Motorola wins new slers contract!!!!

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

VSELP was Motorola's submittal to the APCO Steering Committee as a proposed vocoder. IMBE was invented and submitted by DVSI at the same time who ultimately was selected as the P25 Phase I vocoder of choice.

During the roll-out of the Motorola SLERS system the vocoder hadn't been selected by APCO so Motorola rolled out VSELP and then after it was selected a few years later IMBE was flashed into the Astro radios and infrastructure to meet the selected standard.

That is the history of both and how they both lived in SLERS when Motorola had the initial contract.

True about VSELP, and that was going to require an eventual do over on the Pilot system anyhow.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[rs989]

I used to be Moto Fanboy No. 1. These days I don't care quite so much. I'm familiar enough with all the major players that I can work with any of them. They all have their strengths and their weaknesses.

I view competition as a good thing. It makes each vendor try to make a better product.

However, when Harris bought out the GE legacy business, they bought ownership of the rolling disaster that is OpenSky and some of the liability for it as well. Their correct response to that should have been to put a total end to OpenSky (I or II) and convert those systems to P25 as a matter of standard policy.

Motorola never managed to make a blunder that was as large, notorious, and damaging as OpenSky was.

Engineers will always design a full coverage system and recommend it.
Salesmen will always try to sell that to their customers.
Their customers will always have their beancounters protest the price.
Compromises will always be made that lower coverage, performance, and price.
The system will be installed and the customer will be unhappy with the coverage when it turns out to be no better than demanded by the amended contract specifications.
Lawyers fight over the scraps.

That's how this industry works.

I am probably biasd by The state of Minnesota choosing Motorola statewide for the P25 800MHz (ARMER) system with nearly every county went with, even the ones in the boonies joined. Some of the counties that did not change were in heavy tree areas lousy for 800MHz and the cost to change out all the squad and portable radios which would be cost prohibited. The MN State Patrol uses it throughout the state where it's feesable and still VHF-Hi where ARMER is not implemented. Their VHF-Hi mobile radios are programmed with a VHF-Hi channel to communicate with the State patrol statewide PSAP in Roseville, MN (a suburb of Minneapolis) when those units come to the Metro area since they all don't have ARMER radios issued to them.

The system is very robust and has worked fantastically when the 35W bridge that collapsed a few years ago using the Interop talkgroups so all the first responders could communicate. They system went though it's biggest challenge to handle all the Super Bowl radio traffic for the game last month. I believe they are looking at logs on system performance for the days and the day leading up to the game. The prelim report is that it worked great with some occasional channel grant delays. Some systems like Hennepin Co. sumulcast has so much traffic that they were once down to only 1 voice channel. I would believe they used most of the alt control channel freqs for voice traffic. As usage increase and Phase I radio's are replaced with APX's at some point Phase II could be added for busy systems if need be.

Except for the usual simulcast distortion that affects a scanner user (Including myself) had to endure but the subscribers radios worked very well. I was out of town but I have a couple of XTS2500 programmed with all the interop talkgroups I could not pickup with my BC996XT. I need the XTS's to listen to the county I live in due to the simulcast system being a tough nut to pickup using a scanner. The issues affect quite a a large listening area even the first responder's 2500's have some difficultly with it. I have heard it first hand from one their radios and the people who say those radio's are immune are full of it. All of my XTS's were programmed with on-affiliate scan and due to the limits on the number of scan list members it makes a poor scanner and mine just sit on a talkgroup for kmy area that is extremely hard to pickup due to the site and being almost the same amount of distance from two diffrent placed sites. It sucks when you live on elevation that tops 1,000ft ASL.

The system is robust and fantastic as system techs and Motorola did a good job in the design and implementing system and it's still going strong after being on the air for nearly 15 years. Owning several models of Motorola radios, their quality is good. One agency uses EF Johnson radios and in my opinion sound awful. That was a must and since the system uses CAI other vendor's radios were approved to be used on the system. In my mind Motorola is the king of all two-way radio equipment. It would be nice if they could have an option for just receive only without the need to affiliate without the use ot the non-affiliate scan method. When I worked in Television, the station had to purchase 3 Astro mobiles programmed by the state with legit RIDS and only the home sites for each talkgroup so they could not affilite on a different site dragging traffic on a site it should not be normally be on. Also no transmit excpt to affiliate when changing to the small amount of talkgroups approved with particular agency and that those TG's were added. The no trasmit as setup in the Zone Controller and the mics were removed so there would be no way to accidentally key up and get a channel grant. Now that there are scanners that do P25 trunking, thoee radios are not used realdbility helpful when a particular TG was needed. When the system became operational there were no P25 scanners out yet. Hopefully the scanner manufacturers are able to design scanners that do not suffer from the wrath of simulcast systems.

OpenSky is junk in my opinion and should not be used for PS comms. The State of Pennsylvania dumped OS in certain areas of the state (I believe the Penns State Police), Las Vegas dumped their OS system for poor performance and coverage and installed a Motorola PI system and have great results. The city of Milwaukee, WI went OpenSky and had a ton of problems and the roll out was slow and since I don't live there anymore I don't know if they are still having issues. Naperville/Aurora Illinois went with OS and with the freqs they have it could in theory support 50 voice channels. Again there hasn't been reports of serous issues public comments on any problems with it. In Minnesota, Motorola was not the lowest bidder on a contract to design the system, but the lowest bit can be ignored if a case of reliability can be considered. Minnesota's (MnDOT, Department of Transportation) "Mother M" the contract and since they were the owners of ARMER they chose a company that build quality systems. Thank got they did pick Motorola not select broken sky. ARMER's interop between agencies are seamless when the crap hits the fan. Motorola P25 CAI systems kick butt.

 

[MTS2000des]

Let's be honest about it. Motorola Solutions ONLY does radio systems. It is their core, and exclusive, business. If they do not do it well they will not survive.

Not hardly. Their survival depends on being able to do more than legacy LMR, and they've been making moves in that direction to be more than just "radio".

MSI now acquired Airbus DS, who is one of the largest players in the PSAP market. MSI bought Premiere ONE CAD years ago from another company. LMR is a large part of their core business today, but they aren't stupid- the future of public safety communications spans far beyond legacy LMR. They now own a key player in PSAP, a strong CAD system and message switch, and with their partnering with AT&T for FirstNET, they are aiming to be a true sole source provider for 911.

You need three things to do business in 911: phones to take the calls, radios to dispatch the calls, and CAD/RMS to log it all. MSI now owns all three.

I am sure this has much to do with Florida's decision to go with MSI. Harris is not in the PSAP business, nor do they have a CAD or RMS to compete.

You'd be foolish if you don't think this is what governments look at these days. They want a single point of contact for service, and everything neatly packaged the same way consumers like bundled services like broadband internet, TV and cellphone all on one bill with a single point of contact.

MSI knows this and their strategy of late is pretty brilliant. Watch and see.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Let me rephrase: Motorola Solutions is focused only on public safety and wants every aspect of it. But they're staying focused on that industry alone.

 

[MTS2000des]

Let me rephrase: Motorola Solutions is focused only on public safety and wants every aspect of it. But they're staying focused on that industry alone.

How so? Airbus DS wasn't a cheap acquisition.
Premiere ONE/Premiere MDC is a long standing product acquired during the late 1990s.

The FirstNET partnership is anything but focused on radio.

Radio alone isn't going to keep any public safety tech company afloat and profitable. If Harris were smart, they'd start looking at buying one of the few CAD competitors like Superion or TriTech, and then make a bid for a PSAP company like West. With ESINET being deployed more and more, they are going to write themselves into the history books. MSI obviously have a strategy and one that will pay off for them because our business is changing and morphing into more converged systems and networks.

There is way more to public safety communications technology these days than RADIO. Harris has a stellar subscriber product and a great P-25 network core, but that's it.

 

[Gmork]

Premier One MDC is a terrible product. It is not user friendly on both the field unit or dispatch side.

Motorola should stick to what they do best, make great two-way products.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Further news here:

Florida selects Motorola Solutions to revamp statewide LMR system | Motorola Solutions content from Urgent Communications


This suggests that this is not just a "replace vendor, make current system work like we want it to" scenario, but it's actually for full system replacement.

This is going to get interesting.

The current SLERS contract with Harris runs to 2021. I'm going to guess that the idea is that Motorola will have a new system ready to flip the switch on at the date the Harris contract ends.

As this article reads, Harris actually owns the SLERS system, which I interpret to mean, they own the site equipment but not the subscriber equipment. I KNOW that the system users do have to buy the subscriber units.

 

[mmckenna]

Motorola should stick to what they do best, make great two-way products.

You left out "over priced".

Motorola makes mostly good gear on the higher end. They've had some low tier stinkers. Batwings alone don't guarantee a great product.
They are losing market share due to high cost. As they lose brand reputation as the good ole' boy network retires, it's going to get more difficult. If Motorola wants to stay in the lead, they need to stop relying on the guys who will be retiring soon to blindly spec' their gear, and start getting competitive. To get competitive they need to start bringing the prices down and stop making stupid marketing decisions.

 

[ElroyJetson]

You could say the exact same thing if you were to replace every instance of "Motorola" with "Harris" and a few context sensitive edits.

Same game, same players, nothing ever really changes.

I do agree that there does need to be a reckoning. Motorola has some products that are identical other than the firmware in them and the P25 radio is 4x more expensive than the exact same radio loaded with Trbo firmware and a different model number and badge.

I think Harris does comparable things.

It's wrong, even a ripoff, in either event.

 

[tdmans0402]

The SLERS Contract Hasn't Been Awarded

The SLERS contract hasn't been awarded to Motorola. Many reports are jumping the gun. There are rumors that the Florida Department of Management Services has posted a Notice of Intent to award the contract to Motorola, but that is a far cry from actually awarding the contract. It seems supporters of Motorola are leaking the story that the contract has been awarded. Follow the money, because Motorola has deep, deep, pockets.

The new system being procured is a replacement for the State Law Enforcement Radio System, being used by FHP , FWC, DOT, and other state agencies. Harris and Motorola are the two bidders. Bidding and selection is being managed by the Florida Department of Management Services. The new system will be a P25 technology system. Harris already has new P25 Phase II systems in operation in counties around Florida and the feedback from customers has been outstanding. Harris built and maintains the current EDACS system used by the same agencies for 15 years. They own the shelters and lease the tower space that supports the infrastructure. For Motorola to build a new system, it would cost upwards towards 900 million dollars, because new infrastructure would have to be built. A Harris system wouldn't come close to that cost. Both Harris and Motorola have strong Lobbyists helping DMS to make their decision. On a side note, it was the current Harris EDACS system that helped Public Safety responders during the hurricanes of 2017. The system proved reliable and the needed coverage was there. For areas devastated by the hurricanes, Harris worked around the clock to restore all systems within days of the aftermath. Below are some articles to help you.

Improving Law Enforcement Communications

Statewide Law Enforcement Radio System (SLERS) | BidNet

Battle Builds Over Florida

 

[trooper890]

I used to work for a car dealer who repaired FHP cars that were still under warranty. I'd ask the troopers which radio system worked better. The new system, or the older system where they used Astro Sabers. Every one told me the Astro Saber system worked much better. Plenty of dead spots with the current system, but none with the original Moto system. Who knows this time?

Absolutely. You’re dead on right sir.

The Motorola ASTRO system absolutely worked FAR better than what replaced it, in phase 1 and 2. (Miami & Orlando). Sad to see it go. Radios were much more rugged.

Conversely, In Phase 3-5 the EDACS FAR outperformed what it replaced (Tampa, Jax, Panhandle). Where VHF and VHF low were still in use up until 2001-02 or so. Glad it came. Radios were a godsend replacing ancient gear.

HOPEFULLY whatever comes next improves handheld coverage. It’s not 1975. Walking back to the car isn’t viable to call for help and ability to talk with locals and other agencies who aren’t on the system are not optional these days.

 

[ElroyJetson]

I'm glad you brought this information in. I reported what articles I'd found but significantly I have not yet found any pressers from Motorola or any indication that Harris has filed a protest, which I'm sure that either company would do if losing a bid, just because that's how it's done.

Another option that the State might consider would be to purchase the site infrastructure (and not the obsolete equipment) from Harris as an option should Motorola win the new contract. If Motorola were to go forward with system replacement then Harris would have no further need for the sites and could be persuaded to sell them to the State.

The State should own the tower sites outright regardless of what vendor provides the system.

It was a SERIOUS mistake on the State's part to ever agree to a situation where the vendor OWNS the system and the state is only a customer of it. That obviously sets up a situation that puts a competitor at an unfair disadvantage when it comes time for system replacement.

But, hey, this is Florida so you can expect that whatever happens, it'll be sneaky, dirty, and underhanded, because that's just how Florida government rolls.

 

[batdude]

the only people who are going to get rich on this system in the near term are the attorneys who will be busily filing lawsuits and counter-suits against each other and the state.... which will end up in court in 2-3 years, upon which the state of FL will have to re-bid the system.

that's how my crystal ball sees this one playing out.

 

[MTS2000des]

Premier One MDC is a terrible product. It is not user friendly on both the field unit or dispatch side.

Motorola should stick to what they do best, make great two-way products.

Not to nitpick, but Premier ONE is a CAD product, and Premier MDC is a message switch/mobile application. They are two different products and were created by two different companies before Motorola acquired them. My SIC from Superion used to work for the company that created PMDC Message switch, got alot of history from working with him about how Motorola got into the CAD/message switch side of the house.

My current CAD is InterACT (you want to talk about something that SUCKS), and I have a Premier MDC message switch (release 5.15 to be exact) with PMDC mobiles deployed.

Thank God it will be gone as soon as I can get my Superion OneSolution CAD deployed in a couple of months. SMS is a far better more flexible message switch than PMDC not to mention it is so integrated into the Superion suite.

 

[NParkNJ]

Further news here:

Florida selects Motorola Solutions to revamp statewide LMR system | Motorola Solutions content from Urgent Communications


This suggests that this is not just a "replace vendor, make current system work like we want it to" scenario, but it's actually for full system replacement.

This is going to get interesting.

The current SLERS contract with Harris runs to 2021. I'm going to guess that the idea is that Motorola will have a new system ready to flip the switch on at the date the Harris contract ends.

As this article reads, Harris actually owns the SLERS system, which I interpret to mean, they own the site equipment but not the subscriber equipment. I KNOW that the system users do have to buy the subscriber units.

Makes me wonder since it may be a "joint/shared site" at this point, if Motorola will build on those sites, and then when the contract with Harris is up, they can "flip the switch" and the Harris guys can just de-comm the sites of their antennas and what not.

As long as space allows, why not build up the site ASAP, and get a jump on things.

 

[TampaTyron]

Word on the street is that it is all new sites, all new backhaul, new everything. TT

 

[Gmork]

Not to nitpick, but Premier ONE is a CAD product, and Premier MDC is a message switch/mobile application.

You are absolutely correct. I totally combined the two in error.

P1 is still a terrible product. Intergraph wasn't the best product but in my opinion it was way better than any of the Motorola CAD products.

 

[officerdave]

Interesting topic

I am on the Naperville/Aurora OS system. Harris does its best to keep it running. I believe since our system and Milwaukee's was put in, Harris has not installed a Public Safety OS system again. Their new multi band radios will not now or ever support OS. A legacy that is not easy to replace without spending a ton of tax payer dollars.
Motorola owns our Statewide P25 system and we pay user fees to them to be on it. My county built out a subsystem of the State side and of course Moto added numerous towers to get the in building coverage. Most of the county was on voted T-Band that worked very well . Oh well progress I guess.

 

[ElroyJetson]

It would absolutely make sense to build a complete new system, infrastructure, backhaul, sites, everything, when replacing a system as large and complex as a statewide system. Trying to upgrade an existing system when it's the same vendor doing the work that provided it to begin with, but swapping brands, equipment, vendors, and technical teams? On a system that's in service? I would not want to take any responsibility for that. It would be a nightmare.

I note that as of this time the SLERS P25 upgrade isn't even complete...as far as I know.

The RR database shows site data covering only 12 counties in the P25 system and it was last updated in September. I'm sure that's a bit out of date but I've heard nothing that would indicate the P25 upgrade is even close to complete yet.

Now it almost looks like the system may be up for replacement before those upgrades are complete.

Of course Motorola will attempt to be as competitive as possible and I am sure that will include matching Harris' move of acquiring the site locations and letting the state use them.

 

[mmckenna]

the only people who are going to get rich on this system in the near term are the attorneys who will be busily filing lawsuits and counter-suits against each other and the state.... which will end up in court in 2-3 years, upon which the state of FL will have to re-bid the system.

that's how my crystal ball sees this one playing out.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

http://m.urgentcomm.com/p25/harris-...m=email&elq2=a026fe020b4c440380d73490cbf45e2f