Monroe County?

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gwessel

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Rob You better check your facts. They just had a meeting at Monroe County Community College thursday night to present the radio system to the fire departments and the general public. A close friend KC8KFW william from our Amateur radio club attended the meeting. The county can get a grant for most but has to come up with a lot of money and it has to come to a vote before they can add it to the telephone bills. There will have to be many radios purchased and towers to be built. I have a copy in my hands of friday nights Monroe Evening news telling about it. I suggest that you go to www.monroenews.com and look up the article before you tell me I don't know what I am talking about.
 

rdale

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A few months ago the following was posted right here at trunkedradio.net, as I recall it came from Monroe News:

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Monroe County officials have decided to take advantage of a $ 6 million federal grant that will allow them to join the MPSCS TRS and have signed the final paperwork last month. The expected changeover will take place by July of 2004 and will replace the VHF and UHF systems currently in place. The primary reason for joining the State Police TRS are uniformity and interoperability among all public safety agencies in the county.


Currently, police, fire, EMS, and the road commission operate on four different radio bands. By joining the MPSCS, this will place all of these public safety entities on one unified radio system, something that Monroe County has not enjoyed since the late 1950s, when they were all operating on VHF-Low band. However, 154.430 MHz will still be used as a tone-out frequency for fire and civil defense pagers.


Two new towers around 175 meters tall will be erected in the county. The first will be located in the city of Monroe, while the other will be located in the southern part of the county near the town of Samaria. The current idea is to link these towers together with the one currently in place in Dundee as a “simulcast” system, with additional coverage provided by the tower located in Flat Rock. Likewise, all of the radios will have neighboring trunked systems in Washtenaw, Wayne Counties in Michigan, and Lucas County in Ohio programmed into the mobile and handheld radios for mutual-aid communications.

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I went to the site just now to look up your story at http://www.monroenews.com/articles/2003/10/30/news/news02.txt and the story does not reflect what you've indicated in your post... Here are some excerpts:

"A $6 million federal grant awarded in September started a one-year clock on the process of joining the system, designing coverage aspects, building at least three communications towers, buying radios for every one of the emergency responder agencies, training people how to use the new equipment and implementing the system. A project timeline circulated at the meeting puts purchase of the necessary equipment in December, completion of tower construction in July and operation of the new system in August. "

""I don't know how we're going to pay for it yet," Mr. Londo said, adding that the county will seek an increase in the telephone surcharge paid for emergency communication to help supplement the costs. The Monroe County Board of Commissioners has approved placing an issue on the August ballot asking voters for an increase in the surcharge on all land lines in the county from 80 cents to as much as $3.20. Mr. Londo said the amount asked for would be adjusted to reflect the project's costs, but it still must be approved by county residents. "If the surcharge doesn't pass the board of commissioners is probably going to have to make up the difference out of it's own operating fund," Mr. Londo said. "And as you all know nothing is free. The county will be responsible for all of the initial equipment for all municipalities." "

===

So using this and the previous post I'll address yours:

"They will not have it up for a vote until Aug 2004."

Incorrect, that's a vote on getting citizens to pay for it via their phone bill.

"They need to come up with a big grant from the Govt"

No, they already have the grant.

"It will be several years before Monroe county goes 800mhz."

The timeline says operational in August 2004.

"If that fails they have a 460 mhz alternate plan."

I've not heard of that -- what does that consist of?

In any case, nothing in either of the articles indicates that this is just a long-range plan, but that it is underway. The article clearly states that if the ballot doesn't pass, the county will have to foot the bill itself and let the municipalities handle it from there.

Not trying to start a fight, but two news releases seem to be quite clear that this is happening and I'd love to see what you have that differs.

- Rob
 

Thunderbolt

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As I understand it from a good source down in Monroe County. Mr. Londo has been a strong opponent to the county joining the MPSCS TRS. Apparently, he has strong connections with a communications firm that wants to land the contract for a 460 MHz LTR system. As such, he would stand to gain a lot of money from such a deal.


Comparing the MPSCS to a an LTR system is like comparing apples and oranges and calling it the same thing when it's clearly not. I feel the interoperability benefits outweigh themselves on the MPSCS.


73's

Ron
 

rdale

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I was under the impression that MPSCS in Monroe Co was signed, sealed and delivered... Looks like tbolt's info offers hope! Rank-n-file FD users aren't excited about 800MHz digital so there may be an opening to avoid the MPSCS system.

"I feel the interoperability benefits outweigh themselves on the MPSCS."

What good is interoperability between resources if your signal can't get from the building to the tower? There's a reason that EVERY police chief and fire chief in Ingham Co signed a petition to leave MPSCS and get a 400MHz analog system. If you want any ammo on fighting for a UHF trunked system in Monroe Co, head to http://ingham.org and in the 911 committee meeting minutes you'll find plenty!

Interoperability does not require that the system be part of MPSCS. It can happen just fine without. Look at the number of UHF/VHF conventional freq's and trunked systems that are already linked to MPSCS - Clinton Co, Eaton Co, etc.

Remember that the MPSCS interoperability comes at an extreme price... Monroe Co is almost entirely volunteer:

"The county has already ascertained the number of radios it will replace. The list does not include those radios purchased by individual firefighters. "And the annual mic fees will be borne by the municipalities," he said. Those fees are $200 a radio."

Odds of a FF getting a $3,600 radio on his own and paying $200 per year on top? Or the local FD providing one? Not good. So you reduce the ability to communicate, all in the name of 'statewide interoperability.'

MPSCS is great for one thing -- talking long distances on a radio instead of cellphone. Remember that they don't guarantee portable radio coverage. How many firefigters take a mobile with them into the basement and carry some coax, a power supply and a 3/4 wave?

I've never heard a FD user promoting the usefulness of digital radios for fireground operations.

- Rob
 

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rdale said:
I was under the impression that MPSCS in Monroe Co was signed, sealed and delivered... Looks like tbolt's info offers hope! Rank-n-file FD users aren't excited about 800MHz digital so there may be an opening to avoid the MPSCS system.

Unfortunately, I think the window to avoid this system closed when the federal grant was awarded. Nobody would give up M just because we firefighters are very leary of this system.


rdale said:
Remember that they don't guarantee portable radio coverage. How many firefigters take a mobile with them into the basement and carry some coax, a power supply and a 3/4 wave?

The County claims that with the additional transmitters, there will be 95% portable coverage. I don't really believe this but I guess time will tell.

rdale said:
I've never heard a FD user promoting the usefulness of digital radios for fireground operations.

- Rob

There are plenty of horror stories out there from DCFD and FDNY regarding firefighters calling MAYDAY and nobody being able to hear them.

I'm probably going to get into trouble for posting negative comments on here, (especially since my department isn't really a Monroe County department, we just respond there alot on mutual aid) but I have a sinking feeling that this system may work fine for the cops but the firefighters are really going to have problems with it. I just hope it doesn't get one of us killed.
 

rdale

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More research shows it may be too late... Local FD's have been told to expect their first portables in July, and several from each department are already scheduled for training in April.
 

DXKW

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MONROE COUNTY

WHAT HAPPEN WHEN RON BERNS FROM CENTRAL DISPATCH WENT TO BEDFORD TOWNSHIP FOR A MEETING ON THE NEW 800 SYSTEM, I HEAR
THEY ARE NOT TO HAPPY WITH THIS PLAN. AFTER READING ALL THE POSTS SOMEONE BROUGHT UP 453.625 EMD STARTS TESTING EVERY MORNING AT 6AM.






THANKS
DXKW
 

CCTV

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--WTFD10--have u checked with the downriver fighters about using a digital-system (Currently using 3600 baud digital P-25 system)-since they are in your backward--or are we gonig to believe someone who lives in another area and has ties with another radio company who's pocket book stands to gain-I live in Monroe county and monitor the downriver system every day---fire sounds very good--when they use good batteries in the preps--i also monitor the monroe 154.4300--how can u hear anything over all the hissing and popping that is common with analog? (this occurs on multiple scanner i use)....ps--sound like that Bedford meeting was just a ***** session because the county residents are going to be charged a 911 fee on their land line phone bill....they feel that the Bedford area is having to foot the bill...Not!!!!everyone who has a phone in the county will be charged! Ps..
soon the northern townships will be larger than the Bedford area then they won't have the leverage the have at this time in county government....thank goodness
 

rdale

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"fire sounds very good--when they use good batteries in the preps"

If the radio doesn't hit the tower because of coverage it won't be heard at all...

"i also monitor the monroe 154.4300--how can u hear anything over all the hissing and popping that is common with analog?"

Are you serious? You can't hear anything on analog frequencies because of hissing and popping? If your signal is that bad on analog, there'd be absolutely nothing coming over digital because the user would get 'bonked.' I think any fire chief would rather hear a FF calling for help with hissing and popping on his signal than hear nothing at all because the digital won't take it at all!
 

CCTV

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--i'm very serious---has anyone questioned the downriver system about that systems performance...i also monitor livingston county fire ..loud and clear..and if a ff life was in danger because he/she could not xmit from a basement or attic of a house????.if u listen to the monroe system, the firefighters are asking dispatch to re-xmit info all the time---not that i'm saying a digital system can out perform (go thru walls and large metal buildings) a properly maintained analog system...but this is the case with the two systems...and i'm sure that the downriver community has a lot more tall buildings and sub-divisions with basements to deal with than monroe county...both the analog system in monroe county (police and fire) performance over the last 6 months seem to have dropped off in voice quality . ...we will have to take a show me stance with the new 800 mhz digital system--cuz it coming and thats a fact---my question is it going to be cqpsk????
 

rdale

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"and if a ff life was in danger because he/she could not xmit from a basement or attic of a house?"

Livingston switches to the conventional TAC channel when onscene, so the incident commander wears two radios -- one on the MPSCS system and the other on the fireground TAC channels which don't go through the repeater. I don't think that's the best way but it works for them...

"not that i'm saying a digital system can out perform (go thru walls and large metal buildings) a properly maintained analog system."

That's the issue - it's not currently maintained well. They need another tower, probably best placed in the southwest corner of the county.

"my question is it going to be cqfsk????"

Yes - all subsystems use CQPSK, and unfortunately many CQPSK systems are not scannable very well from reports across the country.
 

Thunderbolt

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WTFD10 said:
I'm probably going to get into trouble for posting negative comments on here, (especially since my department isn't really a Monroe County department, we just respond there alot on mutual aid) but I have a sinking feeling that this system may work fine for the cops but the firefighters are really going to have problems with it. I just hope it doesn't get one of us killed.

Lucas County is currently planning out their own 800 MHz., digital system that will become a subsystem of MARCS when completed in the next two years or longer. They plan on having several towers across the county and all county agencies, including the port authority will move to the new system, maybe even the city of Toledo if they can be persuaded to make the move. Likewise, all of the municipalities in the county will also be encouraged to join the new system.

I understand that like the MPSCS, the MARCS TRS, will encourage the use of analog frequencies for fireground communications. This usually takes place on the I-TAC frequencies in direct-talkaround simplex mode.

73's

Ron
 

flame

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Monroe County

Will someone post the frequencies when they are available??
 

flame

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Monroe County

Will someone post the frequencies when they are available??
 

flame

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Monroe County

Will someone post the frequencies when they are available??
 

WTFD10

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Thunderbolt said:
Lucas County is currently planning out their own 800 MHz., digital system that will become a subsystem of MARCS when completed in the next two years or longer. They plan on having several towers across the county and all county agencies, including the port authority will move to the new system, maybe even the city of Toledo if they can be persuaded to make the move. Likewise, all of the municipalities in the county will also be encouraged to join the new system.

I understand that like the MPSCS, the MARCS TRS, will encourage the use of analog frequencies for fireground communications. This usually takes place on the I-TAC frequencies in direct-talkaround simplex mode.

73's

Ron

Something has changed alot in the last few months then because the last I heard, Toledo is planning to build a new system and would like other county agencies to be on it too (so they don't have to foot the entire bill). It was to be planned to connect with MARCS but would be a completely seperate sytem. If the Deputy Chief in charge of communications has his way it will not be digital.

My department will most likely not move to this system unless we are forced too. We have our own UHF repeater system that works excellent and we have no reason to switch.

Question about the MPSCS I-Tacs, are these trunked talkgroups with analog modulation or are they regular simplex frequencies in the 800 band? Can they be monitored with a regular scanner?
 

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The I-Tacs are analog simplex. Some areas of the state have repeaters on I-TAC1, and almost all of the MPSCS towers have repeaters on I_CALL (866.0125)

Any 800Mhz capable analog scanners can hear these frequencies.

Mike
 

KB8UYC

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oh and by the way....just so Rob knows..........there are 3 towers that were built.......not 2. Plus the dundee tower that makes a total of 4 towers for the county of Monroe.. Dont believe me? I have MULTIPLE pictures of all 4 towers in monroe county.

Thanks Mike for the info cant wait to hear em now!

Eric
 
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