mounting base station antenna ...on the house or out back on a tower to avoid lightning???

[niceguy71]

hello everyone.... the people here have been so helpful and so intelligent... I feel a little dumber every time I start reading stuff on this forum. but I really appreciate all the help... it is taking me a while to get everything up but I'm a slow mover and only want to do stuff once.
ok I have just about everything needed for my base station.. and I had a great plan...... I planned on putting a cement block in the ground buying four 1 1/4" threaded galvanized pipes screwing them all together with couplings. attach my Shakespeare Big Stick to it and my coax cable... paint the whole thing.... then walk the 40 feet of pipe ( 100 pounds ) up against the side of the house ... so the big stick will be 40 feet up.... I have four offset WALL HANGERS from amazon...
Amazon.com
so the weight will not be a factor... the wall hangers will mostly just keep it standing up straight. my garage roof is about 25 -28 feet tall so the pipe will extend well above the roof so if I change the antenna to a Antron 99 down the road I can put on 6 foot ground plane radials ..... I will have it grounded plus a 2nd grounding rod... and a lighting arrestor on the coax before going into the house...... I've had several lighting strikes in my yard including at 4AM this morning!!! that set off my house alarm .. power was out to the neighborhood for 6 hours).... a few years ago I had one hit a 150 foot tree split it right down the middle then jump to my fence... it followed my fence 75 to the end of the fence to with in 15 feet of the house... jumped from the fence to a sprinkler box... blew the cover off 20 feet then followed the sprinkler wires to my sprinkler zone box.... I lost my 55" TV, my sprinkler box, all the transformers ( doorbell, sprinkler, alarm) and a few other electronics..... my water well has been hit a few times to over the years..... so do I mount the mast to the side of the house? or build a tower thing out back??? I own several acers and have them all cleared now nice felids all around the house... when the lighting hits,, even 500 feet away from the house.. it always seems to do something in the house it always travels to me ( whatever I did God please forgive me already) so I'm thinking if I bury a 4X4 post 50 feet out back and burry the coax "maybe it would be better than attaching it to the house??? but the lighting is still going to travel??? it would look terrible out in the field and my land is all rock next to impossible to dig the coax underground I'm really not a fan of putting it out back.... if I attach the mast to the house... would the grounding stop it from burning my wood.. melting my Vinal siding..... I am just about ready to call it quits... never had so many road blocks! I'm just glad Mmccenna warned me about the lighting.. I never even thought about it.... ... there is a house 700 to1000 feet from me and the guy must have 6 antenna's on the roof and in the back yard... BIG TALL Antennas.... maybe I should stop over and ask him if he's been hit and how he avoids damage.
anyway sorry for the long post just thought I would get opinions... I've really been wanting a base station for 33 years! ( I had everything even the antenna just never had the time till now.... and without a base station I don't know if I even want to finish the mobile set up

 

[mmckenna]

( whatever I did God please forgive me already)

Find a new hobby.

I'm sort of serious, see below

so I'm thinking if I bury a 4X4 post 50 feet out back and burry the coax "maybe it would be better than attaching it to the house??? but the lighting is still going to travel??? it would look terrible out in the field and my land is all rock next to impossible to dig the coax underground I'm really not a fan of putting it out back.... if I attach the mast to the house... would the grounding stop it from burning my wood.. melting my Vinal siding..... I am just about ready to call it quits... never had so many road blocks! I'm just glad Mmccenna warned me about the lighting.. I never even thought about it.... ...

There's not a lot you can do if lightning decides it likes the look of your antenna. Any direct strike is going to cause a lot of issues, damage and injury.

Commercial radio sites can survive direct strikes if they are built correctly, but you'd be looking at tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars. You'd need a substantial grounding system to dissipate a direct strike, you'd need some serious protection on the electrical service entering your home. You'd need serious protection for the internet/phone lines entering your home.

And as you've discovered, even an indirect strike will do a lot of damage. Sticking a 40+ foot tall metal rod up next to your home and then giving it a nice cable as a way to find it's way into your home isn't going to end well.

This is the sort of situation where you need to consult an expert. Not an internet expert, not an amateur (or amateur radio operator), but an actual "pull out your check book and pay the man" type expert. It can get expensive to do right, and even then you'll likely have issues because of all the consumer grade electronics in your home.

there is a house 700 to1000 feet from me and the guy must have 6 antenna's on the roof and in the back yard... BIG TALL Antennas.... maybe I should stop over and ask him if he's been hit and how he avoids damage.

Worth a shot, but you need to be careful. There are plenty of people out there that confuse luck with skill. Sometimes people can be lucky and think that equals skill. It usually doesn't end well (as the internet will gladly show you). There are some that will tell you that you shouldn't ground anything at all, and lightning will avoid your home (hasn't worked out well for you, yet, has it?)

If your home has been hit several times, it probably has a lot to do with location. And unless your home has wheels under it, you're kind of stuck.

 

[prcguy]

1 1/4" Galvanized water pipe can make a great mast when used within reason like a 10ft section but as soon as you add a coupling its mechanically compromised and I would expect 20 or more feet of that in the air unguyed to fail. I would instead use a much larger diameter Sched 40 pipe like 4" OD in 21ft then the next size down that will telescope inside and stick 2ft of that inside the 4" then drill and bolt it.

It will be much easier to prime (use Rustoleum red primer) and paint than galvanized pipe because you can't paint galvanized and have it last. The paint will start sluffing off in a year or two.

For lightning, just give in to the fact that you will probably never be able to make the antenna/radio system lightning proof and disconnect the antenna when storms are approaching or when the radio is not in use. Its better to know it will not survive than to think it will. Even if you rewired your entire house, installed more ground rods and a ground ring around the house where the radio might survive, a big stick will probably evaporate if it receives a direct hit and you can never protect it.

 

[K3DHJ]

IIRC you need to bond your antenna ground to your house’s utility ground in order to be code-compliment. So, it’s better to erect the antenna in the side if the house where your electrical service is located.

 

[iMONITOR]

 

[niceguy71]

1 1/4" Galvanized water pipe can make a great mast when used within reason like a 10ft section but as soon as you add a coupling its mechanically compromised and I would expect 20 or more feet of that in the air unguyed to fail. I would instead use a much larger diameter Sched 40 pipe like 4" OD in 21ft then the next size down that will telescope inside and stick 2ft of that inside the 4" then drill and bolt it.

It will be much easier to prime (use Rustoleum red primer) and paint than galvanized pipe because you can't paint galvanized and have it last. The paint will start sluffing off in a year or two.

For lightning, just give in to the fact that you will probably never be able to make the antenna/radio system lightning proof and disconnect the antenna when storms are approaching or when the radio is not in use. Its better to know it will not survive than to think it will. Even if you rewired your entire house, installed more ground rods and a ground ring around the house where the radio might survive, a big stick will probably evaporate if it receives a direct hit and you can never protect it.

PRC Guy
lot of great info there! I never thought the paint would come off the galvi.... but I do see galvi flake after XX number of years outside so I guess your right... thank you..... I was going to go against the side of the house... sticking up 10 to 13 feet above the peak then the 18' antenna I "think" the coupling would have held it for many years.... but I am not going that way now. anyway...... but I think that mast and antenna would have been a magnet for lightning so I HATE to do it but have made up my mind I'll put a stand, out 75 feet out behind the house. I was thinking the same thing if I disconnect the coax when not in use outside I just don't see the lightning getting me... but I'm wrong more than I'm right lately...

 

[niceguy71]

IIRC you need to bond your antenna ground to your house’s utility ground in order to be code-compliment. So, it’s better to erect the antenna in the side if the house where your electrical service is located.

we just had three day's of thunder/Lightning around my house... I had never given it any thought until Mmckenna pointed out the lightning / grounding and probably saved my house... after watching the lightning hit all around me that mast is never getting anywhere near the house..... I'm going 75 feet behind a shed... I'd like to put it 300 feet out back in a field... but it would stick out like a sore thumb so I'll hide it behind the shed.... hopefully 75 feet is enough.

 

[niceguy71]

well I'm making sure my equipment still works after all these years.... going to lean a 21 foot steel pipe up against my fence with my antenna on top tomorrow.... hooked up the new power supply. found my Grant... ( 4 hour job don't ask) took the big stick out of the cardboard tube... it has a compliance certificate dated 1989.... guess I'm good then....
warming the equipment up tonight but the Cobra when I have the squelch down makes a 10 second surging noise then a pop..... ....surge....pop.... surge... pop and repeat... that old grant is purring away pretty good! tomorrow will be fun.
Happy 4th of July all.

 

[niceguy71]

well I'm making sure my equipment still works after all these years.... going to lean a 21 foot steel pipe up against my fence with my antenna on top tomorrow.... hooked up the new power supply. found my Grant... ( 4 hour job don't ask) took the big stick out of the cardboard tube... it has a compliance certificate dated 1989.... guess I'm good then....
warming the equipment up tonight but the Cobra when I have the squelch down makes a 10 second surging noise then a pop..... ....surge....pop.... surge... pop and repeat... that old grant is purring away pretty good! tomorrow will be fun.
Happy 4th of July all.

very strange..... using my back of the CB Radio Shack Antenna...... the Cobra had a little noise that built up then a little pop or click that keeps repeating..... .... I didn't notice it on the grant at first.... but I turned off the NB ANL and it does the same thing.... so I said damn new power supply so I got the old one.... SAME THING????? so I then plugged it into a different wall plug..same thing... so I watched the grant.... the S meter would go from 5 and slide up to 9 and make a click or pop and the S meter would quickly drop back to 5 and just keep repeating... I'll see what it does when I get the outside antenna hooked up.

 

[kc5uta]

Best thing that I can think of for the lightning strikes.. is give it a better target, somewhere else. Isolated with an extensive ground, and a comparable hight.. but away from “all the expensive things” that go pop when hit. It usually follows the best pathway.. but I may be wrong as well.

 

[niceguy71]

Best thing that I can think of for the lightning strikes.. is give it a better target, somewhere else. Isolated with an extensive ground, and a comparable hight.. but away from “all the expensive things” that go pop when hit. It usually follows the best pathway.. but I may be wrong as well.

I've pretty much given up on a permanent base antenna.... had my electrician out and a few more people for idea's... no place on the house to mount it.... if I put it out back 100 feet I am looking at Ditch Witching close to 500 feet to get everything right. ditch witching across my propane lines, Sprinkler lines, Sprinkler wires, night motion light wires, I have two buildings out back with underground electric wires and alarm/ smoke detector wires plus a dog fence that is only 3 inches deep....22 years ago when I moved here I did all this.... huge nightmare with my soil... it's so rocky hear I tried to get everything 12 inches deep or deeper....but I kept hitting boulders the size of Volkswagens.
so the new idea is a contraption out behind my garage.... my garage is very long made for a motorhome.. and I can lay down a 30 foot pole attached to the 18 foot Big stick....... when I want to use the CB I can just open the garage door...carry it out stand it up and run the 100 foot wire through the open garage door to the CB and screw it on..... when I'm done I do the reverse.... if I love the hobby I'll do something more permanent next year but that's the plan for now.

 

[River2112]

This is an interesting thread I found while searching for info on installing a lightening arrestor. Just wondering if you installed a permanent tower/mast and how it’s working out. I’m thinking of going with a schedule 40 pvc mast as suggested above. Due to the lighter weight of pvc and smaller GMRS and 2m antennas I’m hoping I can couple together 3 10ft sections and it would be stable enough to not need guy wires if the base is anchored well enough, but I’m not sure. Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[wjm1129]

That much PVC is like spaghetti. It will be very floppy and will need guys.

 

[niceguy71]

This is an interesting thread I found while searching for info on installing a lightening arrestor. Just wondering if you installed a permanent tower/mast and how it’s working out. I’m thinking of going with a schedule 40 pvc mast as suggested above. Due to the lighter weight of pvc and smaller GMRS and 2m antennas I’m hoping I can couple together 3 10ft sections and it would be stable enough to not need guy wires if the base is anchored well enough, but I’m not sure. Any suggestions appreciated.

hello River2112
thanks to the great guys on this forum, I did put up a permanent CB antenna.... I had a LOT to learn and it wasn't simple without any knowledge... now that I did it, I could do it again and it would be easy...
what the guys told me was.... and a great idea I may add..... poles slid inside of poles... I went to home depot... and bought three 10 foot sections of top rail fence in the fence dept.... it's a little flimsy.... I also bought two 10 feet sections of 1 1/4" EMT in the electrical dept. I put the 30 feet of top rail together they have male and female ends.... I then cut one of the 1 1/4 EMT's in half... I then slid it so the center was at the joint where the two poles connected I then drilled holes above and below the joints and bolted the two pipes together ( the inner and outer pipes ) using 1/4" stainless steel bolts 2 1/2 inches long with stainless steel lock nuts. on..... on the next joint I used the whole 10 foot section of EMT with it's center over the center of where the top rails joined together.... this gave me 31 feet of metal mast and was pretty solid.... but with the pipe over a pipe I think it has a little give for wind and is very strong.... it is also all galvanized so it won't rust and I can ground it.
I bought an Antron 99 with ground plane kit you can buy what you want for an antenna.... most people havre good luck with the A-99 so that's what I bought ( again a very smart man here told me I should get the ground plane kit ( thanks Bill)... I mounted the Antron 99 to the top and used coax seal over the connection.... I also painted the antenna, so the fiberglass won't split and crack in the sunlight...and to camouflage it.... another great idea from another true genius here... it was either PrcGuy Merlin or Slowmover... but they showed me an antenna they put in the words and camo painted it.. it was pretty hard to see!!!! I painted it with Rustoleum ... Sky Gray... Cloud White and Sky Blue.... I just did it in little sections or dots.. I'm not a good painter... but it's amazing you honestly don't notice it sticking up above my house!!!!
I bought 4 stainless steel offset house antenna brackets and lagged then to the side of my garage... you can usually do it on one end of your house.... I set the mast on a couple cement blocks so it supports the weight of the mast and it basically leans up against the house.... I would only have the mast 10 feet above the last bracket because I don't want guy wires.... guide wire??? whatever those wires are called. but I think a 18 foot antenna and 10 feet of double pipe will be plenty strong enough for any wind I may get.
the great guys here thought LMR 400 would work very well for the coax... so I bought 40 feet of it off E-bay .... but learned I had to cut it as I can't have any slack/ curves... meaning I then had to buy crimping tools lmr 400 strippers and coax ends and solder the end on to the right length.
next was the lightning arrestor and it has to be protected so it needs to be in a box.... so I found a plastic waterproof box on E-bay for $30 bucks... works good... I also learned the coax coming down from the antenna must be straight as lightning will not make curves.... I would have liked to put the coax into the bottom of the box... but lightning will not go down the coax and mast and go under the box and make a u-turn and go back up.... so I drilled a hole in the top of the box and siliconed the heck out of it.
I then grounded the lightning arrestor and the mast to a 8 foot ground rod and kept the 4 AWG ground wires as straight as possible to the ground rod... I also put the ground rod as close to the mast as I could...... the guys here also told me the mast ground has to be grounded to the house ground also... and you can't go through the house to get to it.... that was a major problem for me!
going into the house I used GR8X and it seems to work pretty good.
I will put a link for the house brackets at the bottom I got them on amazon and they work great... going to need a bull dozer to pull it off the house....

... at home depot depending how tall your house is.... my house was 21 feet to where I wanted the mast....... buy 2 sections of 1 1/4 EMT ....3 sections of top rail fence... a 8 foot ground rod... four 1/4" stainless steel bolts at 2 1/2" inches long..... buy two grounding clamps for the ground rod and two larger clamps for the mast.... two cement blocks 25 feet of #4 AWG wire for the grounds water proof electric tape to tape the coax onto the mast and GE silicone made to be UV proof...
we threw a 100 foot rope over the roof and used three guys to lift / pull the rope... then an extension ladder we installed the top house bracket before we did anything so we could just walk it onto the cement blocks and lean it into the top bracket then leveled it and kept adding more brackets....

I think that covers everything... any questions feel free to ask. I spent $1600 on everything but the radio and power supply
these work GREAT

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B4X1SDYG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

[River2112]

Thanks so much for all the info! Looks like you have a great setup. Your info and pics have helped me think of some things I hadn't thought of. When I order the lightning arrestor, I will also order a weatherproof box for it. Regarding the coax, is cutting it down to a minimum length mainly to reduce signal loss? Someone suggested making a balun loop just below the antenna with the extra cable. Not sure how much difference it would make though, and would make the small Sirio cx455 antenna much more noticeable if the loop needs to be just below the antenna. I guess the cable has to be cut anyway to insert the lightning arrestor, so buying a longer cable and cutting it to custom lengths would make sense.
It's really nice to have this forum to ask questions. When I was more into CB, decades ago, I set up antennas without some of these precautions and was lucky lightning didn't take out the whole house.

 

[niceguy71]

Thanks so much for all the info! Looks like you have a great setup. Your info and pics have helped me think of some things I hadn't thought of. When I order the lightning arrestor, I will also order a weatherproof box for it. Regarding the coax, is cutting it down to a minimum length mainly to reduce signal loss? Someone suggested making a balun loop just below the antenna with the extra cable. Not sure how much difference it would make though, and would make the small Sirio cx455 antenna much more noticeable if the loop needs to be just below the antenna. I guess the cable has to be cut anyway to insert the lightning arrestor, so buying a longer cable and cutting it to custom lengths would make sense.
It's really nice to have this forum to ask questions. When I was more into CB, decades ago, I set up antennas without some of these precautions and was lucky lightning didn't take out the whole house.

cutting the coax.... from the antenna into the waterproof box to the lightning arrestor... you can't have any curves.... lightning will go down the coax... and if the coax bends the lightning will jump off, maybe onto your house......so you want to encourage it to follow either the mast or the coax cable to the lightning arrestor... the only way to not have bends is to cut the coax and install a PL-259 so everything will be a nice straight shot.... I bought the waterproof box at E-bay link is below... I bought the lightning arrestor at DX engineering for $99.. I had to buy a coax crimper with two different jaws... that was close to $100 ..I also had to buy two different sized coax strippers at $45 each! I also bought two 6 packs of PL-259 ends... one pack for my LMR 400 and one pack for my GR8X ... I think each pack was $25 bucks.... .. I also bought a roll of rubber tape that you tape over the coax ends ...on the antenna and on both sides of the lightning arrestor..... so this is not a cheap hobby but once set up you should be good for years... good luck.

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[wtp]

and now look up drip loop.
nevermind, i did it for you,

Drip loop- Really do you need it? Wenatchee and Leavenworth Home Inspection | NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Issues when a proper drip loop is not installed. Wenatchee and Chelan Home Inspection services.

www.ncwhomeinspections.com

the water has to go somewhere.
you might be able to move the box up a little, you don't need a full circle.
no O
think J

 

[niceguy71]

and now look up drip loop.
nevermind, i did it for you,

Drip loop- Really do you need it? Wenatchee and Leavenworth Home Inspection | NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Issues when a proper drip loop is not installed. Wenatchee and Chelan Home Inspection services.

www.ncwhomeinspections.com

the water has to go somewhere.
you might be able to move the box up a little, you don't need a full circle.
no O
think J

well, thank you so much.
I know what a drip loop is...
but I was told by a very knowledgeable Ham operator, not to have any curves or bends... and I agree with him.... having a drip loop at the bottom of coax that is connected to an antenna that is 50 feet in the air ( at the tip) above a house is not a smart idea...

you should do all that's possible to discourage lightning from entering the house... if it was a telephone wire or a cable TV wire I would use a drip loop....
but I am trying to get the lightning to stay on either the coax or on the mast... and hoping it will go straight to the lightning arrestor then down the ground wire to the ground rod..... having a loop may not direct the lightning to where you're hoping it will go.
my two cents worth... maybe I'm wrong but the I believe what the knowledgeable guy told me and if I did it again would do the same thing.

 

[wtp]

and lightning does not like to follow the bend, it likes straight lines.
the drip of course is to have the water fall off and not keep trying to get in the box.
loop, don't bend !

 

[mmckenna]

but I was told by a very knowledgeable Ham operator, not to have any curves or bends.

Ham = amateur.

Some are good, some are not. Passing a 35 question multiple choice test does not bestow the "expert" status that many think. The individual (ham or otherwise) may be knowledgeable, or may not.

Drip loops are used commonly in the industry to keep water out of places it should be. Telephone, cable TV, radio systems, etc. All those have to deal with lightning.

Very often the coax jumpers that connect hardline to antennas is looped.

coax loops are sometimes used as chokes to help redirect lightning.

Sharp bends are the big issue. Sweeping bends are not as much. Even lightning rod downleads often need to have gentle sweeps in them to run down the roof and connect to the ground rod.

Yes, straight is better, but keeping water out of equipment is a good thing.

Whatever works for you is OK with us.