Monroe County, PA P25 Phase 1 system coming

[SyntorX]

Just to clear up the confusion. The new trunking system will be P25 Phase II from the start. Phase I trunking will not be implemented at any time. A P25 Phase II simulcast system using LSM has about the same propagation and simulcast overlap properties as an analog system. This is accomplished using linear amplifiers in the base stations

 

[smorris]

Just to clear up the confusion. The new trunking system will be P25 Phase II from the start. Phase I trunking will not be implemented at any time. A P25 Phase II simulcast system using LSM has about the same propagation and simulcast overlap properties as an analog system. This is accomplished using linear amplifiers in the base stations

When I spoke to Gary last year, he explained the system would be P25 Phase 2 capable, but would operate using Phase 1. He wasn’t sure when they would be using the Phase 2. It seems we’re getting conflicting info.

 

[SyntorX]

That was the case last year but as of now it will be a Phase II system from the start with 12 sites.

 

[maus92]

The two largest jurisdictions in our state run P25P2 systems. The keep their main FD zones in FDMA mode, while their police and other agencies are TDMA. Note that both jurisdictions have the channel resources to support this structure; another jurisdiction may not have access to the required number of frequencies.

 

[GTR8000]

There is absolutely no reason to build out a brand new TDMA capable P25 system in today's day and age, and not go full TDMA from the start, especially when all new subscribers will be TDMA capable as well. It's a waste of precious channel resources to allow FDMA. If neighboring agencies need to operate on the system, they'll have to make sure that they have the proper equipment to do so. This system has been planned for quite a while now, giving agencies plenty of time to budget for new equipment.

 

[maus92]

Getting other jurisdictions to get with the program is problematic, to wit the situation with MD's Eastern Shore counties hosted on the state's P25P2 system and Delaware fire companies running mutual aid. It's only now that Delaware has provided enough TDMA radios to mitigate the channel loading issues on border sites - it's only taken 9 years, lol. The state's standard site config is a 6-pack with two channels licensed for DDM. Maryland had to transfer licensing from other sites that did not require 2 FDMA channels to add a 3rd DDM channel license to several border sites, and Motorola discounted software upgrades for compatible Delaware radios to "speed" the process. They still get random FDMA radios from time to time.

 

[GTR8000]

Frankly, that's why you do what is best for your own jurisdiction, and let others adapt. Yes that sounds harsh and counter to "interoperability", but we all know that the reality is that P25 is hardly the model for interoperability...conventional analog is. So if you're building out your own system, do what you need to do for your own users. In most cases when TDMA is part of the plan, that means not wasting money on DDM licensing, and not wasting precious spectrum on FDMA. You go with TDMA strapped talkgroups from Day 1, and let others buy the proper radios, instead of dragging you down for potentially years by promising to upgrade to TDMA subscribers. There will always be clowns out there who insist on using their 15 year old out-of-tune FDMA subscribers on an otherwise TDMA system. I'm glad to see that other systems in the region have taken that hard line, including the PA-STARNet ASTRO 25 system. TDMA or GTFO.

 

[SyntorX]

I agree, TDMA from the start at this point or GTFO. It's a waste of spectrum to run a system in FDMA. Also, The Monroe P25 system will not be a Motorola system.

 

[maus92]

Every surrounding county resources are going to need some additional portables it seems, as none of them are currently operating a P25 system, except for maybe Luzerne (in the future.)

 

[GTR8000]

Every surrounding county resources are going to need some additional portables it seems, as none of them are currently operating a P25 system, except for maybe Luzerne (in the future.)

You're making the assumption that these agencies don't already have multi-band radios that will be capable of operating on the system. I'm certain that they were all made keenly aware of what is coming.

 

[SyntorX]

Many existing analog systems are going to remain on the air for some time. The current IOP channel is a P25/Analog conventional dual mode channel for this purpose as well. When the system is first commissioned there will be console patches in place between the new talkgroups and the analog resources the trunking system will replace to assist in the transition.

 

[maus92]

You're making the assumption that these agencies don't already have multi-band radios that will be capable of operating on the system. I'm certain that they were all made keenly aware of what is coming.

Lol, the multiband radios always see to go to the chief's buggies. I guess you have more faith in organizations preparing ahead of time, instead of when the issue slaps them in the face.

 

[GTR8000]

I never said I had faith in anyone. I'm painfully well aware of how things work in the real world. My point is that the county needs to worry about the county, and everyone else needs to adapt. As @SyntorX stated, the county is going to do what they can to ease the pain of the transition, which is perfectly reasonable.

 

[smorris]

In an email from Gary Hoffman from June 3, he stated they have an interoperability dual mode plan in place for the new system. In addition, they will keep some of the analog channels in place long term as Northampton, Warren, Pike , Carbon and Wayne agencies don’t have the ability to “adapt” to our new system. He also said he anticipated it would take several budget cycles to complete the project. Many of the counties volunteer agencies are having difficulty attaining funding for the new equipment and the MCCC won’t be issuing or loaning radios.

 

[W7FDX]

ADP encryption can be had very cheaply and shuts out all scanner users. Not that hard to implement in all radios on a new system.

But in order for the radios to be grant eligible they have to have AES-256. They can have ADP as well but they have to have AES-256 in the flash to be grant eligible if they're using encryption at all.

 

[smorris]

End of year update for P25 system
Sounds like they’re still trying to secure funding for the project. I haven’t heard any traffic on the P25 IOP channel since July and EMS P25 much longer than that.

https://www.monroeco911.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/p25-end-of-year-update-12-7-2021.pdf

 

[GTR8000]

Half a year later, no additional updates posted on the county's website. What's the status of this project? Seems to have stalled out, likely in no small part due to COVID.

 

[maus92]

If they are building, upgrading towers and /or hanging new antennas, those services are hard to schedule due to high demand. Plus the now typical supply chain effects on routers and other site equipment like generators.

 

[GTR8000]

If they are building, upgrading towers and /or hanging new antennas, those services are hard to schedule due to high demand. Plus the now typical supply chain effects on routers and other site equipment like generators.

Do you have any actual info on this system, or are you just throwing out generalized comments as you often do? I'm already well aware of how these things work from personal experience. What I'm looking for are specific updates on this system. Thanks.

 

[maus92]

A generalized comment like I sometimes do but based on the construction delays that we are experiencing right now on our new system (tower related) and the state's system (generator availability). So pretty damn current for the Mid Atlantic. Infer what you want.