MURS Legality Question

[cmjonesinc]

So after reading some info on the FCC's website reference the use of MURS radios I found myself with a question or two. Here in NC (and many other places from what I read) many WAL-MART stores are using MURS channels for store communications. What I was wondering about is the use of "special" or "secret" store codes on these frequencies. Maybe some of you have noticed, but at most of the registers at WAL-MARTs there is a nice printed table of the stores "codes" example- code brown, blue, white, adam, etc.... So I guess what I'm asking is are they allowed to use these on a public channel? Lets just say if someone unknowingly using the same frequency as the local wally world was nearby and they were using "codes" as well (and possibly a tone so they could not hear the store but the store could hear them), and for example they had one called "code adam" but at the local walmart that meant a bomb threat or something serious like that. So lets say the people at the local Wal-Mart heard "code adam" and started evacuating the store and someone was to get hurt or trampled in the process, could they blame the person who unknowingly said a code on that channel? Maybe I'm the only person that ever thought of this, but I was just curious. I doubt this has ever happened, but I was just doing some scanning and thought what if. Just thought I'd get some opinions about about "secret" code use on public use channels.

 

[Zagadka]

The codes you're referring to are really for use over the PA system in the store. The few folks who have a radio may use the codes in their discussions but they are not put into effect until a manager (with a radio) says to announce it so all employees can hear it.

Further, because the community of radio users in a walmart is small - usually less and 10 - the highest probability is that anyone calling in from outside the store would be spotted as an inteloper almost immediately.

 

[WQFM513]

hahaha, interloper. iv been caught using walmarts "private" channel several times. iv been asked to leave the store, been asked to shut my radio off when i come in, been threatened with law enforcement involvement... the list goes on, never been called an interloper before though. lol. i have heard my local walmart using their codes on the murs here. at least 2 people per department and all the stock-men have murs radios here, and the rest of them are using frs. cmjonesincs thought does raise some concerns about walmart using codes on a public freq.

 

[gewecke]

hahaha, interloper. iv been caught using walmarts "private" channel several times. iv been asked to leave the store, been asked to shut my radio off when i come in, been threatened with law enforcement involvement... the list goes on, never been called an interloper before though. lol. i have heard my local walmart using their codes on the murs here. at least 2 people per department and all the stock-men have murs radios here, and the rest of them are using frs. cmjonesincs thought does raise some concerns about walmart using codes on a public freq.

I've used the standard "walmart" MURS channel too, couldn't seem to get anyone willing to come back to sporting goods...until I called them.
The sporting goods dept. Mgr. wasn't amused until I explained to him that wal mart does NOT have a blanket license to operate there because one is not needed. I used to work at wal mart several years ago, and the codes relate to missing child, fire alarm, tornado alert, bomb alert, etc.
When I left,he had plans to get his own MURS radio,lol!

73,
n9zas

 

[Zagadka]

Interloping is largely a matter of perspective. You say "iv been asked to leave the store, been asked to shut my radio off when i come in, been threatened with law enforcement involvement..." What were you saying that ticked them off? Were you "messin' ' with folks? If so, it's not surprising they asked you to leave. Isn't that exactly what the OP was talking about - someone using the channel to disrupt? And they did find you, didn't they? Could it not then be said that they found their interloper? Hmmm?:lol:

And about the "secret" code - most WalMarts have a poster right inside the front door explaining exactly what a "Code Adam" is. I guess the essence of covert is hiding in plain sight.

10 codes are a (secret if you don't know them) code used on public use channels. So are allusions and innuendo - may I not speak them on the MURS channels?

 

[gewecke]

I've used the standard "walmart" MURS channel too, couldn't seem to get anyone willing to come back to sporting goods...until I called them.
The sporting goods dept. Mgr. wasn't amused until I explained to him that wal mart does NOT have a blanket license to operate there because one is not needed. I used to work at wal mart several years ago, and the codes relate to missing child, fire alarm, tornado alert, bomb alert, etc.
When I left,he had plans to get his own MURS radio,lol!

73,
n9zas

 

[WQFM513]

naw, wasnt messin with them. the channel they use is one of the 2 channels me and some of my friends use county wide. 10 codes come up in a google search, so not really secret. do the walmart code words come up in a google search as well?

 

[WQFM513]

well, with a not so quick google search i found these.

Code ADAM - we all know, is for a missing child
Code Blue - bomb
Code Red - Fire
Code Orange - Chemical Spill
Code Black - weather warning
Code Green - Hostage Situation
Code C - Customer Service (I was right!!) Sometimes used, when
cashiers needed
Code 10 - Dry Spill
Code 20 - Wet Spill
Code 90 - Management
Code 300 - Security
Store # - Backup needed.. (all male employees and security)

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=45998

now walmarts codes are no longer a secret to anybody who reads this thread.
these codes didnt come from a walmart website, just what other people have found.
your store could use different codes.

 

[cmjonesinc]

Well thanks for the replies, it sure has shed some light on the situation. And while on the subject of ten codes, its funny that here in my county dispatchers may use plain english to dispatch almost everything but if its ever a bomb threat or school bus wreck they always use a ten code and never give any hints to what it actually is. I suppose they dont want to draw a crowd

 

[gewecke]

Yeah,these are the one's we used also. I think they're pretty much standard from bentonville, Ar.



73,
n9zas

 

[DaveNF2G]

Deliberate interference to any radio communication, licensed or not, is a violation of FCC regulations.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Radio codes are permissible as long as an FCC inspector can obtain a copy of the codes on demand.

 

[WQFM513]

Deliberate interference to any radio communication, licensed or not, is a violation of FCC regulations.

Just being in the store with the radio on is enough, they really flip out when they hear themselves on an "outsiders" radio. Nobody was deliberately interfering with walmart store operations or radio communications. I did raise hell with the manager when their parking lot attendants were using my repeaters out freq unlicensed.

 

[Skypilot007]

CBer's are using MURS around here more and more. Even some Hams using the channels for chit chat. I'm glad I don't live near a wal-mart!

 

[gewecke]

Deliberate interference to any radio communication, licensed or not, is a violation of FCC regulations.

Communicating with walmart employees is not interference. It's just communication!


73,
n9zas

 

[K9WG]

Communicating with walmart employees is not interference. It's just communication!


73,
n9zas

That is stretching the definition of 'communications' a bit... After all we are talking about Walmart employees. :lol:

 

[DaveNF2G]

Communicating without permission is still interference.

 

[kb0nly]

Communicating without permission is still interference.

In most cases i would agree... But WalMart is not due any special treatment here when they are using a license free radio service, they have to put up with interference the same as any other MURS user, thats the rules and thats all there is to it.

Its not any different than if they were using FRS...

 

[DaveNF2G]

I think the FCC would disagree, especially if Wal-Mart were to complain that the extraneous communications were interfering with their operations and that the interfering operator had been made aware of the situation. Deliberate interference, even to a Part 15 device, is still a violation.

 

[kb0nly]

I think the FCC would disagree, especially if Wal-Mart were to complain that the extraneous communications were interfering with their operations and that the interfering operator had been made aware of the situation. Deliberate interference, even to a Part 15 device, is still a violation.

True, but there has been many cases of this already in which the FCC advised the users that for BUSINESS use they need to seek out a licensed service or alternative for an otherwise license free and NON BUSINESS radio service if they need reliable and protected communications. Thats quoting the newspaper article about two years ago when the local stores started having problems due to the large sales of MURS HT's at the local Radio Shack.

They could make me or another use AWARE all they want, but they are NOT IN CHARGE nor are they the owner of the channel. They are just another user.

I know of two local stores, not Walmart, that went through this same situation. The problem was that the other users didn't even know they were interfering with the Business. Why? Different PL, etc. A business cannot expect protection on an unlicensed radio service.

There is nothing to stop me from taking MURS radios and giving them to my kids with a PL other than the one Walmart is using and putting them on the same channel and letting them play across the street and chatter on them all day.

From the FCC website regarding MURS...

Channel Use
The channels authorized to MURS systems are available on a shared basis only and will not be assigned for the exclusive use of any entity. Those using MURS transmitters must cooperate in the selection and use of channels in order to reduce interference and make the most effective use of authorized facilities. Channels must be selected in an effort to avoid interference to other MURS transmissions.

Basically it just says everyone should play nice. It says in an EFFORT TO AVOID, it doesn't say your in deep doo doo if you try to talk on a channel someone else might be using. The local Walmart here talks on their radios maybe once or twice an hour, from the perspective of anyone listening on their MURS radio the channel is not being used, and Walmart has no authority to come on the channel and claim it as theirs or chase other users off the frequency. If you follow that rule to the letter, i can get on MURS using the channel they use when they are not using it, and if they decide they need to use their radio they now have to move to a different channel to follow the rules, do they?? NO... They run a PL on their radios, the local store uses 103.5 and they talk regardless of other channel activity as well, so they are just as much in the wrong as anyone else as they are no more than a USER as well.

This is why the local stores that fought this battle moved to a licensed frequency in a different band, one is up in the 900Mhz range now.