• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Last of the scanners: Are police security measures and new technologies killing an American obsession?

Hans13

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Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
905
I have seen were some have said it's paid for by tax dollars so we have the right. Well nuclear weapons design, encrypted communications used in war time by the military, fighter jet plans, war ship plans, the social security system database, and even you medical records and treatments if you are on Medicare or other government insurance are paid for by the government, and ultimately your tax dollars. But it's still classified and you can't claim your taxes paid for it so hand it over. Or do I have the right to know about your last prostrate exam? What sort of hoochie ailment your wife may have? The doctors notes on you ED problems? And remember that there are STILL police departments out there reading names, social security numbers and dates of birth over VHF clear communication channels. Do YOU want to get pulled over in that jurisdiction and have your personal data broadcast for everyone with a scanner to hear it for 20 miles in all directions.
Apples and oranges.

And there is a cure to all of this. You can find area's that are still running open air communications and move there. YOu don't have to live in an area where the evil police chief has made the decision to encrypt the communications of their department which they are fully within their right to do most places.
Rights do not equal privileges. The jury is still out on if they have the privilege to do that.
 

belvdr

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Aug 2, 2013
Messages
341
Nor should anyone be claiming that AES256 will ever be cracked. Show me a weakness, or you're just blowing smoke.
I cannot predict the future, which is what we are talking about. I know of no current weakness (i.e. the present), but I do not research this heavily.

However, history has proven that as software and algorithms age, vulnerabilities are discovered. Will AES be the one that follows a different path? Nobody can tell but there is a reason why we have moved on from older algorithms and methods.
 

EnkiAnu

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Joined
Dec 12, 2014
Messages
10
OK, enough of the hand wringing, teeth gnashing and hyperventilating! Whatever the motorola and others come up with to encrypt some enterprising scanner group will figure out how to de-crypt. Its happened each time they've tried to keep us (scanner users) from hearing what is going on. I've seen this same discussion everytime there has been some new encryption that comes along. I've been scanner listening since the old, old days when it was one channel and a crystal back in the 60's & 70's. I'm just not worried that our scanning hobby will vanish because of the latest, greatest new-encryption system has come along. Are they trying to keep us from listening to their traffic? You bet. Will it work? Not a chance!!! Doesn't hurt to be vigilant but seen this same discussion time and again for over 40-years.
 

radio3353

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Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
1,032
Question:

What annoys you more -
1. Encryption?
2. Endless banal discussions of encryption?
:rolleyes:
 

kayn1n32008

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Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
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Location
In the \'patch
Whatever the motorola and others come up with to encrypt some enterprising scanner group will figure out how to de-crypt.
Motorola and others did not ‘come up with to encrypt’ at all. AES encryption was developed by Vincent Rijmen and Joan Daemen. They are from Belgium. AES was originally named Rijndael Cipher. It was the winner of a rather long competition to replace DES.

Have a read about AES:

Advanced Encryption Standard - Wikipedia

Its happened each time they've tried to keep us (scanner users) from hearing what is going on.
P16(EDACS and Motorola Type 2) were never produced to stop people from listening, monitoring technology was simply slow to catch up. Don’t confuse different trunking formats with encryption.

I've seen this same discussion everytime there has been some new encryption that comes along.
[emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]

I'm just not worried that our scanning hobby will vanish because of the latest, greatest new-encryption system has come along. Are they trying to keep us from listening to their traffic? You bet. Will it work? Not a chance!!! Doesn't hurt to be vigilant but seen this same discussion time and again for over 40-years.
Oh lord. Scanning today, and actual modern encryption(not digital voice you think was encryption) is nothing like a crystal controlled scanner you started out on.

Uniden and whistler are not now, or ever, going to come up with a scanner to defeat AES encryption. Period.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

K7MFC

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Phx, AZ
some enterprising scanner group will figure out how to de-crypt.
Yeah, that's never going to happen. And if there ever was an easily exploitable vulnerability found in AES, Uniden and Whister definitely aren't going to incorporate that in any scanners.
 

prcguy

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Jun 30, 2006
Messages
8,017
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
Not true. DES is old and compromised, but have you ever met or can you even name someone who can decrypt it at home? I didn't think so.

Just because a university or team of people with super computers can decrypt a particular encryption scheme doesn't mean it will ever be possible for hobby scanner listeners.

OK, enough of the hand wringing, teeth gnashing and hyperventilating! Whatever the motorola and others come up with to encrypt some enterprising scanner group will figure out how to de-crypt. Its happened each time they've tried to keep us (scanner users) from hearing what is going on. I've seen this same discussion everytime there has been some new encryption that comes along. I've been scanner listening since the old, old days when it was one channel and a crystal back in the 60's & 70's. I'm just not worried that our scanning hobby will vanish because of the latest, greatest new-encryption system has come along. Are they trying to keep us from listening to their traffic? You bet. Will it work? Not a chance!!! Doesn't hurt to be vigilant but seen this same discussion time and again for over 40-years.
 

TailGator911

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Feb 12, 2005
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1,841
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Fairborn, OH
This same banal argument (albeit different goals) was tossed around in the 1950s when a group of highly intelligent folks formed the National Aeronautics and Space Administration aka NASA, and there were those in the majority who were adamant that it was impossible (and a colossal waste of time, resources, and money) for man to walk upon the moon. Never say never, folks. To do so is to doubt our very own capabilities as the most progressive species on earth.

JD
kf4anc
 

KC2CQD

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Angola, NY
Hopefully the monitoring technology will catch up to the comms technology. Granted it might be costly a hobby to partake but those costs will drop over time.
Also, I'm a first responder and have been for over 20 years...I also used to work for this little company once known as Radio Shack....back when they actually sold radio gear... I remember the big buzz about everyone going trunked and even though some COMPANIES did, many small to medium communities did not!
I sold a lot of Trunk Trackers to Hams and ordinary folks alike due to that hype. In the end, the local volunteer departments could not afford the switch even with County help (and pressure). The only change we made was switching from the old "Low Band" radios to UHF. Our local PD is still on the same VHF it was on 25 years ago when I moved to this town, as are the county Sheriffs. Some agencies that have made the switch have actually gone back because they find the newer systems are just not reliable.
Some bigger cities might make or have made the switch, but honestly, I never monitored those circuses anyway.
 

kcamper1969

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Joined
May 12, 2016
Messages
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Location
Anywhere I want To Be,
The good old days are gone. DMR of trash haulers, factory workers, and other occupations are the future. All it takes is a few on a county council to vote encryption and say goodbye to monitoring. Even the hospitals in my county are encrypted. Some will argue that scanning is still good and has a future. Those people tend to be from counties where encryption has not taken hold. YET! Air? Trains? Some Military? It doesn't fill the void for me. A recently purchased used 436 from these classifieds has only emboldened my opinion. Great if you can satisfy your hunger with your local current scanning desires. I am jealous.


there are a few people in this area who are and have been working on several algorithm sniffing programs, that re-code the encrypted traffic so as to scan and listen to the scanner traffic...
it is being perfected as we speak
 

kcamper1969

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Joined
May 12, 2016
Messages
13
Location
Anywhere I want To Be,
Hopefully the monitoring technology will catch up to the comms technology. Granted it might be costly a hobby to partake but those costs will drop over time.
Also, I'm a first responder and have been for over 20 years...I also used to work for this little company once known as Radio Shack....back when they actually sold radio gear... I remember the big buzz about everyone going trunked and even though some COMPANIES did, many small to medium communities did not!
I sold a lot of Trunk Trackers to Hams and ordinary folks alike due to that hype. In the end, the local volunteer departments could not afford the switch even with County help (and pressure). The only change we made was switching from the old "Low Band" radios to UHF. Our local PD is still on the same VHF it was on 25 years ago when I moved to this town, as are the county Sheriffs. Some agencies that have made the switch have actually gone back because they find the newer systems are just not reliable.
Some bigger cities might make or have made the switch, but honestly, I never monitored those circuses anyway.

there are a few people in this area who are and have been working on several algorithm sniffing programs, that re-code the encrypted traffic so as to scan and listen to the scanner traffic...
it is being perfected as we speak
 

Peerlessk

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2013
Messages
267
Location
Lima NY
and Just like Dishnetwork and Directv both encryption both now pirated by boxes that decode the signal . And that was said it couldn’t be done also . So who knows . I’m Not saying it’ll happen more than I say you may in the future have to license a scanner or a devise that will monitor encryption . Who knows right .? I know nothing .. just rambling
 
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