Mid-Atlantic MilAir 2023

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BM82557

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USAF F-15E's hard at work off the UK RAF Lakentheath earlier this past evening at Sunset..
Teddy Bear got nice vid of 4 unrestricted climb outs. Gets them up above cloud deck in a hurry :)


I noticed that 2 of the F-15's had only 1 of the engine inlets pivoted while taxing while the other 2 had both pivoted. I wonder why that was --

Screenshot - 12_3_2023 , 7_10_18 AM.pngScreenshot - 12_3_2023 , 7_07_33 AM.png
 

TerryPavlick

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Lockheed wants the new possible Navy E-6B to be EC-130J type that has has 4 engines.. I can see that possibly but I think USAF will want 4 engine fast high altitude jet to be a new E-4B type like you say... Boeing will get this eventually on their terms even if Pentagon drops 4 engine
mandate. I don't see why a Boeing 777 type which can fly on one engine couldn't be a replacement. :)

Article below says Pax River may get Lockheed E-6B replacement test bed in 2026.
This Is Our First Look At The Navy’s Next 'Doomsday Plane,' The EC-130J TACAMO

RCH-268 C-17 #09-9206 from Charleston inbound Dover for uploads on Dover CP 349.400
Well one reason that a 777 won't work (besides no fail safe if the other engine fails) is power generation. Four engines with CSDs and other power generating devices provides more power than two engines with the same configuration. While mission completion (making sure you are still airborne - easier with four engines) the ultimate requirement is power to not only run the communications and other equipment on board but the power needed to cool those same components.
 

Mark

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Well one reason that a 777 won't work (besides no fail safe if the other engine fails) is power generation. Four engines with CSDs and other power generating devices provides more power than two engines with the same configuration. While mission completion (making sure you are still airborne - easier with four engines) the ultimate requirement is power to not only run the communications and other equipment on board but the power needed to cool those same components.
The Navy P-8A has two engine setup with lots of power hungry appliances... :)

Overseas RCH-890 KC-10 departed Glasgow but seems to have turned around and is rtb.

There are news reports a US Navy destroyer and commercial boats have come under attack near Yemen.
Pentagon will release news later.Maybe KC-10 told to rtb at this time.
1701624325602.png
 
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MUTNAV

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Lockheed wants the new possible Navy E-6B to be EC-130J type that has has 4 engines.. I can see that possibly but I think USAF will want 4 engine fast high altitude jet to be a new E-4B type like you say... Boeing will get this eventually on their terms even if Pentagon drops 4 engine
mandate. I don't see why a Boeing 777 type which can fly on one engine couldn't be a replacement. :)

Article below says Pax River may get Lockheed E-6B replacement test bed in 2026.
This Is Our First Look At The Navy’s Next 'Doomsday Plane,' The EC-130J TACAMO

RCH-268 C-17 #09-9206 from Charleston inbound Dover for uploads on Dover CP 349.400
I'm pretty sure that is not how it will work,

Things have to fail with another company first, possibly bankrupt them (The only company wanting to compete is Sierra Nevada Corp), then after much wringing of hands and money spent, everyone will decide a KC-46 without the tanker mods removed) will do fine, with a command and control suite added.

It worked with the 707's being "looking glass".


I'd love for them to bring back the old designation or NEACP (Knee Cap).

Thanks
Joel
 
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MUTNAV

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The Navy P-8A has two engine setup with lots of power hungry appliances... :)

Overseas RCH-890 KC-10 departed Glasgow but seems to have turned around and is rtb.

There are news reports a US Navy destroyer and commercial boats have come under attack near Yemen.
Pentagon will release news later.Maybe KC-10 told to rtb at this time.
View attachment 152310
If they really need more power they can do the ECM jammer techniques of putting a little windmill / propeller on the front of a pod, :).

Thanks
Joel
 

Dutchmil

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Interesting video about fly-overs .... :)
Nice informative video I think, pity about the commercial adds in between .... :rolleyes:

RAF KC2 Voyager (ZZ337) arrived this afternoon at Kansas City International Airport [KMCI] as RRR9280.

Apparently it should be supporting fighters (F-35s ?) over the Atlantic next week, anyone with more info ?

Thanks,

René
https://twitter.com/CoronetEast
 

Mark

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Nice informative video I think, pity about the commercial adds in between .... :rolleyes:

RAF KC2 Voyager (ZZ337) arrived this afternoon at Kansas City International Airport [KMCI] as RRR9280.

Apparently it should be supporting fighters (F-35s ?) over the Atlantic next week, anyone with more info ?

Thanks,

René
https://twitter.com/CoronetEast
Flightaware has departure from Kansas City at 06:00AM EST 1100z Monday to Lajes.
That sounds like typical RAF F-35B delivery stop.
 

RaleighGuy

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On Tuesday, December 5th, the President will travel to the Greater Boston area of Massachusetts. No announcement on exact location of visit.

The arrival will be at Boston Logan International Airport, Massport Operations Building Boston Logan International Airport 164 Harborside Drive East Boston around 10am, actual time TBA.
 

RaleighGuy

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Official version just released, adds a little clarification for Vegas/LA trip, appears FLOTUS skipping Vegas and going straight to LA before returning to Wilmington on Sunday.

WEEK AHEAD GUIDANCE FOR THE WEEK OF DECEMBER 4, 2023 – DECEMBER 10, 2023

Tuesday, December 5, 2023
The President will travel to the greater Boston area of Massachusetts.
The President will participate in three campaign receptions in the greater Boston area of Massachusetts.
The President will return to the White House.

Friday, December 8, 2023
The President will travel to Las Vegas, Nevada.
The President will deliver remarks in Las Vegas, Nevada.
The President will depart Las Vegas, Nevada en route to Los Angeles, California.
The President and the First Lady will participate in a campaign reception in Los Angeles, California.

Saturday, December 9, 2023
The President and the First Lady will participate in a campaign reception in Los Angeles, California.

Sunday, December 10, 2023
The President and the First Lady will depart Los Angeles, California en route to Wilmington, Delaware.
 

MUTNAV

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but how many kilowatts of power does that generate ?
based on an An/ALQ-99 power output, greater than 10 Kw per turbine

According to the ever reliable wikipedia, an EA-18G growler can carry five of the pods

Other little windmill things on airplanes.


Also from Wikipedia

The Airbus A380 has the largest RAT in the world at 1.63 metres (64 in) in diameter, but around 80 centimetres (31 in) is more common. A typical large RAT on a commercial aircraft can be capable of producing 5 to 70 kW, depending on the generator. Smaller, low airspeed models may generate as little as 400 watts.


As a side note, sometimes the Ram air turbines are used to power refueling pods (so they are more self contained).


Also as a side note, a large constantly run APU could probably work also, but that would be boring.:(
Thanks
Joel
 
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TerryPavlick

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based on an An/ALQ-99 power output, greater than 10 Kw per turbine

According to the ever reliable wikipedia, an EA-18G growler can carry five of the pods

Other little windmill things on airplanes.


Also from Wikipedia

The Airbus A380 has the largest RAT in the world at 1.63 metres (64 in) in diameter, but around 80 centimetres (31 in) is more common. A typical large RAT on a commercial aircraft can be capable of producing 5 to 70 kW, depending on the generator. Smaller, low airspeed models may generate as little as 400 watts.


As a side note, sometimes the Ram air turbines are used to power refueling pods (so they are more self contained).


Also as a side note, a large constantly run APU could probably work also, but that would be boring.:(
Thanks
Joel
Insignificant compared to even commercial airliner power requirements. See this article. Generators on aircraft engines are rated at kVA versus KW. As you can see the A320 requires two generators (IDG) while most newer and more power demanding large aircraft use Variable Frequency Starter-Generators (VFSGs). As per the article, a Boeing 787 uses four VFSGs each generating 250 kVA each for a total of 1000 kVA (not including the APU) while the A380 uses four VFSGs (plus one each in the two APUs). Since it is known that each engine on the E4B has two generators (not including the two APUs), that would be 8 times 250 kVA or 2000 kVA.

And those are civilian airliners not military - so the power requirements are tremendous. Its kind of crazy - the generators have gotten heavier while the brake assemblies have gotten lighter (of course carbon brakes versus steel saves a lot of weight).


Here is some data on commercial aircraft APUs (Auxiliary Power Units).

 

MUTNAV

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Insignificant compared to even commercial airliner power requirements. See this article. Generators on aircraft engines are rated at kVA versus KW. As you can see the A320 requires two generators (IDG) while most newer and more power demanding large aircraft use Variable Frequency Starter-Generators (VFSGs). As per the article, a Boeing 787 uses four VFSGs each generating 250 kVA each for a total of 1000 kVA (not including the APU) while the A380 uses four VFSGs (plus one each in the two APUs). Since it is known that each engine on the E4B has two generators (not including the two APUs), that would be 8 times 250 kVA or 2000 kVA.

And those are civilian airliners not military - so the power requirements are tremendous. Its kind of crazy - the generators have gotten heavier while the brake assemblies have gotten lighter (of course carbon brakes versus steel saves a lot of weight).


Here is some data on commercial aircraft APUs (Auxiliary Power Units).

Great.... Hopefully a new aircraft can get by with two engines...

Thanks
Joel
 
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