More CSX Digital Nonsense

[DPD1]

I notice that somebody posted in 02 that the system type would be expanded to multiple states in three years, which obviously doesn't appear to have happen. That would seem to indicate it's still nothing more than a stand alone experimental system, and that also may be a bit of proof that they realize P25 isn't going to be the protocol winning out for the industry. I don't think some people grasp how big a deal this is, and how much thought, money and time go into things like this. They can easily spend millions, if not hundreds of millions, before anything is clearly decided. A couple systems or radios here or there doesn't really mean anything.

From what I have been told by people who actually work on the stuff... It looks like the NEXEDGE protocol was possibly selected for the 6.25 kHz standard in the future. That's actually not a proprietary protocol... There's different manufacturers involved, including Kenwood, Icom and Ritron. To add more confusion, Icom's name for it is IDAS. D-Star is something different and has nothing to do with this.

Apparently the railroads have still been purchasing analog equipment for trackside, so that would indicate there's still a long way to go with all this. But if NEXEDGE does win out, that would be a good thing, as technically, receiver companies could move to get the common air interface.

As stated many times, this will take years to get ironed out. Some people seem to think it's happening tomorrow, but that is far from reality.


Dave
www.DPDProductions.com
Antennas & Accessories for the RF Professional & Radio Hobbyist

 

[KE7JFF]

I notice that somebody posted in 02 that the system type would be expanded to multiple states in three years, which obviously doesn't appear to have happen. That would seem to indicate it's still nothing more than a stand alone experimental system, and that also may be a bit of proof that they realize P25 isn't going to be the protocol winning out for the industry. I don't think some people grasp how big a deal this is, and how much thought, money and time go into things like this. They can easily spend millions, if not hundreds of millions, before anything is clearly decided. A couple systems or radios here or there doesn't really mean anything.

From what I have been told by people who actually work on the stuff... It looks like the NEXEDGE protocol was possibly selected for the 6.25 kHz standard in the future. That's actually not a proprietary protocol... There's different manufacturers involved, including Kenwood, Icom and Ritron. To add more confusion, Icom's name for it is IDAS. D-Star is something different and has nothing to do with this.

Apparently the railroads have still been purchasing analog equipment for trackside, so that would indicate there's still a long way to go with all this. But if NEXEDGE does win out, that would be a good thing, as technically, receiver companies could move to get the common air interface.

As stated many times, this will take years to get ironed out. Some people seem to think it's happening tomorrow, but that is far from reality.


Dave
www.DPDProductions.com
Antennas & Accessories for the RF Professional & Radio Hobbyist

Well, I do know that both AAR and RAC are members of the P25 board; that might mean nothing but at least they have their options open and have influenced the standard in someway towards the railroad.

Personally, AAR would have to step in at some point and coordinate this otherwise, it will be madness.

 

[fwradio]

I notice that somebody posted in 02 that the system type would be expanded to multiple states in three years, which obviously doesn't appear to have happen. That would seem to indicate it's still nothing more than a stand alone experimental system, and that also may be a bit of proof that they realize P25 isn't going to be the protocol winning out for the industry. I don't think some people grasp how big a deal this is, and how much thought, money and time go into things like this. They can easily spend millions, if not hundreds of millions, before anything is clearly decided. A couple systems or radios here or there doesn't really mean anything.

From what I have been told by people who actually work on the stuff... It looks like the NEXEDGE protocol was possibly selected for the 6.25 kHz standard in the future. That's actually not a proprietary protocol... There's different manufacturers involved, including Kenwood, Icom and Ritron. To add more confusion, Icom's name for it is IDAS. D-Star is something different and has nothing to do with this.

Apparently the railroads have still been purchasing analog equipment for trackside, so that would indicate there's still a long way to go with all this. But if NEXEDGE does win out, that would be a good thing, as technically, receiver companies could move to get the common air interface.

As stated many times, this will take years to get ironed out. Some people seem to think it's happening tomorrow, but that is far from reality.


Dave
www.DPDProductions.com
Antennas & Accessories for the RF Professional & Radio Hobbyist

We have been selling many NXDN radios to the railroads lately. Maybe they decided. They are getting programmed with all the channels in wideband analog and 6.25 kHz NXDN with no NAC.

 

[HM1529]

This company's website makes mention of the railroads' apparent transition to NXDN.

http://icomfuture.com/faqs.aspx

 

[burner50]

I can tell you for sure, that UP, Even if they are testing a P25 system, Is still purchasing and issuing analog only handhelds to the majority of the crews.

 

[DPD1]

I believe NXDN is in the running too, and also 'suggested' by the AAR. But a lot of this info can be traced back to manufacturers, and of course they're going to paint the picture that their system has in fact been chosen as the absolute standard... even though it hasn't. Personally, I don't think anything will be standardized until it's standardized, if that makes any sense... In other words, I think it could take sometime before one protocol basically wins by default. I'm not sure they will ever get it together enough to decide what the standard is *before* large amounts of equipment have been sold. The railroads go through so many radios, even purchasing hundreds of one kind, doesn't necessarily mean those will end up being the standard.

Dave
www.DPDProductions.com
Antennas & Accessories for the RF Professional & Radio Hobbyist

 

[radionerd13669]

I will try to find my release on rail road radios.Icom does now have a rail road package with the 6.25 IDAS/NXDEN.

 

[KE7JFF]

Just for sport, I did a search on AAR's website for Icom, NXDN and Kenwood and I got nothing.

 

[aaronneely1]

Just thought I would share a little info as to what I know but how am i to know. All CSX-T old radios such as motorola and Icom are being boxed up and put away. It is there goal to have all kenwood radios by Jan 2010. They are going to Nexedge radios for 3 main reasons. 1st being capable of up grades to DIGITAL format 2nd for better quality 3rd everyone has the same gear. The nexedge radios are programmed with zones mainly one zone of narrow band aar chs and wide band aar chs. SO for the rail fans you will still hear us talk on the radio for awhile ,but it is to my understanding late 2010 after all kenwood radios are in use and everyone has one they will be adding another zone in the radios and it will be voice encryption.99 % of all employees have there new radios. The Dispatch centers have all new gear up and running as well they are able to do voice encryption as well was planned when jacksonville split to divisions centers in the actual division. With all the security issues the company CSX has put in millions of millions of dollars in this project. But thats just pocket change to them. This new radio project will take some time to be final but it is getting closer every day. When it comes to safety and security they take pride in it and will have it complete. I know that the way it will be used at first will be on same freqs as now but mine run sifters and yard jobs and all rco operations will be on the new zone with voice encryption.If i need to talk to them simple push a button up one zone and bang digital voice encryption. by 2013 csx operations will most likely be 100% digital voice encryption. And if the other railroads dont have in place the digital radios the radios will still be able to revert to analog. But like everything i have seen before 2013 its hard to say what kinda new project they will have out. But they seem pretty strong on this new radio program. They are replacing the towers with newer radio equipment. This is probably the fastest I have seen a plan work out with them. I mean with in just about a year every radio from dispatch towers to maintainer trucks to conductors have been issued a new radio. I really like the ideal and really like the kenwoods they are a lot beter radio then th icoms they were have us use.

 

[DPD1]

I find it hard to believe that the majority of the entire system is close to having all of it's radios changed out, including mainline stations. You're talking about thousands of radios, and the protocol was barely even decided on. The new protocol will eventually be digital... Not encrypted. Those are different things. But if they are really that gung-ho about it, it has to be one of two things... They either got the money from the feds, or they are fools. Because they are spending that money for absolutely no logical reason.

 

[aaronneely1]

No they did not get any kind of grant I to thought yeah ok there sayin they will switch and never belived it untill they handed me my radio and said here turn your old one in here is our plans and why we are doing it. The main reason for them going encrypted is security reasons. And by doing so will help keep a safer work place. But like I said who am I to know I just work for CSX. I cant so much more about it other than what I have due to my name is on here and I do work for them. It is a good thing. Like I said before it was pocket change to them to buy all new radio gear for everyone. but they did. It is fact I have one I signed the papers and radio number was placed into the radio tracking in the network system. It is programmed our division is starting to use the encrypted channels. I have played with it if you put the chn in a old scanner you cant hear a word because its both digital and encrypted. I wish i had all the money that CSX throws away just for one day. I would never work again! Yes digital and encrypted are different And when you use both it doubles secure radio traffic. You say barely even decided on? They made use turn old radios in icom motorola ect they bought all kenwood and like everything they always do there is a deadline to get your new radio. And trust me everyone will make deadline because if you dont your violation of rule.

 

[timkilbride]

No they did not get any kind of grant I to thought yeah ok there sayin they will switch and never belived it untill they handed me my radio and said here turn your old one in here is our plans and why we are doing it. The main reason for them going encrypted is security reasons. And by doing so will help keep a safer work place. But like I said who am I to know I just work for CSX. I cant so much more about it other than what I have due to my name is on here and I do work for them. It is a good thing. Like I said before it was pocket change to them to buy all new radio gear for everyone. but they did. It is fact I have one I signed the papers and radio number was placed into the radio tracking in the network system. It is programmed our division is starting to use the encrypted channels. I have played with it if you put the chn in a old scanner you cant hear a word because its both digital and encrypted. I wish i had all the money that CSX throws away just for one day. I would never work again! Yes digital and encrypted are different And when you use both it doubles secure radio traffic. You say barely even decided on? They made use turn old radios in icom motorola ect they bought all kenwood and like everything they always do there is a deadline to get your new radio. And trust me everyone will make deadline because if you dont your violation of rule.

Post some photos of your radio.

Tim K.

 

[Haley]

I agree with Tim K. , I would like to see this radio. Not doubting the poster, just curious. Mike

 

[burner50]

Post some photos of your radio.

Tim K.

.....

 

[BigLebowski]

.....

Don't get your hopes up.

 

[DPD1]

I'm assuming probably an NX700 or NX200 or something. All I know is I had not one, but two UP electricians tell me like 5 years ago that the whole RR was going to be P25 in a year... "Guaranteed" "Changing all the radios right now". I'm just saying... I don't necessarily doubt that aaron was told all this, or has even seen some evidence... But info gets confused. Even for people right in the middle of it. Look at when this thread started. If we went by that original info, we were lead to believe the whole thing would have been un-listenable by now.

 

[trace1]

Well I did catch some P25 traffic several, several months ago but I just can't remember if it was CSX or NF which is the two I normally monitor here in the Anniston/Oxford area. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[BigLebowski]

I'm still throwing the bull**** flag.

I'm not doubting what Aaron was told, but why would a huge company like CSX all of a sudden try to encrypt communications? Are they going to keep on hand a huge supply of spare radios to put in every foreign locomotive that comes on the property? What about for the contract personnel that work several different railroads? How would they rekey all these radios once the encryption key is leaked out to the railfan community? (I give it 24 hours tops..)

I can see P25 or Nextedge, but not in any encrypted form.

By the way.. just because you key your radio and your scanner won't decode it doesn't make it encrypted. Does your scanner decode Nextedge? No it doesn't.

 

[DPD1]

I have no doubt that NXDN is coming, and I have no doubt that isolated jobs off rail will start using it any time now... such as the PD or off rail yard jobs. Or they may even be using it right now. But there is a big difference between that and actual on rail comms. Just because old radios are getting swapped out with the new ones, doesn't mean the digital will be in full force on actual lines anytime soon. It's not even a matter of swapping... New bases are going to have to be put in place... Everything is going to have to be rebuilt. That doesn't just happen in a couple years. And I think that's where the confusion comes in. If they got the feds to pay, then it possibly becomes legit. But CSX in particular has been at the bottom of the class 1's in terms of poor maintenance and accidents over the last 10 years. I find it hard to believe that they all of the sudden decide they're going to shell out millions out of their own pockets to change the entire system overnight, just so people can't listen. And if the feds did pay, then the tax payers need to start writing letters.

 

[redhelmet13]

I'm still throwing the bull**** flag.

I'm not doubting what Aaron was told, but why would a huge company like CSX all of a sudden try to encrypt communications? Are they going to keep on hand a huge supply of spare radios to put in every foreign locomotive that comes on the property? What about for the contract personnel that work several different railroads? How would they rekey all these radios once the encryption key is leaked out to the railfan community? (I give it 24 hours tops..)

I can see P25 or Nextedge, but not in any encrypted form.

By the way.. just because you key your radio and your scanner won't decode it doesn't make it encrypted. Does your scanner decode Nextedge? No it doesn't.

There is a push to keep this vital infrastructure safe. Working for a subcontractor had to go through a serious background check and pass a test on Safety and awareness. The test mentions keeping operations/sensitive information from those who do not need to know.

I would venture to guess they will do what is necessary to acheive this goal.