drewdownkali
Member
Yea, I don't own a crescent wrench. lol. yeah I'll go buy a 15/16th or a crescent. Gold is pretty soft.
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Mounting a CB antenna on a modern hatchback without drilling?
- Thread starter wolrah
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mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yeah, gold is soft, but it isn't gold, brass or stainless is what they are usually made out of.
I wouldn't buy a 15/16ths, kind of a one trick pony. Spend the few extra bucks on an adjustable, much more useful.
I wouldn't buy a 15/16ths, kind of a one trick pony. Spend the few extra bucks on an adjustable, much more useful.
Hello All- Some really informative help has been passed on in this thread; coincidentally I've been dealing with similar issues: Have a Larsen NMO 27C that is married to a Comet CP5-NMO mount. Ran a ground wire from the underside of the trunk mount to a ground on the body; also had scraped the underside of the trunk lip to bare metal. SWR decreased from about 2.0 to 1.5/1.4
Question- does the grounding help with noise? At first listen it appears less noisy, just curious if the grounding helps in this particular area as well?
Question- does the grounding help with noise? At first listen it appears less noisy, just curious if the grounding helps in this particular area as well?
Follow up
Also- how do you folks feel about using cig lighter to power CB vs. direct to battery or to fuse block?
Using the cig outlet is easy, but is it proper?
If using the cig outlet should a ground wire be run from the radio to a ground on the vehicle???
Also- how do you folks feel about using cig lighter to power CB vs. direct to battery or to fuse block?
Using the cig outlet is easy, but is it proper?
If using the cig outlet should a ground wire be run from the radio to a ground on the vehicle???
Here is my set up- had to mount in this particular spot; there was not enough space to mount it centered on the trunk, could not close the trunk.
Clarify if you will; would my SWR have been a better centered? Not really complaining about 1.4/1.5 to 1, however I'm curious about the theory being discussed in this thread
THX
Clarify if you will; would my SWR have been a better centered? Not really complaining about 1.4/1.5 to 1, however I'm curious about the theory being discussed in this thread
THX
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mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
SWR would probably improve a bit if it was centered. Since these are base loaded 1/4 wave antennas, the ground plane is necessary for their operation.
Proper grounding is necessary for the antenna to work right, but for dealing with noise, grounding at the antenna isn't the only place. You should ground the radio case, also, and not rely on the negative power lead.
As for noise, a properly installed antenna, including a ground plane, will work better, and the amount of stuff, including noise, you hear will increase. On the other hand, if you are talking about ignition noise, well, grounding everything correctly will help that to.
As for the cigarette lighter for power, the proper way to power a radio is from a dedicated circuit direct from the battery. Fuse the leads as close to the battery as you can. Run the power leads carefully, using split loom tubing and grommets to protect it from damage. You can power it off the cigarette lighter, but it's a really good way to induce noise into your radio. The circuit that feeds the cig. lighter isn't really designed to provide good clean power. The circuit may be shared with other accessories, run near noisy components (blower motor for heater), etc.
Your best performance will be to run it directly from the battery. I've done this with all my installs and I don't have any noise or alternator whine issues.
Proper grounding is necessary for the antenna to work right, but for dealing with noise, grounding at the antenna isn't the only place. You should ground the radio case, also, and not rely on the negative power lead.
As for noise, a properly installed antenna, including a ground plane, will work better, and the amount of stuff, including noise, you hear will increase. On the other hand, if you are talking about ignition noise, well, grounding everything correctly will help that to.
As for the cigarette lighter for power, the proper way to power a radio is from a dedicated circuit direct from the battery. Fuse the leads as close to the battery as you can. Run the power leads carefully, using split loom tubing and grommets to protect it from damage. You can power it off the cigarette lighter, but it's a really good way to induce noise into your radio. The circuit that feeds the cig. lighter isn't really designed to provide good clean power. The circuit may be shared with other accessories, run near noisy components (blower motor for heater), etc.
Your best performance will be to run it directly from the battery. I've done this with all my installs and I don't have any noise or alternator whine issues.
MM- great information; I'll be able to improve my install by grounding the radio case and provide a direct run to the battery. Many thanks.
This has been a great thread with lots of useful info
This has been a great thread with lots of useful info
Progress: I grounded the radio case. Then worked on powering the radio from the battery. Lucked out because I was able to repurpose existing wire already run thru split tube looming from defunct fog lights.
Thx again
Thx again
drewdownkali
Member
Doesn't look you have anywhere else to put it with that spoiler there.
true enough, thats the only spot available; fortunately that angled corner has the most generous gap so the cable can't get pinched there.
drewdownkali
Member
I think my radio must be messed up. Sure that I am transmitting but can't even receive static.
Just went back through a few of the later posts and have a few random things to say.
Probably the 'biggy' is that SWR has nothing to do with resonance. A low SWR is not indicative of resonance at all. Antenna length with any loading factored in is what determines resonance. A resonant antenna very seldom has a low SWR, the input impedance doesn't have to be anywhere close to 50 ohms and seldom is. The only thing that SWR indicates is the difference in impedance matching, that's all. And unfortunately, SWR meters are not capable of of being a good way of tuning an antenna, they can't tell you the information required for making an antenna resonant. They can also be 'confused' easily.
Where to put an antenna? The best place is above any surrounding metal and in the 'clear' (nothing around the thing). Those places are sort of difficult to find on the average mobile/vehicle. You have to factor in what's practical and what isn't. That can get really, really difficult. You basically have to do the best you can and then 'live' with it.
If you use a loaded antenna then getting that 'load' away from metal which will affect it's abilities is a very good idea. Any sort of conductor near a coil will change the electrical characteristics, it's inductance. That's normal. Most of the time, any variance in inductance can be 'compensated' for if the change isn't too much.
With base loaded antennas, that base coil is/can be a combination of things, a loading coil and an impedance matching coil. It serves two purposes, matching impedance and adding inductance for resonance. You have to be careful with 'adjusting' that sort of coil because it makes changes in two things at once.
You have not receive? Don't even hear static? Sounds like you have an open-circuit somewhere. Tht can be almost anywhere, the antenna's connection to the feed line, a break in the feed line, or in the radio it's self. The 'trick' is to localizing that 'fault' and correcting it. Substituting another antenna and feed line is one way of finding out if it's the radio (or moving your radio to another's installation?). That 'open circuit' can also be a 'short', so just another step in finding out what the #3\\ is happening. (An antenna using a base loading/matching coil shows a short when measured with an ohm meter, that's not a 'fault', it's normal!)
Getting complicated? Yep, it can be...
Have fun.
- 'Doc
Probably the 'biggy' is that SWR has nothing to do with resonance. A low SWR is not indicative of resonance at all. Antenna length with any loading factored in is what determines resonance. A resonant antenna very seldom has a low SWR, the input impedance doesn't have to be anywhere close to 50 ohms and seldom is. The only thing that SWR indicates is the difference in impedance matching, that's all. And unfortunately, SWR meters are not capable of of being a good way of tuning an antenna, they can't tell you the information required for making an antenna resonant. They can also be 'confused' easily.
Where to put an antenna? The best place is above any surrounding metal and in the 'clear' (nothing around the thing). Those places are sort of difficult to find on the average mobile/vehicle. You have to factor in what's practical and what isn't. That can get really, really difficult. You basically have to do the best you can and then 'live' with it.
If you use a loaded antenna then getting that 'load' away from metal which will affect it's abilities is a very good idea. Any sort of conductor near a coil will change the electrical characteristics, it's inductance. That's normal. Most of the time, any variance in inductance can be 'compensated' for if the change isn't too much.
With base loaded antennas, that base coil is/can be a combination of things, a loading coil and an impedance matching coil. It serves two purposes, matching impedance and adding inductance for resonance. You have to be careful with 'adjusting' that sort of coil because it makes changes in two things at once.
You have not receive? Don't even hear static? Sounds like you have an open-circuit somewhere. Tht can be almost anywhere, the antenna's connection to the feed line, a break in the feed line, or in the radio it's self. The 'trick' is to localizing that 'fault' and correcting it. Substituting another antenna and feed line is one way of finding out if it's the radio (or moving your radio to another's installation?). That 'open circuit' can also be a 'short', so just another step in finding out what the #3\\ is happening. (An antenna using a base loading/matching coil shows a short when measured with an ohm meter, that's not a 'fault', it's normal!)
Getting complicated? Yep, it can be...
Have fun.
- 'Doc
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Not sure what flavor radio you are using, but some things to check....
Squelch, obviously.
RF Gain. If your radio has an RF gain control, make sure it's turn up all the way.
Check through all your connections. It's easy to miss something, especially with all the stuff you've been doing. Retrace all your steps.
Lt. Doc's comments are excellent. We are getting into pretty deep stuff, and well beyond what the average CB/scanner hobbyist can do. The SWR issue is why I've got a $20K piece of test equipment I use, and look at things like return loss, etc. For what you are doing, SWR meter will get you close enough. We've covered all the details already, so it's just down to the fine details now.
Finding the cause for the lack of receive is the next step. If you are seeing the antenna SWR is reasonable, then you should be hearing something. That's why I'm thinking there is a simple explanation for what is happening.
drewdownkali
Member
Not even static. Rf all the way up, squelch all the way down.
drewdownkali
Member
Uniden px68XL.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I know you already know this:
NB/ANL = Off
CB/PA = CB
CH9 = Off
Dynamic Squelch Control = off
Volume = up
Squelch = down
RF Gain = Maximum
Check your antenna connection. Use your meter to check everything through again. Make sure your antenna is installed/tightened down all the way. Make sure that center pin on the bottom of the coil didn't get jammed.
Go back through and take a look at everything you did since the last time it worked.
Did you add an external speaker? Is it plugged in all the way? Try unplugging it and use the CB's internal speaker.
Don't give up....
NB/ANL = Off
CB/PA = CB
CH9 = Off
Dynamic Squelch Control = off
Volume = up
Squelch = down
RF Gain = Maximum
Check your antenna connection. Use your meter to check everything through again. Make sure your antenna is installed/tightened down all the way. Make sure that center pin on the bottom of the coil didn't get jammed.
Go back through and take a look at everything you did since the last time it worked.
Did you add an external speaker? Is it plugged in all the way? Try unplugging it and use the CB's internal speaker.
Don't give up....
drewdownkali
Member
Everything good. Swr, connections, settings. I can actually transmit. Friend can pick me up with his scanner. But can't get any reception. Dead silent. Plugged in some ear buds too, nothing.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yeah, I'd have to agree, time to swap in a known working radio.
That's kind of a shame, considering all the work you've put into getting your antenna issues sorted out.
That's kind of a shame, considering all the work you've put into getting your antenna issues sorted out.
drewdownkali
Member
Any idea what could be wrong inside of it that I may be able to swiftly fix? Or is it a nightmare to deal with?
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