corrected
 

prcguy

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Early Directv encryption was figured out and the company spent a fortune upgrading everything to a level which is probably safe from casual hacking. Professionals working at an encryption company in Israel connected to Directv hacked Dish Network and at one time you could receive everything they had for free. It also cost Dish a fortune to upgrade encryption to a safe level.

Encryption used in Police radios is different and built into whatever radio they purchased and has nothing to do with revenue like pay TV. If for some reason everyone was able to hack your local PD encryption, they would have to purchase different radios or change the way they communicate until they upgrade. The audience for hacking police encryption is tiny compared to pay TV and the hardware and smarts needed to hear encrypted police comms real time would be enormous.

This is correct . There is no need to do it . Spider tv is available . Illegal and I don’t support the idea . However encryption was broke in those systems . I think also public safety encryption would be harder to decrypt . Anyways I stand corrected
 

TailGator911

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Analog vs. digital huh. In music? Analog over digital any day. Give me analog recording equipment over digital right now hands down. Some studios still give you options. Traditionalists and audio purists will debate this till the cows come home. Analog is smoother than digital. Signal to noise ratio can be bothersome, but it's all about the medium, how your sound is packaged. Digital wins there, but analog is preferred by those in the know. In radio? Digital is better when it comes to range and reception, but analog has its merits as well - simpler technology gives radio systems more bang for the buck. We didn't have to chase channels (i.e., trunking technology). Punch in the frequency and listen. Who woulda thunk a digital trunking radio system could cost millions of dollars?

I find this digital vs analog simplex argument somewhat amusing. In the big picture, and a 'SHTF' scenario - who cares as long as you CAN communicate when your very life depends on communications? Try hefting a PRC-77 radio on a P68 pack frame on your back in ankle deep mud with 7.62s cutting down weeds all around you while you are looking for high ground in order to transmit KCs 3mi back to artillery and freaking out because you really have no idea where YOU are before calling in coordinates. Those of you who know these numbers and terms know the era. Analog was all we had. Analog coms are the best :)

JD
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prcguy

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I would prefer an MBITR or 152 on satcom while dug in and 5.45s are whizzing by. Otherwise I agree, good analog audio rocks over digital. But what does that have to do with the last of police scanners?


Analog vs. digital huh. In music? Analog over digital any day. Give me analog recording equipment over digital right now hands down. Some studios still give you options. Traditionalists and audio purists will debate this till the cows come home. Analog is smoother than digital. Signal to noise ratio can be bothersome, but it's all about the medium, how your sound is packaged. Digital wins there, but analog is preferred by those in the know. In radio? Digital is better when it comes to range and reception, but analog has its merits as well - simpler technology gives radio systems more bang for the buck. We didn't have to chase channels (i.e., trunking technology). Punch in the frequency and listen. Who woulda thunk a digital trunking radio system could cost millions of dollars?

I find this digital vs analog simplex argument somewhat amusing. In the big picture, and a 'SHTF' scenario - who cares as long as you CAN communicate when your very life depends on communications? Try hefting a PRC-77 radio on a P68 pack frame on your back in ankle deep mud with 7.62s cutting down weeds all around you while you are looking for high ground in order to transmit KCs 3mi back to artillery and freaking out because you really have no idea where YOU are before calling in coordinates. Those of you who know these numbers and terms know the era. Analog was all we had. Analog coms are the best :)

JD
kf4anc
 

allend

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Early Directv encryption was figured out and the company spent a fortune upgrading everything to a level which is probably safe from casual hacking. Professionals working at an encryption company in Israel connected to Directv hacked Dish Network and at one time you could receive everything they had for free. It also cost Dish a fortune to upgrade encryption to a safe level.

Encryption used in Police radios is different and built into whatever radio they purchased and has nothing to do with revenue like pay TV. If for some reason everyone was able to hack your local PD encryption, they would have to purchase different radios or change the way they communicate until they upgrade. The audience for hacking police encryption is tiny compared to pay TV and the hardware and smarts needed to hear encrypted police comms real time would be enormous.
Also, DirecTv spent millions of dollars on attorney's to combat fight this hacking issue too. They went from California all the was up the West Coast and to Canada to serve search warrants on dist selling those card readers. They seized shipping documents to all of the people that received those card readers and filed complaints to them too. Even if you were served it did not say that you stole TV but the intent to steal was there. It took a few years to find everybody but they served papers to everyone that bought these readers.

This was a federal crime and every card reader that you bought they wanted it back and slapped a 10K judgement lien against you. They were not playing around. Then you have to meet with attorney's and work deals so you did not have to wait for a federal trial. Don't hack crap or TV or nothing. It's not a fun road for people thinking its okay. I had friends that got a card reader and used it once and their card got fried and it just is not worth it.
 

prcguy

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I'm more familiar with this than you could ever know.

Also, DirecTv spent millions of dollars on attorney's to combat fight this hacking issue too. They went from California all the was up the West Coast and to Canada to serve search warrants on dist selling those card readers. They seized shipping documents to all of the people that received those card readers and filed complaints to them too. Even if you were served it did not say that you stole TV but the intent to steal was there. It took a few years to find everybody but they served papers to everyone that bought these readers.

This was a federal crime and every card reader that you bought they wanted it back and slapped a 10K judgement lien against you. They were not playing around. Then you have to meet with attorney's and work deals so you did not have to wait for a federal trial. Don't hack crap or TV or nothing. It's not a fun road for people thinking its okay. I had friends that got a card reader and used it once and their card got fried and it just is not worth it.
 

TailGator911

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I would prefer an MBITR or 152 on satcom while dug in and 5.45s are whizzing by. Otherwise I agree, good analog audio rocks over digital. But what does that have to do with the last of police scanners?
Was referring to earlier in the thread - the analog vs digital simplex debate and what does it matter yada yada.

<<I would prefer an MBITR or 152 on satcom while dug in and 5.45s are whizzing by>>

We are obviously from different eras, my friend :) But the song remains the same.

JD
kf4anc
 

prcguy

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I'm from the PRC-25/77 and RT-524 era, I just prefer the newer stuff.

Was referring to earlier in the thread - the analog vs digital simplex debate and what does it matter yada yada.

<<I would prefer an MBITR or 152 on satcom while dug in and 5.45s are whizzing by>>

We are obviously from different eras, my friend :) But the song remains the same.

JD
kf4anc
 

slicerwizard

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hey there, i honestly have no idea, i have seen the guys on their computers and have looked at the screens...it is code after code rolling on the screen, and when a channel, albeit encrypted, or p25, it shows the long string of numbers beside the one keying up, and then the voice comes thru crystal clear...so, i don't know the specifics...
So they're running DSD or OP25 to monitor P25. That's nothing special.
 

slicerwizard

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the hardware and smarts needed to hear encrypted police comms real time would be enormous.
You can't be referring to AES256 comms because they're uncrackable. That leaves gutted DES and lesser schemes, like ADP or NXDN scrambling, and they would require colossal resources? Citation required.
 
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