MSP Scanner permit

[Josh]

Nope! Basically, MSP (and other agencies) are interpreting this law to be so restrictive that you cannot legally transport a scanner home from the store that you bought it from without being a licensed HAM or having first obtained a MSP scanner permit. It doesn't matter if it is off, in the trunk...whatever. NO SCANNER IN CAR (IMO, it is really bending the definition of "equipped", but that's another story).



The letter of the law states "scanner installation". To me, this means either connecting the scanner into the car via external antenna or maybe external power source. However, having the radio in the car or in the box doesn't constitute an installation.

Back a few years ago when I was caught for having a scanner in the car, several factors came into play in our bout with the law.

A) We stumbled onto an accident scene.
B) as "first on the scene", the cops saw us with scanners when they arrived
C) We left, but connected the scanners to external antennas and power sources.
D) The cops saw us drive by and pulled us over because he had seen the scanners earlier.

What happened? We were told to put the radios in the trunk- end of story.

So, as a result I got a scanner permit and a couple years later my Amateur radio license. Furthermore, I no longer carry scanners at all, I use commercial radios, so in the event of questioning I could tell them that it isn't a scanner!

-Josh

 

[markle]

Glad I DON'T live in Michigan. We Buckeye fans and our lawmakers have more important things to worry about. Think I'll get in my car and turn on my scanner...legally.

 

[MetalManMI]

The letter of the law states "scanner installation". To me, this means either connecting the scanner into the car via external antenna or maybe external power source. However, having the radio in the car or in the box doesn't constitute an installation.

Here is the actual language of the statute:

750.508 Equipping vehicle with radio able to receive signals on frequencies assigned for police purposes; permit required; exceptions; misdemeanor; penalty; radar detectors not applicable.
Sec. 508.

(1) Any person who shall equip a vehicle with a radio receiving set that will receive signals sent on frequencies assigned by the federal communications commission of the United States of America for police purposes, or use the same in this state unless the vehicle is used or owned by a peace officer, or a bona fide amateur radio operator holding a technician class, general, advanced, or extra class amateur license issued by the federal communications commission, without first securing a permit so to do from the director of the department of state police upon application as he or she may prescribe, is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than $1,000.00, or both.

(2) This section does not apply to the use of radar detectors.


History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931 ;--Am. 1939, Act 295, Eff. Sept. 29, 1939 ;--CL 1948, 750.508 ;--Am. 1957, Act 242, Eff. Sept. 27, 1957 ;--Am. 1990, Act 77, Imd. Eff. May 24, 1990 ;--Am. 2002, Act 672, Eff. Mar. 31, 2003 .

As you can see, it says nothing about "scanner installation", rather it says "equip a vehicle". While I agree with your logic, unfortunately, as I noted before, MSP and other agencies are interpreting this to mean the act of PLACING any scanner in the vehicle, whether in the trunk, passenger compartment, or otherwise.

There was a court case, People v. Gilbert, 414 Mich. 191, 324 N.W.2d 834 (1982), where the police interpreted this law (in its previous revision) to prohibit radar detectors. This was argued in court and ultimately, the legislature amended the statute to clarify their intent (not to prohibit the use of radar detectors). The funny part is, the MSP permit says the exact opposite! It reads:

MICHIGAN STATE POLICE
PERMIT FOR USE OF SHORT WAVE RECEIVER IN VEHICLE
According to Section 750.508, MCL of 1970, as amended, this authorizes _____(name)_____ of ______(address)______ to operate a vehicle with a short wave radio receiver on radio frequencies licensed for police use, except those frequencies licensed for police radar.

**bold emphasis mine

Granted, the form that they are using is older than the revised statute, but it seems that it should be changed/updated!

:roll:

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

Ohio - a Non Dracoconian State. Thank goodness for small favours.

 

[SCfiremedic]

I am a Paramedic a volunteer Firefighter as well a liscensed Ham operator so I guess I pretty much safe anywhere I go. Or I am I wrong?

 

[KB8UYC]

As long as you have a Valid Amateur Radio License and the Permit, you are good to go.

Simple as that

 

[N_Jay]

Wow, I guess in MI you can have your headlights in the back seat not hooked up, because in the eyes of the law, "your vehicle was EQUIPPED with headlights!". :twisted:

I would guess all that is neeeded as a rich scanner fan with lots of spare time to get busted and have these laws clarified.

 

[SCfiremedic]

Permit? I just don't see any law enforcement officer giving me grief in any state about the scanner in my car . My vehicle is easily identifiable as that of a Paramedic/Firefighter as well as that of a HAM operator. As long as I'm not doing anything illegal I don't think I'll have any trouble any US state. States that regulate vehicle scanner use usally have exceptions such being a emergency personnel or a liscened HAM operator I meet both of those criteria. So if I do travel to a state where others may have to have a scanner permit I don't think I'll have to worry about buying a permit.

 

[N_Jay]

Permit? I just don't see any law enforcement officer giving me grief in any state about the scanner in my car . My vehicle is easily identifiable as that of a Paramedic/Firefighter as well as that of a HAM operator. As long as I'm not doing anything illegal I don't think I'll have any trouble any US state. States that regulate vehicle scanner use usally have exceptions such being a emergency personnel or a liscened HAM operator I meet both of those criteria. So if I do travel to a state where others may have to have a scanner permit I don't think I'll have to worry about buying a permit.

I would think that failing the "attitude test" plays a big part in some peoples problems with LEOs on this issue. :twisted:
E.G.
"Yes sir, I was on my way back from race track, I like to listen to the pit crews" vs. "Shouldn't you be catching REAL criminals?" to a question about the scanner in your car.

 

[gtor72]

finally got my permit today!

well it took long enough, but i finally got my permit today. I sent in the paperwork back in mid May.
But hey, At least I have it now.

But I do have a question, Can I expect to have the scanner taken away even if I have this permit and a copy of the law on me if I were to get pulled over with the scanner in the car?

Just curious about this, Dont want the hassle of having to try and get my $500 investment back. thanks Mike

 

[russellv2]

If you have the permit they should not be able to confiscate your radio UNLESS you were using it to commit a crime or were chasing the police or other emergency vehicles to the scene of a crime/incident. That is my understanding... correct me if I am wrong someone.

I quote from the signature part of the form:

"I agree not to use the vehicle equiped with a short wave radio receiving set in the commission of a crime or to assist anyone in doing so. I agree not to answer police calls or persue police vehicles answering radio dispatches if a permit is approved for any police frequencies."

 

[markle]

Michigan

Move to Ohio, get some Ohio State shirts and bring your scanner. You can even install one in your car and put it in plain view if you wish. The police here really don't care. Obvious scanner antennas mounted on cars do not cause Ohio law enforcement people to cringe. We don't have to carry special licenses in the car to show the cops if we get stopped.

Have the bizzare scanner laws in the "State up North" cut down the crime rates?

As stated in an earlier post, aren't there more important things to worry about up there?

 

[PanJurekMrJerry]

Re: Michigan

Move to Ohio, get some Ohio State shirts and bring your scanner. You can even install one in your car and put it in plain view if you wish. The police here really don't care. Obvious scanner antennas mounted on cars do not cause Ohio law enforcement people to cringe. We don't have to carry special licenses in the car to show the cops if we get stopped.

Have the bizzare scanner laws in the "State up North" cut down the crime rates?

As stated in an earlier post, aren't there more important things to worry about up there?

Click here: http://www.qsl.net/wa8pyr/
then click here: http://www.qsl.net/wa8pyr/scanning.htm
Then on the left side. click on LEGAL ISSUES.

There is some stuff about OHIO.

 

[russellv2]

I thought we'd covered EVERY angle of this permit, but I found a new angle of it the other day that I had to share with you folks.

This last weekend I was out with a friend in his boat on Houghton Lake. He had his scanner with him (as I also had mine.) A county sheriff went by, looking at us carefully, we were following boater laws so no problem there. He got about 10 feet off the stern and my friend's scanner came alive with traffic from somewhere. The sheriff turned his boat around, and made a stop. He asked which one of us had the scanner. When we both raised our hands he asked if we had scanner permits. (I did, my friend does not have his yet.) He didn't issue a ticket nor confiscate the scanner, but he did chew my friend out for having his boat "equipped" with a scanner.

I'm not sure if it was just a local thing or a sheriff on a "power trip" or what. It made for some interesting discussion (and a few four letter words) between he and I on the way back to his cabin.

 

[scnnr]

This last weekend I was out with a friend in his boat on Houghton Lake. He had his scanner with him (as I also had mine.) A county sheriff went by, looking at us carefully, we were following boater laws so no problem there. He got about 10 feet off the stern and my friend's scanner came alive with traffic from somewhere. The sheriff turned his boat around, and made a stop. He asked which one of us had the scanner. When we both raised our hands he asked if we had scanner permits. (I did, my friend does not have his yet.) He didn't issue a ticket nor confiscate the scanner, but he did chew my friend out for having his boat "equipped" with a scanner.

I'm not sure if it was just a local thing or a sheriff on a "power trip" or what. It made for some interesting discussion (and a few four letter words) between he and I on the way back to his cabin.

You know this is the whole problem with people and this scanner permit thing. You say, "I'm not sure if it was just a local thing or a sheriff on a "power trip" or what", well why on earth didn't you just shut off your scanners when you saw the law coming and passing by your boat. Was it power thing because you have a permit?

You both asked for hassle's by having your radios so loud that the sheriff could hear it all the way over to his boat. A little more common sense would go a long way in this hobby in regards to the way we use our radios. Not trying to make a personal attack on you Russel, just to make a point of lets all use our head a little more in regards to mobile scanning.

We have a law on the books about mobile use of scanners where I live, I have been scanning for many, many years and have never had a problem with officers due to having a scanner in the car because I make sure I turn it off if I come to a check stop or am near a situation where it may be overheard and cause me grief.

Randy

 

[russellv2]

Just want to clarify something. If you want to send me a PM with your thoughts go ahead, but DON'T start an argument in the posts.

1. The law doesn't say boats... so, although slightly nieve we didn't think of a mobile being boats. Yes they are by definition, but that didn't hit us at the time. Obviously boats are not cars.
2. He didn't think about being "sneaky" and turning it off. Partially because he forgot he had it on. No radio traffic -> no audio -> thinking about the beautiful day on the lake and the good fishing -> forgot.
3. I posted it here for public knowledge and education, not to be ridiculed. I wasn't complaining. He knew he was in the wrong and didn't fight the officer one bit, so I wouldn't call it a "power trip" from our point of view. The officer told us to turn it off and put it away. No big deal.

 

[Thunderbolt]

Re: Michigan

Move to Ohio, get some Ohio State shirts and bring your scanner. You can even install one in your car and put it in plain view if you wish. The police here really don't care. Obvious scanner antennas mounted on cars do not cause Ohio law enforcement people to cringe. We don't have to carry special licenses in the car to show the cops if we get stopped.

The city of Newark, Ohio has a local ordinance banning the use of scanners in motor vehicles, and Parma is another town that doesn't like the idea of people with scanners listening into their communications. Moreover, a friend of mine was pulled over in Parma a few years ago, and even though he was a retired police officer from Michigan, they read him the riot act on why he should not carry a scanner with him, etc. Maybe we should have a big "scanner night out" festival in Parma?


73's

Ron

 

[KB8UYC]

Listen to this though.......there is no law against having a scanner on a boat....and there is no ordinace either. So it does not matter that they had it turned up, but both of them should have had the proper creditials, and or said that both scanners belonged to the person with the license to carry them!!

and yes, police officers in michigan exspecially those of County Sheriffs do go on power trips quite often...........trust me, I've dealt with em....

Eric

 

[markle]

Scanners in Ohio

I went to the Kent Air Show last week. They had an Ohio Highway Patrol cruiser showing all the new radios, etc. as well as an airplane on display. I showed both officers the PRO 96 and how it picked up the MARCS APCO 25 System. They were amazed. They thought no one could monitor the new, digital system. They had no problem knowing people could monitor the system and were actually interested in the scanner. (They'll probably be very careful with what they say knowing people can monitor their transmissions).

As they both wanted to know more about the system, I gave them the radioreference web site which they wrote down and were going to check out. As usual, most fire/police personnel know about push to talk, and that's it. With the exception of some locals, most of Ohio has no problem with monitoring.

 

[Colin9690]

I agree markle. I always take my PRO-96 to airshows and take it in my vehicle. Once i got pulled over for speeding, the cop saw my scanner on and was interested in it too. We must have very friendly cops around here and a good law: NO PERMIT REQUIRED!!!


Colin