Mammoth/June Mtn Ski Areas Comm System Change

[es93546]

The communications system for Mammoth Mountain has changed. Last summer in an article in the Mammoth Times discussing the upcoming improvements to the ski area it was stated that a $25 million replacement of the communications system was going to be made. I looked up any FCC license changes and found WRQE598 had been issued with 20 new assignments for the ski area. I didn't think they would make the switch during the current ski season, however, around December 15th I was listening to the old system with no problems. When the annual ski, groomer, fireworks show called the "Night of Lights" of December 17th occurred I turned it on to listen to the activities and nothing came over the old system. I did a search of the old licensed frequencies and found two with data signals. The new system includes two sites, one at the top of "Lincoln Mountain" and one at the top of Chair 12. From my location in town one data signal is strong and one is a little weaker, which corresponds to the two locations quite well, Lincoln Mountain is easily visible from the upstairs of my home and Chair 12 has some topography blocking it.

I have no idea what type the new system is. I have no experience with what those of you in big cities have been monitoring for years, that is DMR, Mototbro, NXDN, etc. I'm not as sharp as I used to be so it might take me all winter to figure out this new system. Any help from those of you who travel up here for winter sports would be much appreciated. In the meantime the RR database listing for Mammoth Mountain is invalid.

 

[es93546]

As for June Mtn. Ski Area I haven't traveled up there since last winter season (2021/2022) to monitor it. At the time they were using some frequencies not being used on the old trunking system. I appeared they were using a number of conventional repeaters for the various functions/departments on the mountain. I would seem logical that since the two areas have the same ownership that a system where only one radio would be required for both areas would be installed, but that is unknown at this time.

 

[Firebuff880]

Motorola MOTOTRBO DMR Tier-III Capacity Max System.

 

[danieljkim]

es93546 thanks for posting, - I thought I was crazy as I was listening in on the ski patrol frequencies with no problem when I was up just 2 weeks ago, but during Christmas everything was silent. At least it makes sense. If anyone figures out the new system, please post!

 

[es93546]

Motorola MOTOTRBO DMR Tier-III Capacity Max System.

Does the emission portion of the license tell you this or do you have direct knowledge of the type of system being used? I met a comm system vendor for breakfast one morning about 20 years ago. His firm was in the Thousand Oaks, CA area and he was helping the ski area with a comm system for their lodging properties. His first name is Bob, do you know if he is the one who installed the new system?

The fact that the system is DMR limits me to just my BCD325P2 and makes all my other scanners obsolete for listening to this ski area. I'm not at all fond of my 325P2, which is at least my 3rd disappointment with a Uniden scanner in the last 22 years. I wish GRE was still in business, their scanners were much more user friendly or intuitive if you will. They also prioritized having a scanner with a small size and didn't consider the bulk of all the spare batteries you have to carry. It only operates for about 3-4 hours, even with the light traffic on our rural area systems.

 

[es93546]

es93546 thanks for posting, - I thought I was crazy as I was listening in on the ski patrol frequencies with no problem when I was up just 2 weeks ago, but during Christmas everything was silent. At least it makes sense. If anyone figures out the new system, please post!

I went back to see when I had listened to them in December. On either the 13th or 14th of December I was listening to them in my office on my BC-780, all traffic normal. Then I didn't listen for a day or two. On December 17th my wife and I, both of us past putting up with the crowds for the "Night of Lights," pulled up the Canyon Lodge camera on the ski area's website. I got my handheld PSR-500 scanner so we could listen to the coordination of the event and NOTHING for the entire couple of hours. They must have had a date of December 15th or close to it for implementing the new system.

I haven't the slightest idea of how to start figuring out a DMR system. It seems as though the data channels are all from the old set of frequencies. That is all I have at this point.

 

[es93546]

es93546 thanks for posting, - I thought I was crazy as I was listening in on the ski patrol frequencies with no problem when I was up just 2 weeks ago, but during Christmas everything was silent. At least it makes sense. If anyone figures out the new system, please post!

You and I are among a small number of skiers who likes to listen to ski area's comm systems while on the hill. I find it particularly useful in avoiding chairs that go down or have a huge line at them. It also warns you of the locations of accidents and subsequent congestion as well as a slow toboggan carrying injured on the trail below you.

I'll try to stretch this compromised mind of mine and learn something new while getting this system figured out. I also want to get up to June Lake and listen to June Mtn. for a period of time to see what they are using. I only had a couple of hours last year on the day they were closing and didn't figure out what frequency was used for the different functions that need their own channels, i.e. patrol, lift maintenance, lift ops, grooming and ski school.

 

[danieljkim]

You and I are among a small number of skiers who likes to listen to ski area's comm systems while on the hill. I find it particularly useful in avoiding chairs that go down or have a huge line at them. It also warns you of the locations of accidents and subsequent congestion as well as a slow toboggan carrying injured on the trail below you.

I'll try to stretch this compromised mind of mine and learn something new while getting this system figured out. I also want to get up to June Lake and listen to June Mtn. for a period of time to see what they are using. I only had a couple of hours last year on the day they were closing and didn't figure out what frequency was used for the different functions that need their own channels, i.e. patrol, lift maintenance, lift ops, grooming and ski school.

Thanks again, and agree. A few years ago when they had that big avalanche that came through base of Chair 5, I heard it on the scanner, and knew things were going down and was able to jump on the shuttle bus to get back to main. Everyone else had no idea what was going on. es93546, you aren't by chance Sierra Lady's husband?

 

[es93546]

Thanks again, and agree. A few years ago when they had that big avalanche that came through base of Chair 5, I heard it on the scanner, and knew things were going down and was able to jump on the shuttle bus to get back to main. Everyone else had no idea what was going on. es93546, you aren't by chance Sierra Lady's husband?

There are a lot of people here in the eastern Sierra so I don't know the person you refer to.

 

[crush1]

I was occasionally listening too and noticed the old system went dead, at first I thought it was just an outage. DMR is new to me but I'm able to listen now again after purchasing the DMR upgrade ($60) for my bcd436hp.

you need to program all the 85x.xxxx frequencies and set audio type to digital only (I'd recommend skipping the control channel(s), I think 854.8625)

DMR Frequency Search Results use this and search for mono county in CA for the list and you'll see the channels.

programming these frequencies you can hear everything as before you just don't know what is what (but is kind of obvious and the may jump around a bit). most of the traffic doesn't have talkgroups/unit ids but some does.

If one were the figure out the LCN's for the system it would probably be the right way to program it in as a trunked system but this other way works.

a few days ago patrol was active on 855.5125

if somebody figures out the proper way to program please post.

hope this helps

 

[es93546]

I was occasionally listening too and noticed the old system went dead, at first I thought it was just an outage. DMR is new to me but I'm able to listen now again after purchasing the DMR upgrade ($60) for my bcd436hp.

you need to program all the 85x.xxxx frequencies and set audio type to digital only (I'd recommend skipping the control channel(s), I think 854.8625)

DMR Frequency Search Results use this and search for mono county in CA for the list and you'll see the channels.

programming these frequencies you can hear everything as before you just don't know what is what (but is kind of obvious and the may jump around a bit). most of the traffic doesn't have talkgroups/unit ids but some does.

If one were the figure out the LCN's for the system it would probably be the right way to program it in as a trunked system but this other way works.

a few days ago patrol was active on 855.5125

if somebody figures out the proper way to program please post.

hope this helps

Thanks for the link to that website. I suspected the others to be DMRs, but I don't live near them so I haven't tried to listen to them, although the goal is to listen to everything as I travel about the eastern Sierra Region. I've had the frequencies from the new license for months now, but I made the assumption that they would not cut over to a new system until the end of this ski season. I listened to the old system on December 14th, but didn't have the need to listen to it again until December 17th, for the annual "Night of Lights" event when the old system drew a total blank. Right during the busiest time of the year they cut over to the new system.

I'm not at all sharp at all anymore - if someone could help figure out this system it would be greatly appreciated. I've never even programmed a DMR system from the database into my BCD-325P2.

 

[crush1]

This may help, I'm not sure if you've paid for the DMR upgrade yet, that would be step #1 if you want to be able to listen. https://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/DigitalMobileRadioUpgradeforBCDxxxP2

 

[officer_415]

Does the emission portion of the license tell you this or do you have direct knowledge of the type of system being used?

The emission designators 7K60FXD/7K60FXE indicate 2-slot DMR (Motorola MOTOTRBO) TDMA data/voice.

FCC Callsign WRQE598 (Mammoth Mountain Ski)

FCC Callsign WRQE598 (Mammoth Mountain Ski)

www.radioreference.com

 

[inigo88]

Maybe you guys can help us narrow down the likely system type. If you program all the old trunking system frequencies into your scanner:

1. What is the digital audio type? - Sounds like both based on the FCC license and actual monitoring, we’ve narrowed it down to DMR.

2. Is it a conventional or trunking system? What type?

You can get a general idea of this based on whether there is a control channel on one of the system frequencies which is continuously operating, or whether you only hear bursts of data with silence in between.

- Do you hear bursts of data only?

This is probably conventional MotoTRBO, or MotoTRBO Capacity Plus trunking.

- Are the bursts very occasional but long? (5 sec or so). Might be a conventional repeater.

- Are the bursts short but happen frequently (about every 2 seconds)? This is probably Capacity Plus trunking, and what you’re hearing is the “rest channel.”

- Is the control channel continuous, similar to the older Motorola Type II system? You’ve found either a MotoTRBO Connect Plus system, or a DMR Tier III (Motorola Capacity Max) system.

 

[crush1]

My scanner shows DT3 when hearing transmissions which I think narrows it?

Per Uniden's page.

• DT3 -- for DMR Tier III Trunked system. The scanner will also display the current slot number (S1 or S2) and the received color code.

 

[officer_415]

@crush1 does your Uniden display any system info, like color code/RAN or system type (DMR, Cap+, Con+, DMRT3)?

 

[crush1]

it displays DT3 in the bottom right, color code, and slot #, and TG: and U: (mostly 0 & 0, but some have details)

 

[officer_415]

My scanner shows DT3 when hearing transmissions which I think narrows it?

Per Uniden's page.

• DT3 -- for DMR Tier III Trunked system. The scanner will also display the current slot number (S1 or S2) and the received color code.

Oops you beat me to it. If you could post a list of talkgroups and frequencies/color codes you're seeing that would be helpful.

Someone is probably going to have to run DSD+ to figure out the system completely, but you can at least start to identify the talkgroups.

 

[crush1]

Think there was a moderation delay there. I think the software would be helpful...

Not sure this list is exhaustive but here we go.

I believe it's all been on color 0

854.8625 (control?)
854.9375 net1 site 5, not on the FCC page for new system but is an old system frequency, this is digital though as the rest.

rest on net 1 site 2. these all appear as location 1 (Iincoln mtn) on the FCC page for the new system.
855.1625
855.3375
855.5125
855.7625
855.9375
856.3125

Observed TG's, mostly 0
1003,1009,1012,1015, 1017, 1020, 1027, 1035,1036 (some TGs seem to be talking to each other, like was the same group, but different radios setup differently)

 

[officer_415]

854.9375 net1 site 5, not on the FCC page for new system but is an old system frequency, this is digital though as the rest.

Looks like this freq was on the old system, licensed under WQSY321.