MDC1200 on TK-8180/3180

[Honda-ST1300PA]

I have both a TK-8180 mobile and 3180 portable UHF 450-520 MHz radios. I installed the VGS-1 voice guided storage pcb into each and they work great. It’s wonderful to get the voice prompt for the push buttons and 30 second recording of the last radio call. Recently I also enabled the MDC1200 options via the 89D programming software. The problem is, that both Kenwood radios can post PTT-ID onto their LCD from the Motorola XTS 3000-II Astro Saber UHF 450-520 MHz radio I also have, but not the reverse. Neither Kenwood can post PTT-ID onto their LCD from each other, or over to the Moto XTS3000. Its as if I have this half way working (can receive but not transmit MDC1200 on a Kenwood).

Is there a firmware update that’s required (Since they post from the Moto with MDC1200, it seems like an update isn’t necessary)

Maybe it’s the timing settings need to be different than the default values in the 89D VGS-1 option page’s settings?

Help me Obi Wan Kanobe

 

[Honda-ST1300PA]

Researching the forums here, I found this closed thread from 2005:
http://forums.radioreference.com/threads/mdc-1200-signaling.106581/

It suggests this:
“It's not in the MDC-1200 options menu. Go to the OPTIONAL FEATURES menu and click the CONVENTIONAL tab. You have to set the MUTE HOLD TIME (ms). And in order to set it to catch the Post-PTT ID, it will have to be set pretty high for those who are long winded.

You can also have a PTT PAUSE TIME which ceases the ID from YOUR radio for a certain amount of seconds from the end of the first transmit period. That you set under COMMON PAGE 3 where you set the PTT ID TYPE. It's pretty cool. I have mine set for 30 sec. And after my first transmit, it won't send a PTT ID for 30 sec.”

I will try setting the Mute Hold Time to a higher number than the default. But that seems to me a receiving setting, not a transmitting setting, yes?

Other than that, any other insights to solve this problem on sending PPT-ID from the Kenwood radios?

Last edited: May 18, 2009

 

[Honda-ST1300PA]

This thread says you have to have the latest firmware, and I believe I do, that’s how I got the PTT-ID to post onto the Kenwoods. Here’s the thread:

http://forums.radioreference.com/threads/mdc-decode-on-kenwoods.170662/

“The Latest firmware is V 1.20, The MDC firmware introductory version is 1.18. It shows as being for the 2180/3180/7180/8180. You need KPG-89D V 1.60 to be able to use the MDC1200 features.”

 

[Honda-ST1300PA]

This guys problem sounds like mine:
http://forums.radioreference.com/threads/mdc-decode-on-kenwoods.170662/#post-1278782

“Hello, perhaps one of you can help me a little here. I have TK-xx80 series radio. Have the latest firmware installed in radio (v1.21), programming software (v1.60). Trying to get the MDC encode to work. Have the decode working as I like, but can not get the encode to transmit the MDC ID. What am I missing? In the "Model Information" tab signaling set to MDC-1200. I appreciate any help.”

The solution offered was:
“In zone information window, click on channel edit. Set PTT ID to beginning or end of transmission.” - Ramal121

I’ll have to check this out.

 

[Honda-ST1300PA]

after editing the Zone Information/Channel Edit/PTT ID field to "Both", I can now hear the Kenwood 3180 make its MDC1200 preamble tweet...

Good news: (thanks Ramal121 for the post from another thread)
- The 3180 now posts PPT-ID to the 8180 and that was my primary goal (kenwood to kenwood)
- The Moto xts3k has been able to post to the kenwoods, so thats part of my secondary goal (Moto to Kenwoods)

Bad news:
- The receiving Moto XTS3000 makes a really short MDC1200 response tone, but does not post PTT-ID. (kenwood to moto)

While I did set up MDC1200 on the Moto with the PTT-ID value same as on the Kenwoods, something is still not right. Im thinking the problem is on the Moto side of the programming now. Maybe the PTT-ID has to be set up differently on receive or theres some timing setting that needs tweaking?

Help is appreciated.

 

[datainmotion]

Just a thought - did you give each their own unique MDC ID?

 

[Honda-ST1300PA]

Same ID on each radio, cause they are all me?
Seems to work Kenwood to Kenwood.

So i carry two radios, mobile on the bike and portable on my person. You saying use different ID for each radio, but same text. Yes?


I found this on the CS site,
(My CPS tool does not have a his “PTT-ID” page that has a “ID display” check box.)
Xts3000 conventional astro Talkgroups

 

[Honda-ST1300PA]

Apparently I will need flashcode that includes the “H14 - “Enhanced Caller ID" feature.

Next, is where do I get this firmware?

 

[Honda-ST1300PA]

So tonight I assigned each of the 3 radios their own ID and associated unique text alias. So now I can see which radio is transmitting it’s PTT-ID. Still, the Motorola can Tx it’s PPT-ID, but not receive one. Goes back to the missing H14 option.

 

[Honda-ST1300PA]

OK...
So the key (literally and figuratively) is a tool called FDB which unlocks the features wanted that are already in the firmware on the radio, assuming the correct firmware is already on it.

 

[datainmotion]

And to think that MDC decode display used to be standard. Must be only on certain models, because my XPR6550 and HT1250 do it just fine.

 

[KK6ZTE]

Motorola has it as an option, especially on that ancient brick of an XTS 3000. Some HT1250s don't have it either.

 

[Honda-ST1300PA]

That “brick”, sends PPT-ID text alias correctly to the Kenwoods, once they are configured for MDC1200. The XTS3K if configured with the H14 option, can receive the Kenwood MDC1200 PTT-ID as the unique 4-digit call ID that is mapped to the PTT-ID text alias.

 

[KK6ZTE]

There is no "sending" an alias. All that is sent is a four digit hex PTT ID. The aliasing is done in the radio.

If your radio can decode and display aliases, then there will be a table to correspond the transmitted ID to a text alias.

The Kenwood radios will decode and display caller ID with the 1.22 firmware. With the correct option, the XTS 3000 will as well. However, your Motorola questions really need to go to the Motorola forum for visibility. That said, the MDC alias table is under Conventional->MDC->MDC Call List. Add the PTT ID and whatever text you want to display to that table. I'm not sure where you got "conventional talkgroups" from.

 

[Honda-ST1300PA]

I am told that even with the H14 option on the Moto XTS 3K, that the PTT-ID alias does not come up even if define in the table, rather only the 4 digit radio ID displays. That being said, one can use the caller menu to see who that 4 digit ID is. When I get my radio set up with H14, I will know first hand.

 

[Honda-ST1300PA]

I got the Moto XTS 3K posting their ID (but not alias) to each other as ling as they are equipped with the H14 option and configured for MDC signaling. They also send this ID and alias to the Kenwood TK-x180 radios which can display both.

What doesnt work yet, is the Kenwood PTT-ID and alias over to the Motos. They do however to other Kenwoods setup for MDC signaling (not Fleetsync).

 

[KK6ZTE]

Again, the alias is NOT sent over the air. ONLY the four digit ID is sent over the air.

This is why I get paid good money to go update MDC ID tables on EACH RADIO whenever police departments get a new hire. The alias is stored on the radio and the radio has a table to compare the two.

If the table doesn't exist in the radio or the radio cannot display enhanced MDC ID (the alias) you won't get it to display the alias on the radio.

Again, the alias is NOT sent over the air. ONLY the four digit ID is sent over the air.

 

[Honda-ST1300PA]

Yes, no Caller ID text alias between Motos, got it. Thought the last post (#16) was clear on this. Sorry if not.

Now, the two XTS3K UHF 520 MHZ radios I have with H14 (Display&Menu/PTT ID menu) can now pass their Primary ID when the PTT. button is held in for a couple of seconds or more (does not for a quick click).

The one radio (from Canada and is UHF 470MHZ) without H14 can send it’s Primary ID, but not receive others (as expected). Again, the audio Tx/Rx works great across all 3 Motos (XTS3K) and 3 Kenwoods (TK-8180, 3180, 3160).

All 3 XTS radio’s can successfully send and display their Primary ID and Call ID alias onto the Kenwoods TK-x180 UHF 520 MHZ radios.

The remaining missing piece to this MDC interoperability puzzle, is that the Kenwoods IDs do not post/display on any of the Motos. Maybe they cant. Thats what Im asking about now.

Heres an example of the radio ID being passed between XTS motos (no alias):

 

[KK6ZTE]

It seems your issue is strictly Motorola. I suggest posting in the Motorola forum. I have an XTS3000 file on my Windows XP programming PC at work that isn’t internet connected so I’ll double check the options on it.

At this point it’s an issue of no caller ID display on your XTS3000. It’s not a Kenwood / Motorola interoperability issue.

See:

https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/motorola-xts3000-cps-id-display.150970/

 

[Honda-ST1300PA]

“At this point it’s an issue of no caller ID display on your XTS3000. It’s not a Kenwood / Motorola interoperability issue.”

Care to expand on this statement? Not sure what exactly you’re saying apart what I already know about Motos not displaying Caller ID except as a look up table. Again, the problem from my POV is the lack of MDC1200 ID info displaying on the Motos sent by the Kenwoods.

Yes, I’ve read this link and it is correct from what I’ve seen. I don’t quite get the last post about “old analog displays not able to post IDs.” “Old” is a bit vague. Did you get what that was saying?

Two of the three XTS radios I have, are H14 enabled and thus can and do display the primary/unit radio 4 digit ID when Tx/Rx between these two Motos. (The non H14 moto can send but not receive/display on its LCD, of course).

The Kenwoods can receive and display both the Motos Primary ID and Caller test alias. Unfortunately, their PTT-ID data when transmitted to the Motos is not received and displayed. Nothing.

However, the Kenwoods can Tx/Rx their MDC1200 PTT-ID information and successfully display them on each other, plus the before and after tones work fine.

Now, the Kenwood tones are not picked up on the Motos. This may be a hint of what’s not working. Maybe it’s the MDC timing settings on the Kenwoods isn’t good for the Motos, but the reverse works.

In summary:
Good: Kenwood <=> Kenwood. (Primary ID and Caller Alias)
Good: Moto w/H14 <=> Moto. (Primary ID only)
Good: Moto w/H14 => Kenwood (Primary ID and Caller Alias)
Bad: Kenwood => Moto w/H14 (nothing displays)

So, the Kenwoods work nicely with each other. The Motos with H14 advanced LCD display option work nicely together. As intended I’m sure. The issues surface going cross platform where only half of it works. This is what I mean as interoperability.

Who knows if either Kenwood or Moto ever intended or tested these to work outside their own platform. One might think MDC1200 would be an interoperable communications protocol, but how it gets implemented and configured by each platform may be a grey no mans land - due to the many variables involved: firmware, programming s/w, GUI, timing and signaling settings, channel/frequency setup, etc.

Am I the first to try and communicate this MDC cross platform application?