Motorola XPR5550 Install Advice

[daugherh]

Hey guys, I appreciate all the advice I've received so far and hoping y'all don't mind throwing out some more advice for a first time install that I want to do right.

I should be receiving everything in the mail here soon. Right now, I'm installing a single XPR5550 high power UHF but will soon be adding a VHF once funds allow. I believe my idea will cover both radios. My first question is, is mounting everything on a wood panel ok? Was thinking of doing something like this in my Toyota Tacoma behind the driver seat.

All I have is this:

and was thinking of doing this:

Next up is wiring. This is a mockup drawing of my thought process and appreciate any corrective comments.



My main questions are in yellow about fusing negative. I'll pull 8 gauge wire from the battery/frame to the fuse block mounted behind the driver seat and then breakout to the radio(s). Do all of my fusing ideas and fuse sizes seem correct? The one question not on the diagram is that where it says possibly a master kill switch before the block, should I place another 30/40 amp fuse on the inside of the cab or will having it at the battery be sufficient.


Next, I haven't even planned on ignition sense at this point. Once I locate a decent ignition switched circuit, I can pull a wire from it back to my board and use a mini breakout panel for each radio that way. What size fuse do you typically use on ignition sense wires and would it be safe to use one ignition switch lead for both radios or should I put another breakout panel and fuse each one? Again, if I do that what size wire/fuse would you recommend?


And this is the last question for now. This is a 2014 Toyota Tacoma. Can anyone tell me if there is anything behind this part of the headliner? I'm thinking about using some clips of some sort or even cutting a small slit and passing some zip ties through to mount the control head up here above the mirror if safe to do so. Thoughts?

Thanks for all the advice and I'm sure I'll be back with more questions. Y'all rock!

 

[Twister_2]

I tore my headliner down on my Subaru to drill an NMO and run a cable from the trunk to my sun glasses holder above the center console. It was pretty painless and reinstalled perfectly. I had to take down my A frame molding at the front and back door. From there I was able to peel the headliner back. I don’t remember if it was secured by anything more than Velcro but it was not an involved process whatsoever. I understand you’re asking if there’s anything sensitive up there but I figured this message might help somebody feeling intimidated by pulling it down.

 

[datainmotion]

Did the same on the rear wall of my '02 X-cab Tacoma w/ radio/scanner/computer. Should work well for you.
On the power, your plan looks good. I don't see a need to fuse the negatives unless you plan on accidentally crossing the + and -. I would suggest a manual reset breaker (such as those made by Bussman) as a possible substitution for the main fuse at the battery. But either, of the right value, should suffice.
As for the headliner, you can try to slide a slim piece of plywood between the header and headliner and then use short stingers to mount the control head bracket. If you have the time, pull the whole headliner down for a better look and you can install coax/base for both the VHF, UHF and any other antennas you may want, on the roof, in the future. Just remember, that 5550 has one fat interface cable that connects to the control head at a right angle.

 

[KelzClive]

datainmotion's advice is solid. If I can't recess the head into the headliner, I would try to utilize the pocket in front of the cup holders.​

 

[daugherh]

datainmotion's advice is solid. If I can't recess the head into the headliner, I would try to utilize the pocket in front of the cup holders.​

That’s perfect information. Since I’ll be adding another remote head unit in the future I was trying to save the cup holder pocket for a last resort. Really thinking I can slide some wood above the headliner and secure the remote head above the mirror and route my cable that way. I went ahead and ordered the longer 15 foot control cable.

Just hoping air bags don’t get in the way.

 

[datainmotion]

That’s perfect information. Since I’ll be adding another remote head unit in the future I was trying to save the cup holder pocket for a last resort. Really thinking I can slide some wood above the headliner and secure the remote head above the mirror and route my cable that way. I went ahead and ordered the longer 15 foot control cable.

Just hoping air bags don’t get in the way.

I'm assuming that little plastic piece in the headliner is most likely the bluetooth mic, so figure there will be wires going to that. Slide the wood in gingerly, with that in mind.

*Also* I didn't address the ignition sense question. You'll definitely want that back at the tranceiver(s) behind the seat. That will give you the ability to program on/off with the ignition. As those are typically just a trigger wire and don't do any "heavy lifting", 18Ga with 3A-5A fuses, one for each radio, should be fine.

 

[KelzClive]

That’s perfect information. Since I’ll be adding another remote head unit in the future I was trying to save the cup holder pocket for a last resort. Really thinking I can slide some wood above the headliner and secure the remote head above the mirror and route my cable that way. I went ahead and ordered the longer 15 foot control cable.

Just hoping air bags don’t get in the way.

Just make sure that you route the cables behind the airbags. I've seem so many folks just tuck them in the A pillar by the weather stripping. Run them low under the rug and up the B pillar to your location on the headliner.

 

[AI7PM]

No fuse on the negative, and not 15 feet long. Find a good chassis ground close to the radios.

 

[mmckenna]

It looks like you have a good plan.

#8 wire should be just fine for 40 amps over a run that short. Make sure you get suitable wire. SAE J1127 is the good stuff. You can find that on Amazon pretty easily. TEMCo makes some nice "welding lead & car battery cable" that works like a charm. It has a high strand count, so it is very flexible. The jacket has the SAE rating that is what you want for oil/gas/water protection.

Get good crimp connectors and the right set of crimpers to install them correctly. It makes a difference.

Cover all your connections in marine grade heat shrink. Marine grade heat shrink tubing has a hot melt adhesive liner that will flow when heated. That will seal the connections, and provide good strain relief.

AI7PM is correct, no fuse needed on the negative. Use a short ground from your distribution block to a body bolt. If you don't have a body bolt close by, drill a new hole, sand off the paint on the inside. Install a stainless steel bolt with washers, lock washers and nut for your new ground connection. Make sure it's not in a place where water will collect.

The Bussman resettle circuit breakers are a good option. Those make it easy to disconnect the power if you are going to leave your truck parked somewhere for a while.

Most radios I've worked with used a 3 amp fuse on the ignition sense lead.

You may want to consider adding a Lind timer or ChargeGuard device on your ignition sense circuit. This will keep the radios powered up for a selectable amount of time after you shut the ignition off. This is really handy if you want to sit in the truck and listen to the radios with the engine off.

The back wall of the cab is a good option, however:
Don't drill through the body to mount it. You want to keep sheet metal penetrations to a minimum. If you -must-, use stainless steel nuts/washer/lock washer/bolts.
Looks like the photo shows OSB. I'd spend a bit more and get some 3/4" plywood. That'll hold the screws better, and give you a bit more material to bite into. It also looks good if you spray paint in black before installing it.

I'd be a bit nervous about the overhead mounting, especially if you go off road. The headliners are not really designed to support any weight, so if you do go that route, make sure you spread the load out a lot, and preferably, find some steel to screw into. Down low on the dash is a better choice, usually, since it keeps the microphone cords from smacking you in the face.

And, hopefully, since you are doing all this work, you are going to do permanent mount NMO's on the roof?

 

[mmckenna]

There is some really good information in this document:

Electrical | Caltrans

State of California

dot.ca.gov

A lot of it is overkill for most, but there's some good reasoning behind most of it. At minimum, it's a good place to start.

 

[daugherh]

It looks like you have a good plan.

#8 wire should be just fine for 40 amps over a run that short. Make sure you get suitable wire. SAE J1127 is the good stuff. You can find that on Amazon pretty easily. TEMCo makes some nice "welding lead & car battery cable" that works like a charm. It has a high strand count, so it is very flexible. The jacket has the SAE rating that is what you want for oil/gas/water protection.

Get good crimp connectors and the right set of crimpers to install them correctly. It makes a difference.

Cover all your connections in marine grade heat shrink. Marine grade heat shrink tubing has a hot melt adhesive liner that will flow when heated. That will seal the connections, and provide good strain relief.

AI7PM is correct, no fuse needed on the negative. Use a short ground from your distribution block to a body bolt. If you don't have a body bolt close by, drill a new hole, sand off the paint on the inside. Install a stainless steel bolt with washers, lock washers and nut for your new ground connection. Make sure it's not in a place where water will collect.

The Bussman resettle circuit breakers are a good option. Those make it easy to disconnect the power if you are going to leave your truck parked somewhere for a while.

Most radios I've worked with used a 3 amp fuse on the ignition sense lead.

You may want to consider adding a Lind timer or ChargeGuard device on your ignition sense circuit. This will keep the radios powered up for a selectable amount of time after you shut the ignition off. This is really handy if you want to sit in the truck and listen to the radios with the engine off.

The back wall of the cab is a good option, however:
Don't drill through the body to mount it. You want to keep sheet metal penetrations to a minimum. If you -must-, use stainless steel nuts/washer/lock washer/bolts.
Looks like the photo shows OSB. I'd spend a bit more and get some 3/4" plywood. That'll hold the screws better, and give you a bit more material to bite into. It also looks good if you spray paint in black before installing it.

I'd be a bit nervous about the overhead mounting, especially if you go off road. The headliners are not really designed to support any weight, so if you do go that route, make sure you spread the load out a lot, and preferably, find some steel to screw into. Down low on the dash is a better choice, usually, since it keeps the microphone cords from smacking you in the face.

And, hopefully, since you are doing all this work, you are going to do permanent mount NMO's on the roof?

@mmckenna this is all perfect information. And I pulled the weather stripping back last night and looked. With the airbag modules protruding through the headliner with the little plastic caps I could barely pull the headliner down at all to even look up in there. More than likely I'll be mounting under dash. Thinking of going with a RAM mount and fabricating it so that both remote heads will be on it when the time comes for the second radio.

My plan is to do permanent NMO mounts *if* I can manage to pull the headliner enough to do so. I don't have any significant breaks from work in the next 6 months, so I have to be able to do this on weekends alone. I figure one weekend to get the backboard mounted and possibly pull electric and then the next weekend to mount and dress in the radio. I'm going to go look up and see if I can find any tips on pulling the headliner in this Tacoma because I don't want to rip/damage anything.

 

[mmckenna]

I've been installing NMO mounts for a long time, and I've never needed to remove a headliner to do it.

Remove the dome light and see if you can visualize the roof skin through there. That can give you a place to start. Running the coax back to the rear of the cab and then just above the rear window will keep you out of the airbag zones.

Other option is to find someone who has done a similar install and 'borrow' their measurements.

 

[daugherh]

I've been installing NMO mounts for a long time, and I've never needed to remove a headliner to do it.

Remove the dome light and see if you can visualize the roof skin through there. That can give you a place to start. Running the coax back to the rear of the cab and then just above the rear window will keep you out of the airbag zones.

Other option is to find someone who has done a similar install and 'borrow' their measurements.

That sounds like a plan. I may go ahead and order the second NMO assembly and do both and just cap one for now to prevent from having to do it again. If I plan on having a VHF and UHF, can you recommend a separation amount on the roof or can they be side by side maybe a few inches apart?

 

[mmckenna]

That sounds like a plan. I may go ahead and order the second NMO assembly and do both and just cap one for now to prevent from having to do it again. If I plan on having a VHF and UHF, can you recommend a separation amount on the roof or can they be side by side maybe a few inches apart?

That's a good plan. The NMO rain caps are a good thing to have if you ever take your truck through a car wash.

There's two things you need to consider on antenna placement:
Sufficient ground plane under the antenna base, and of course, separation.

For the VHF antenna, you ideally want 19" all the way around the base of the antenna. That means at least 19" in from any roof edge.
For UHF you ideally want 6" in from the edge.

As for separation, there's a few variables, but the more space you can get, the better. My last truck had about 2 feet between the antennas and I didn't have any issues with 45 watt radios. That was with 1/4 wave antennas.
I've got a work truck that is running a multiband radio and an 800MHz radio, and again, about 2 feet between antennas without any issues.

 

[daugherh]

That's a good plan. The NMO rain caps are a good thing to have if you ever take your truck through a car wash.

There's two things you need to consider on antenna placement:
Sufficient ground plane under the antenna base, and of course, separation.

For the VHF antenna, you ideally want 19" all the way around the base of the antenna. That means at least 19" in from any roof edge.
For UHF you ideally want 6" in from the edge.

As for separation, there's a few variables, but the more space you can get, the better. My last truck had about 2 feet between the antennas and I didn't have any issues with 45 watt radios. That was with 1/4 wave antennas.
I've got a work truck that is running a multiband radio and an 800MHz radio, and again, about 2 feet between antennas without any issues.

So do you think something like this would work, barring maybe moving backwards or forwards a few inches depending on cross beams etc, assuming I maintain 19" and 6" respectively?

I've seen lots of trucks with them mounted right beside each other front to back and definitely don't think thats a good idea.

Any changes you would make to this idea please let me know.

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah.
I did a similar install on a regular cab F350, but it is a wider truck, so I had plenty of ground plane around both antennas.
With a smaller regular cab truck, perfect ground plane and sufficient spacing is going to be a challenge, so you do the best you can. I'd probably set it up the exact same way.

The good part is that since you are using single band commercial radios that will have really good front end filtering, I doubt you'll have any issues with the two antennas being close to each other. Usually where this becomes a challenge is a dual band ham a radio, or a scanner, where wide as a barn door front ends let everybody and everything in to the soft expensive bits in the receiver.

Pay close attention to the components you are using, though.
I see "Tram" listed as one of the antennas. That's probably not an issue with one of their basic 1/4 wave antennas, but be cautious about their other stuff. They are a Chinese knock-off brand and I personally have not been impressed with their products. Do not use their per-terminated NMO mounts, the connectors are poorly installed and covered up with a strain relief so you can't see what's hiding inside. Use the name brand stuff.

Looks like it's going to be a nice install. You are certainly putting more planning and effort into this than a lot of people do.

 

[daugherh]

Yeah.
I did a similar install on a regular cab F350, but it is a wider truck, so I had plenty of ground plane around both antennas.
With a smaller regular cab truck, perfect ground plane and sufficient spacing is going to be a challenge, so you do the best you can. I'd probably set it up the exact same way.

The good part is that since you are using single band commercial radios that will have really good front end filtering, I doubt you'll have any issues with the two antennas being close to each other. Usually where this becomes a challenge is a dual band ham a radio, or a scanner, where wide as a barn door front ends let everybody and everything in to the soft expensive bits in the receiver.

Pay close attention to the components you are using, though.
I see "Tram" listed as one of the antennas. That's probably not an issue with one of their basic 1/4 wave antennas, but be cautious about their other stuff. They are a Chinese knock-off brand and I personally have not been impressed with their products. Do not use their per-terminated NMO mounts, the connectors are poorly installed and covered up with a strain relief so you can't see what's hiding inside. Use the name brand stuff.

Looks like it's going to be a nice install. You are certainly putting more planning and effort into this than a lot of people do.

Thanks for all the advice. I definitely want it to be done as proper as possible the first time. I ordered my NMO assemblies from a guy that does them professionally so while they are pre-terminated, it's at least someone who knows what they are doing.

I'll try to get pictures and do a follow-up post when it's all said and done. If I have any more questions, I'm sure I'll be back.

 

[mmckenna]

Here's a Tram/Browning connector off a pre-terminated NMO mount. The coax and mount were fine. I decided to dissect the overmolded strain relief to see what was hiding inside.
If you look at the crimp, it's not a hexagon crimp, looked like it was just smashed with a pair of pliers. They followed up with a center punch to keep it from sliding off while it was covered in the strain relief.
This is NOT a good installation...



I cut that mess off an installed my own connector for the individual. The RG-58 was ~OK~, but not great. A bit thin in the outer shield coverage, but good enough for the ham use it was getting put into. For the same price, or a few bucks more, you can get a Laird/Larsen/etc. type mount and have a better, longer lasting product. No reason why the NMO mount should not outlast the vehicle.

 

[daugherh]

So, I finally had some time off work last week and got around to installing the two radios. I didn't do a full back wall with MDF like I had thought about due to not having all my tools readily available and less time than I would have anticipated. While not perfect, I'm happy with the outcome and both radios work great. I didn't capture nearly as much as I would have liked in pictures, but I've got the good stuff to share. The only things missing are the wires running underneath the kick panels and thru the firewall, but we've all seen those...right!?


Let's start under the hood. I went with a 30-amp breaker as my main disconnect/fuse source. (Heat shrink and flex tubing has since been added to all connectors - pics were taken early on.) The wire then passes through the firewall and under the kick plates to behind the seat.



So now we go behind the seat. I bored a small hole in the side kick panel for the main wire and the ignition sense wire to pass through and come out from behind the mounting board.


Mounted everything:


The radios are then mounted in the little area between the bench seat and the shifter. I removed the cowling from around the shifter and bolted the ball mount down. No sticky tape or little self-tappers here. It'll have to snap the plastics to go anywhere. I'm not super happy with my mount and will probably redo it later when I have more time to work on it and access to more of my tools as most of my tools are packed up for our impending move.

 

[daugherh]

Continued due to 5 picture per message limit.




For my ignition sense, I opted to add what I consider a "kill" switch. If I get a phone call or have someone riding with me and don't want the radios on, rather than having to turn them off manually I added a switch in line. I tapped an ignition-controlled circuit with a 5 amp add a fuse and then ran it to the switch. The switch then has a leg that runs back to the radio board and is spliced into both ignition sense leads for the two radios. It even has a nice little amber glow to let me know it's on. Default it to just leave it on and let the ignition switch of the truck command the radios. I only use the switch while I'm driving to cut them off.


And finally...antennas. I tried to get the ground planes that were discussed earlier in this thread (approx. 19" on VHF and 6" on UHF). I got really close on it and so far, both systems have been working fabulously with no noticeable desense when transmitting on one or the other.