M/A-COM OpenSky in PA

[dmg1969]

Well, it's been a while since I posted in here because of my county (Cumberland County, PA) having gone to OpenSky. It has been about 6 months since I had any contact with a guy from Tyco - MA/COM, and also the director of the Cumberland County EMA. So, I sent an e-mail to both inquiring as to whether there has been any talk about looking into an OpenSky scanner. Not that I'm holding out much hope, but I figured I'd check in about every half-year. I'll let you know what type of response I get. In the meantime, I've gone back to doing woodworking in my basement as my hobby.

Dave G.

 

[mfn002]

Oh, well. It's just too complicated. The only solice is the fact that all OpenSky systems I have heard about are behind schedule and over budget. All it takes is for one client to cancel a multi-million dollar deal and MACOM could be in BIG trouble. A great example of this is Millwaukee. Their system is years behind schedule and still unusable. What's worse is that the entire state is on ASTRO systems. If I were a councilman in that city, I would be calling for the axe on the project. I can only imagine the reprecussions if even ONE OpenSky system failed. Hopefully, the only element of MACOM we'd have to worry about would be EDACS if this happened.

 

[PJH]

What you have read in the "over budget" stuff would be...well...the PA system. The state played the role of contractor and from what I have gathered didn't research or plan many things well. Of course, MA/COM would also have a hand in it as its there system but PA didn't exactly do things right.

In NY, NY is using a contractor/intergrator to do all this work. But, like any wide area system (and the idiots that run the state here), it didn't seem like they planned or ask the right questions as they are hearing stuff about how much more the system will really cost. Should be interesting.

 

[brey1234]

All it takes is for one client to cancel a multi-million dollar deal and MACOM could be in BIG trouble. A great example of this is Millwaukee. Their system is years behind schedule and still unusable.

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Do u have any newspaper links to some of this info????

 

[PJH]

Most, if not all contracts have a clause that will not cost the company oodles of dollars should the contract go away. If MA/COM (or anyone else) really REALLY F'd up the contract, then they could stand to lose some money.

BUT, they are paid for work performed within the contract. They are not going to be out lots of cash. Just as people think that MA/COM is front ALL the money on NY's contract, that isn't the case if you read it carefully. As things are setup, MA/COM gets paid. They are not going to build out hundreds of millions of dollars for free.

 

[n4voxgill]

and macom would probably sue the city for the city's failure to comply all of the terms of the contract.

 

[PJH]

And why shouldn'y they (or anyone else) not?

 

[mfn002]

I'm just saying that MACOM risks a lot (reputation-wise) if people really start to look at OpenSky's woes. Who's going to want to buy from a company that turns projects into giant black holes for money?

 

[brey1234]

If you want to get an idea of the problems/discussions about the Open Sky project for Cumberland Co Pa . Check this out. Open Sky is the system the state is trying to deploy staewide.

http://www.centralpafire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8778

 

[PJH]

I saw nothing significant in that thread. I read each and every post. There is nothing there about the trunked system that doesn't really happen on any other new system - reguardless of design or manufacture - on the buildout.

All I saw there were a couple of whiny vocal firefighters who gave NO example of what the problem(s) are/where.

The only thing that I saw were the usual deadspot issues and lack of training and/or understanding on how the system operates.

 

[mfn002]

I suspected as much...

 

[mfn002]

The ASTRO system in my county has had very few problems. I've been listening since the system went live in January, 2005. There have been no real major problems with the system at all.

The system consists of a single tower located in the north part of Bryan. Coverage from the system is excellent, extending far south past the county line, and can be usable even in adjoining counties.

 

[Mattsenft]

To hopefully clarify for some of the people interested in the OpenSky problems I can give a little insight. I have personally used and also watched other people use the system. The coverage is poor in some areas, but hey show me a trunked system that has perfect coverage. The voice quality is one of the largest concerns. It's hard to understand at best. A firmware update from Ma/Com was supposed to address the problems but it seems that it hasn't really fixed that issue and has added some additional problems with the V-Tacs systems. My biggest problem with the whole mess is that numerous other companies had to put big money into R&D for their systems and then prove they work to sell them. It seems that Ma/Com is doing most of their R&D at the expense of the customers after selling them the system. It's just my opinion but its sad to see first responders put at possible risk over commercial and political bs. Lets get the problems fixed for the people that need it the most then finger point and argue who is paying the bill afterwards.

 

[PJH]

Matt, R&D point is most likely the biggest "issue" that I have had with the system. It has been said from the beginning... "MA/COM will sell you the system then develop it".

I think there is truth to that.

However, as I pointed out in a post to the Central PA board, OpenSky was designed from the ground up to be a wide area system. In addition to that, its showcasing many new technologies. However, somebody has to be the "beta tester" and PA willingly signed on to do it.

The other trunking technologies evolved from single site systems. OpenSky is your new kid on the block.

 

[mfn002]

It's unfortunate, however, that they have to "beta test" it by making people's lives depend on it (somehow the term "lab mice" comes to mind).

If someone dies because of a failure of the system, who would be held more liable: MACOM or Pennsylvania?

 

[brey1234]

Experience With Open Sky

The following is from a police officer who used the Open Sky operation in a drug sting.
==================================================

I knew the State radio system had problems, but I tried to keep an open mind. I just had the opportunity to use them on a drug case and it's not worth it.

The case was in the southern Luzerne County and northern Schuylkill County area.

I can't believe the price they paid for that system and how poor it is. Because it's digital I can deal with the fact that the users voice is distorted and "flat". But the radios - they just didn't work.

I was sitting 2 blocks from the bad guys while other members of the team were doing surveillance. Imagine my amazement when I saw the bad guys drive past me and I didn't hear anybody on the radio!

When you were able to make a transmission, there is nothing to stop it from fading in and out. Most of the time I heard about every 2nd or 3rd word.

We used them 2 times in the operation. The rest of the time - Nextel group connect.

It's a sad state of afairs when using Nextel is an improvement!

 

[mfn002]

Wow...When are the guys in charge of this project going to realize that it's a horrible screwup and possibly a failure?

My prediction is that the system will end up being used for statewide interop but not much more. MACOM will be utterly humiliated, and the state will be blushing with embarrassment over a massive waste of taxpayer money and resources. As for other OpenSky customers, hopefully they will see PA's failure and terminate their own projects. The system is simply too complicated, and it could take years before it would ever even remotely work correctly and function as promised. Basically, the only thing valuable in the system will be the copper it's made out of!

 

[brey1234]

There is a saying:

The more complicated the plumbing---the easier it is to stop up the drain

 

[PJH]

Its nice to be armchair scannerbacks not knowing whats going on behind the scenes...

Its really isn't all THAT complicated when you break it down.

 

[mfn002]

Well, if that was the case, the system would have been up and running a long time ago!

My suggestion: If they do axe the project, I would like to get ahold of some of those handhelds. I was thinking they would make killer-looking FRS radios!