LMRN General Discussion

[VA3DBJ]

I dunno if the question has been asked:

If Encryption is so cheap and busy to install why aren't the MTO Patrol talkgroups encrypted as well?

For the tows? If not for them why don't they encrypt everything?

Just a stab in the dark, maybe the same reason why certain groups on other P25 systems never went encrypted. They just didn't meet the personal information requirements. That was the excuse back when Durham Region's system went up and why the Police and Fire were encrypted and Town/City Services weren't.

 

[Gymbag]

I dunno if the question has been asked:

If encryption is so cheap and busy to install, why aren't the MTO Patrol talkgroups encrypted as well? For the tows? If not for them why don't they encrypt everything?

Probably has to do with information they are sharing over the airwaves. Not too much personal info being broadcast by the MTO road maintenance crews.

 

[gary123]

There is a persistent rumor that The MTO road crews want to go encrypted. The rumored reason is for crew safety and operational security. There was concern that snow plows may be hijacked and stolen. Probably to be shipped to the middle east with all the other stole cars. (just kidding)

My take is that they want it because everyone else has it. Technically the radios support ADP out of the box and technically one AES key. To add encryption to the fleet either OTAP would need to be used or some techs are going to be busy reprogramming units.

 

[Muxlow]

Band conditions are up and picking up Pelee Island site 49.
Think the B team of BMR was sent out there also as its peer site are 16-Chatham 17-Essex and 46-Fort Erie. 46 SHOULD be 47-Leamington
Fail

 

[Forts]

Well... Ft Erie is kinda sorta line of site up the lake! It's just a quick 350km away.

 

[gary123]

46 is close to 47 numerically

 

[exkalibur]

Well... Ft Erie is kinda sorta line of site up the lake! It's just a quick 350km away.

The Fort Erie site is not a particularly high site, I think it is just for fill in in that southeast area.

 

[kayn1n32008]

I imagine they are using it for Tx burn in and range checks?

Transmit combiner output balancing is another possibility.

 

[thecanadiangod]

Has anyone heard un-encrypted radio transmission? The kind where you only hear one side of the conversation?

 

[Muxlow]

Not on this system. Or least that I've noticed. Sarnia Police were doing that for a bit when they went from Astro Spectra radios with DES encryption. Everything was secured. Then they went to APX radios with AES and the dispatcher was in the clear for the longest time.

 

[gary123]

LMRN is pretty well locked up.

 

[mbstone99]

I recently logged a single hit on these two MOH VRs in P25 mode. I am not sure if they where enc or not.

VR03 772.05625 NAC 0D7
VR05 773.03125 NAC 86B

Matt

 

[gary123]

Depends where they are. The NAC would indicate encrypted. I have seen a NAC B07 decoded by DSD on VR03. No TG seen but DSD seems to not process "Simplex' P25P2 signals. I will be checking to see if these repeaters are using a slot or are in P1 mode.

 

[Enjoi19]

"Simplex' P25P2 signals

Phase 2 is only for trunked systems - so they'll be P25 going to the DVRS, then spit back out as P2 to the system.

 

[mikewazowski]

NAC won't tell you if their encrypted either.

Pretty sure these DVRS' negotiate a NAC with the portable so you'll see all sorts of different NAC's. A fixed DVRS at a detachment might have a fixed NAC.

 

[w3rwn]

depends where they are. The NAC would indicate encrypted. I have seen a NAC B07 decoded by DSD on VR03. No TG seen but DSD seems to not process "Simplex' P25P2 signals. I will be checking to see if these repeaters are using a slot or are in P1 mode.

Nope. Encryption is controlled by Bit 6 in the Service Options Octet, in the Subscriber Unit Group Voice Request.
The Channel Grant message outbound tells the other mobiles what channel to go to, mode and key to use.

Here's a handy P25 Trunking Protocol Reference Guide. Encryption or Clear is part of the Channel Grant message.

https://www.viavisolutions.com/en-us/literature/understanding-advanced-p25-control-channel-functions-discontinued-application-notes-en.pdf

Phase 2 is only for trunked systems - so they'll be P25 going to the DVRS, then spit back out as P2 to the system.

Seems logical. The NAC is probably consistent, and the DVRS can filter for various Radio IDs, or allow all.
They are probably using TGID=1 between Portable and DVRS.

 

[Muxlow]

Anyone have any hits on group 4658? Radio 784582? Had a hit off that at 2106 on the chatham tower

 

[mikewazowski]

Haven't seen anything here on that or close to that.

 

[VA3ADP]

Also been seeing 2512 the last couple of days off of Britannia/Mississauga. Its more than likely MTO enforcement but its not patched with anything.