MABAS Box Alarm System

[KidClerk]

The two counties to my west in Illinois are using MABAS and now two of my fire departments in the northern part of my county are on with Lake County. The rest of us will probably follow suit. I'm not sure that is how I want to go, but we may not have much choice. I have looked at the Illinois MABAS web page and it has a lot of useful information, I'm just trying to determine how many Indiana counties are going to that. You are right, we're all going in that direction.

Thanks!

Kid

There is a lot of good info on the MABAS webpage under downloads. Including box cards. I would look at the powerpoint program. Not sure if it is the same one i have seen here in Michigan but if it is, it has a lot good info on how the system works.
Box alram cards are becoming the "wave of the future". Making interstate and intrastate MA easier for EOC's. We have gone to a similar thing here, and it works really well. Also flexable enough to allow for "special requests".
I know there are area's in SW lower MI (St. Joesph area) that are members of MABAS.
Good luck on your info hunt (when in doubt GOOGLE).

MABAS link:

Welcome To MABAS

 

[KidClerk]

Tim:

We have the following frequencies to use: 154.100, 154.205, 158.805, 154.175, 154.355, 154.280 plus we have our own talk group on SAFE-T. We communicate with each other with NO PROBLEM AT ALL. I never said we had any problems communicating. I also said I didn't care about 154.280 and that it had nothing to do with my original post. It still doesn't. Please stop...you are going to run me off of this forum like you probably have dozens of others. But if you have so much time to think of ways we can make 154.280 be God's gift to the fire service (instead of water), do your own google of MABAS and see what all they hype is about. And please, drop the discussion and don't send me private offers to "help set this system up". At this point, I don't think you could be of any benefit since you don't understand a thing anyone has said in this thread.

-Kyle

This could all be taken care of in Northwest Indiana(Newton Co and all Fire Departments in the area of this poster) if all Emergency Responce Units would have the abilty to communicate with each other in the field by using 154.280. That is what is is made for.What I do not understand is that if the poster is The Fire Chief of The deparment then why does he not have his dispatch monitor 154.280 as the poster advised that they have a FCC license for 154.280 but he has not heard anything on it.Maybe the poster needs to get in touch with all the surrounding Fire Departments and let them know of what he wants to do.The First step is to have is Dispatch monior 154.280 on a 24/7 365 basis.Granted he has a dispatch and the dispatcher would just have to turn up the audio on dispatch and let the others know that *Someone was listening*Marion County Rual Fire Service who is no longer around which is now IFD communications was monitoring 154.280 Fire Point to Point and they would ID on the Hour.I was also heaing Wayne Township along with Brownsburg and others who were all on VHF at that time working with each other way before MECA of safe-t was even thought of.154.280 will work if it is used as a communcations tool for Emergency Communications.Ask any Volunteer Firefighter who has 154.280 is his Pov(His truck, car).I have heard numerious Volunteers calling for help on 154.280 and someone has answered them and got them help.It it is a matter of life and death with a serious PI with entrapment and you are the only one on the scene with no one else to help you I think this would be a great idea for all FireDepartment Dispatch Points to monitor 154.280.This is like *The Indiana State Police Post Dist 13 Lowell post for years would have a monitor for 155.340 for IHERN.If a dispatcher was hearing a ambulance calling a hospital and they did not answer the dispatcher would call the hospital and tell there ER to get on the radio to answer the ambulance on the way to the hospital.That was the way it was done in Northwest Indiana for years until Safe-t was developed* If you would have a dispatcher in front of the 154.280 operating position you would be able to take care of request for Mutural Aid for a Tanker, Engine, Ambulance, squad, or a Tactical Rescue Team to assist another department.

 

[KidClerk]

Yes, that is what it's designed to do. Every possible response is predetermined, and all the IC has to do is request the card or the next level of the card he's working. Then dispatch goes down the list and dispatches those units. I personally struggle with this system in a small county because I know which departments have the resources I need based on time of day, day of week, etc. There is no way to work a card system like this. But, it would also be nice to just tell dispatch to "strike the next level" instead of rattling off the top of my head who I need and what I need from them.

That's a good question. When I toured Hendricks Dispatch, I don't remember that point being brought up. One would think that since the lower priority units are listed on the card, then the dispatcher could just continue working down the list if the IC asks for more assistance. On the other hand, I routinely hear ICs asking for specific equipment, e.g. ladder from here, tanker from there, etc.

I can see the value of what you are talking about. The IC shouldn't have to be bothered with where the assistance comes from. If the IC determines that they need more engines, ladders, tankers, medics, etc., they should be able to ask for them by type and let the dispatcher figure out where to get them.

 

[h00sierdaddy]

Lake County, IN is the most recent member of MABAS. It is Division 207. Although it is very new, created in Oct 2009, it has gained a lot of momentum. It's members include just about every fire department in Lake County, with the obvious exception of Gary, Hammond, EC, Whiting and a few other volunteer departments up north. MABAS has 8 frequencies available, 6 fireground channels (color-coded red, blue, white, gold, black, gray) and 2 coordination/alerting channels (IFERN & IFERN 2). Crown Point will probably be the primary dispatch center once the equipment is installed. Another great part about MABAS is the policy/procedures. Once you sign into MABAS, you agree to adjust/change your departments SOG's to that of MABAS sog's. Bottom line, everybody is talking on the same channel and operating within the same sog's at the same incident. Every department has box cards that cover every incident. Box cards start at a Still Alarm, Working Still, Box Alarm, then 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th alarms.

MABAS 207 already has a divisional dive team, TRT team and about 12 active departments, with more to come aboard in 2010. The only other active division in Indiana is St. Joseph County (Division 201).

 

[KidClerk]

Thanks...this is what I was curious about as far as which counties were using MABAS. I knew Lake was implementing it as two of my fire departments here in Newton County are a part of that, Lincoln Township and Lake Township fire departments. The other four will probably be joining unless we can get interest to create our own with Jasper County. I have yet to hear any MABAS style dispatching out of Lake County but I'm far enough south I don't always hear anything other than Crown Point and Lowell. Can you post the 8 frequencies they will be using? I know they still do some dispatching on the 154.815 frequency which is also used by the sheriff's department.

Lake County, IN is the most recent member of MABAS. It is Division 207. Although it is very new, created in Oct 2009, it has gained a lot of momentum. It's members include just about every fire department in Lake County, with the obvious exception of Gary, Hammond, EC, Whiting and a few other volunteer departments up north. MABAS has 8 frequencies available, 6 fireground channels (color-coded red, blue, white, gold, black, gray) and 2 coordination/alerting channels (IFERN & IFERN 2). Crown Point will probably be the primary dispatch center once the equipment is installed. Another great part about MABAS is the policy/procedures. Once you sign into MABAS, you agree to adjust/change your departments SOG's to that of MABAS sog's. Bottom line, everybody is talking on the same channel and operating within the same sog's at the same incident. Every department has box cards that cover every incident. Box cards start at a Still Alarm, Working Still, Box Alarm, then 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th alarms.

MABAS 207 already has a divisional dive team, TRT team and about 12 active departments, with more to come aboard in 2010. The only other active division in Indiana is St. Joseph County (Division 201).

 

[rdale]

Can you post the 8 frequencies they will be using?

What's the problem - all you need is 154.280MHz

 

[FFPM571]

IFERN that MABAS uses is 154.265 for dispatch

 

[KidClerk]

Good thing I have a sense of humor!

What's the problem - all you need is 154.280MHz

 

[KidClerk]

I hear Shelby VFD paged on that freq. but still hear Schneider on 154.815 and Lowell on 154.445 I believe. I suppose they're going to keep what they're currently using.

Thanks

IFERN that MABAS uses is 154.265 for dispatch

 

[shauno]

Our county fire departments (Newton Co.) are in discussions regarding implementing the MABAS box alarm system for fire dispatch. We've talked about this off and on for many years, and I have been one of the most vocal critics because I've never thought our dispatch center was capable of handling it. (they struggle with the most routine dispatches most of the time) I do hear it in use in Iroquois and Kankakee counties just over the Illinois state line from me, but I'm curious if there are any counties in Indiana that might be using it? We're talking about tagging onto Lake county's system or possibly devising our own. I think we'd be better served by coordinating it with Jasper than Lake myself. Are there any small, rural counties like mine that utilize it? Does it sound like it's working as it's designed to?

Thanks for any info anyone can share.

Porter County has a county wide Box Alarm system through the Porter County Fire Association. Their Box Alarm system works wonderfully. May want to talk to someone on the PCFA (their web address is Welcome to the Frontpage)

 

[h00sierdaddy]

Sorry for the delay, I've been out of town. As far as dispatching & MABAS Div 207 is concerned, you won't hear a lot of changes when it comes to dispatching out calls. This is due to the impending county consolidation of all 9-1-1 dispatch centers into one. What you will hear is dispatching Box Alarm (or higher) incidents over IFERN. There are 6 low-power, simplex fireground channels. They are color coded, Fireground: Red, White, Blue, Gold, Black, Gray. What is nice is a department from southern Lake County can go into the northern suburbs and talk to the crews on any of the above mentioned fireground channels. You will start to hear a lot more coordination between all of the departments in Division 207.

 

[kb9sxk]

This could all be taken care of in Northwest Indiana(Newton Co and all Fire Departments in the area of this poster) if all Emergency Responce Units would have the abilty to communicate with each other in the field by using 154.280. That is what is is made for.What I do not understand is that if the poster is The Fire Chief of The deparment then why does he not have his dispatch monitor 154.280 as the poster advised that they have a FCC license for 154.280 but he has not heard anything on it.Maybe the poster needs to get in touch with all the surrounding Fire Departments and let them know of what he wants to do.The First step is to have is Dispatch monior 154.280 on a 24/7 365 basis.Granted he has a dispatch and the dispatcher would just have to turn up the audio on dispatch and let the others know that *Someone was listening*Marion County Rual Fire Service who is no longer around which is now IFD communications was monitoring 154.280 Fire Point to Point and they would ID on the Hour.I was also heaing Wayne Township along with Brownsburg and others who were all on VHF at that time working with each other way before MECA of safe-t was even thought of.154.280 will work if it is used as a communcations tool for Emergency Communications.Ask any Volunteer Firefighter who has 154.280 is his Pov(His truck, car).I have heard numerious Volunteers calling for help on 154.280 and someone has answered them and got them help.It it is a matter of life and death with a serious PI with entrapment and you are the only one on the scene with no one else to help you I think this would be a great idea for all FireDepartment Dispatch Points to monitor 154.280.This is like *The Indiana State Police Post Dist 13 Lowell post for years would have a monitor for 155.340 for IHERN.If a dispatcher was hearing a ambulance calling a hospital and they did not answer the dispatcher would call the hospital and tell there ER to get on the radio to answer the ambulance on the way to the hospital.That was the way it was done in Northwest Indiana for years until Safe-t was developed* If you would have a dispatcher in front of the 154.280 operating position you would be able to take care of request for Mutural Aid for a Tanker, Engine, Ambulance, squad, or a Tactical Rescue Team to assist another department.

Can you hit "return" every so often. It is sometimes hard to read one big paragraph.

 

[h00sierdaddy]

For the Record 154.280 was developed for Fire Point to Point communications and also Mutual aid operations.If you are the chief of The Fire Department then maybe you could get a mutal aid network going on 154.280 and you already have a license for that frequency.You could talk to the Fire Chiefs in Jasper,Pulaski,Starke,Lake,Porter,Laporte Counties to start your own network.If they have a license for 154.280 then that is all you need.Someone in your dispatch should turn up the audio in dispatch to keep and ear out in the event someone does call in for help.154.280 could be used for this operation if you would set up some guidelines so everyone could work together and work as a team.You need to see up written guidelines for the use of the system.154.280 is monitored all across Indiana and that is why all the volunteer Firefighters have it in the radios in there pov's.154.280 could not only be used for Mutual aid but also for emergencies when the other channels are tied up with a current working incident.

Things are a little different here in Northwest Indiana/Metro Chicago...nobody that I know of runs to firecalls in POV's. If they come across something, most everyone has a cell phone. Secondly, the 154.280 you speak of is still an active fireground channel within MABAS, it is fireground white. Thirdly, Indiana's "Mutual Aid" system (if you can even call it that) is archaic. The MABAS system has been adopted and used in IL, IN, WI, MI, IA, and MO. It is all neatly organized within divisions and a universal set of operating guidelines. Any MABAS department can go to another (across state lines) and talk to each other and operate, in general, the same way. To completely understand, you have to experience it.

If you're ever up in the Chicago Metro area, you might want to monitor IFERN instead of 154.280.

 

[KidClerk]

I agree with all of this but want to make one point. The irony here is that while SAFE-T was designed to allow for ineroperability, we must use our VHF frequencies in order to communicate with our mutual aid departments across the state line. Installing Illinois talk groups in our radios is a very complex procedure from what I understand and it is a whole lot easier to operate like we have, frequency wise, for many years.

Things are a little different here in Northwest Indiana/Metro Chicago...nobody that I know of runs to firecalls in POV's. If they come across something, most everyone has a cell phone. Secondly, the 154.280 you speak of is still an active fireground channel within MABAS, it is fireground white. Thirdly, Indiana's "Mutual Aid" system (if you can even call it that) is archaic. The MABAS system has been adopted and used in IL, IN, WI, MI, IA, and MO. It is all neatly organized within divisions and a universal set of operating guidelines. Any MABAS department can go to another (across state lines) and talk to each other and operate, in general, the same way. To completely understand, you have to experience it.

If you're ever up in the Chicago Metro area, you might want to monitor IFERN instead of 154.280.

 

[AK9R]

The irony here is that while SAFE-T was designed to allow for ineroperability, we must use our VHF frequencies in order to communicate with our mutual aid departments across the state line. Installing Illinois talk groups in our radios is a very complex procedure from what I understand and it is a whole lot easier to operate like we have, frequency wise, for many years.

I won't disagree that interoperability is fairly easy to achieve with conventional, simplex VHF channels--a point that seems to have been lost on folks as they charge ahead with expensive, complex, infrastructure-based solutions to the interoperability problem.

However, have you and your fellow agencies on the other side of the line looked at the possibility of using the NPSPAC channels? This is a nationwide set of interoperable channels on VHF, UHF, and 800MHz. They can be used either simplex or through a repeater in conventional, non-trunked, mode. When I had a SAFE-T radio, it had the NSPAC channels programmed into it right along with the SAFE-T and MECA trunked talkgroups.

 

[KidClerk]

It has been discussed but as of now, my fire dept. does not have those programmed in our radios. The county we would respond to for mutual aid, Iroquois, is not on 800Mhz yet. Two departments to my north respond to assist Kankakee County who is on a conventional 800Mhz system. As I understand it, one department has managed to get that county's talkgroups/frequencies programmed in their radios. I don't believe the other has. Of course, we were handed these radios that were purchased for us with no ability to offer suggestions on how they should be programmed.

I won't disagree that interoperability is fairly easy to achieve with conventional, simplex VHF channels--a point that seems to have been lost on folks as they charge ahead with expensive, complex, infrastructure-based solutions to the interoperability problem.

However, have you and your fellow agencies on the other side of the line looked at the possibility of using the NPSPAC channels? This is a nationwide set of interoperable channels on VHF, UHF, and 800MHz. They can be used either simplex or through a repeater in conventional, non-trunked, mode. When I had a SAFE-T radio, it had the NSPAC channels programmed into it right along with the SAFE-T and MECA trunked talkgroups.

 

[shauno]

Lake County, IN is the most recent member of MABAS. It is Division 207. Although it is very new, created in Oct 2009, it has gained a lot of momentum. It's members include just about every fire department in Lake County, with the obvious exception of Gary, Hammond, EC, Whiting and a few other volunteer departments up north. MABAS has 8 frequencies available, 6 fireground channels (color-coded red, blue, white, gold, black, gray) and 2 coordination/alerting channels (IFERN & IFERN 2). Crown Point will probably be the primary dispatch center once the equipment is installed. Another great part about MABAS is the policy/procedures. Once you sign into MABAS, you agree to adjust/change your departments SOG's to that of MABAS sog's. Bottom line, everybody is talking on the same channel and operating within the same sog's at the same incident. Every department has box cards that cover every incident. Box cards start at a Still Alarm, Working Still, Box Alarm, then 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th alarms.

MABAS 207 already has a divisional dive team, TRT team and about 12 active departments, with more to come aboard in 2010. The only other active division in Indiana is St. Joseph County (Division 201).

I have heard that Porter County is coming on board with MABAS as Division 209....is this true?

 

[70cutlass442]

Way to bring this back from the dead but im curious how MABAS is going in your areas... Im in Wisconsin and it is gaining momentum here... I think the biggest issue is people dont know how/ when to use it, or when/how to use the different channels... including dispatch. I will say they have gotten better...... but our countys VHF over lay will pickup traffic form IL, (mainly Chicago suburbs) and those guys have got it figured out and are very smooth when utilizing the MABAS system.....

 

[h00sierdaddy]

I have heard that Porter County is coming on board with MABAS as Division 209....is this true?

209 (aka Porter County) is only a mabas division on paper. They've got their three departments to form a division, but no progression since then, from what I've noticed. 207 (Lake County) has been very active in their short existence, about 12 or 13 departments in less than 2 years. Hear them all the time in IFERN and using the mabas fireground channels. Pretty cool

 

[nwiscan]

FWIW, in Munster (lake county) the mutual aid chatter with the southside IL departments that I figured was the MABAS station actually come over the standard Munster FD frequency.