Nashville Fire Encryption

[Remington12G]

nteroperability!

Do they have a plan for how they will disseminate information to the public? Social media is great in theory, but not everyone is computer literate in addition the information needs to filter down even more. I suppose if they are 30% of the way updated they will have some time to ponder those questions, but answers might come after the fact.

I wish they would do something similar to Lexington Metro Fire. When they moved to P25 and switched to AES they made a status board and allows all fire calls to be posted. The only thing shown is Run Number, Enroute and Arrival Time, Units Assigned, Ops Channel, Call Type, and general address.

 

[KN4EHX]

According to RR Davidson County EMA is all clear. I’d think if EMA needs to be involved it is much juicer than someone’s burnt chicken.

Surely Davidson EMA was called to the Christmas bombing incident at AT&T as well as TEMA who is also all clear on TACN.

The ideal of a status board is better than being completely left in the dark. If the situation gets that interesting I’d probably just make a phone call. The ability to encrypt should be there but in general I think it is best to be in the clear. I myself work in EMA; we rarely use radios, but when we do it is in the clear.

 

[jpryor]

A local friend of mine who is a scanner listener, also happens to be a columnist with USA Today/Tennessean. He choose to further cover this topic in an opinion column. This article is online and in today's Tennessean Sunday print edition. Online folks need to be subscribers for the full article...

Nashville area public agencies dial back scanner traffic in blow to hobbyists | Opinion
The scanner-listening community has been shrinking for decades as the technology has grown more complicated and expensive.
Alex Hubbard
Nashville Tennessean
Online Link: Get Access

He provides some personal background, more detail for NFD moving to encryption, commentary on the hobby becoming more complicated and expensive, and a call for comprise to keep some channels open to the public.

There is also a citation with a Lindsay Blanton quote from this pervious article:

Encrypted Police Scanners Are Raising Big Questions | Built In

Encrypted police scanners are gaining attention recently. Protests and unrest prompted a dramatic spike in downloads of police-radio apps, just as some agencies have pushed to strip public access via encrypted police scanners.

builtin.com

“The argument that broadcasting the day-to-day of dispatch operations endangers officers is ridiculous, frankly,” Lindsay Blanton, founder of scanner streaming site Broadcastify, told the tech website Built In last year, pointing out that many streams are delayed by minutes. “Nobody’s getting a real tactical advantage over the police by listening to their day-to-day operations, so we categorically reject that assertion.”

I've had the pleasure to help work with Alex on scanner software and programming tweaks over the recent years that I've been in Nashville. As he mentions in the article, Alex was born blind. Some of the scanner software and user interfaces have presented challenges, fortunately most we've been able to work through. He also notes that he holds an Amateur Extra ham license.

Folks that want to further the general encryption debate, take to an appropriate thread. We can keep this thread open for facts and details on the latest status on this Nashville Fire encryption transition. I'll check further on UniTrunker affiliation data every couple weeks or so to see how this progresses. Our first real sign of the end will be when either clear channels start showing up less often or are dropped altogether.

 

[KN4EHX]

Jpryor,

I believe your friend is doing excellent work and it is a great start in giving a little encouragement to Davidson County to keep their citizens informed. Although I live in East Tennessee and am far away from the hustle and bustle of the capital I can certainly appreciate your diligence in keeping the database updated. Best wishes in your endeavors.

Again I extend a thank you to both you and Alex!

 

[WX4JCW]

They are simulcasting on all the new ones today

 

[Remington12G]

Looks like the switch is getting closer

 

[Shepawood]

The switch is currently underway now as we speak. 🤷🏽‍♂️

 

[jpryor]

Well underway. Patches been up past couple months. As of yesterday about 80% of active radios on Nashville Fire channels now encrypted. Expecting within days/weeks that clear channels could get dropped from full time patches and only active as needed. Most of the radios left to convert are non-Metro Nashville fire radios, IE Goodlettsville Fire, Metro ECC, Metro OEM, TDOT still seeing on the clear channels. Quick weekly burn down/burn up chart from Unitrunker data by clear versus encrypted radio percentages, moving around 10-15% a week. This last remaining batch and various stragglers may take a bit longer to clean up...

 

[zachgallop]

Fox17 News Article: DIGGING OUT: Nashville Fire Department encrypting radio transmissions

 

[TNDispatcher]

what a bunch of **** !

 

[GlobalNorth]

No FD should be fully encrypted. A tac channel or several for interoperability with LE, sure, but not for Alarm, area channels, firegrounds, etc.

The people of Nashville need to rise up and tell their local politicians, the city management, and the FD Chief that their jobs are gone if this is not rescinded.

 

[KN4EHX]

As we all know putting out a grease fire at your favorite fast food joint is a very sensitive subject and it is for your safety and the safety of the firefighters, officers, and paramedics responding to that situation that we have decided all communications must be encrypted. Encryption is also paramount for good interoperability. If ever a need to call for TEMA or anyone else that will require use of an interoperability talk group on P25 they should also need to encrypt because that would be the safe thing to do.

Y’all can’t just be out there listening to what your tax dollars are paying for! You’re going to need a top secret clearance first and don’t go programming no trunking systems in your scanners now; es ist verboten!

Burnt chicken incidents will decrease and first responders safety will also increase. Why would you need to know about the collapsed bridge?

A poll consisting of three dudes who know nothing about radio voted for encryption. Therefore this was a democratic decision and the people should be happy they were fairly represented.

Grow up people!

Censorely,
The lawyer guy who decided to go dark

(Sarcasm)

 

[buddrousa]

This is not going to be popular but here goes.
I do not blame them after all the NEWS Monday Quarterback drug them over the coals for the Nashville Bombing.

 

[n6hgg]

No plans will change until people die and it becomes too expensive to pay for the untimely death lawsuits. If that cost remains lower than keeping encryption active, then encryption will prevail. Encryption will go away as soon as paying for dead bodies gets too expensive. That's how many thing are risk managed. Bodies versus dollars. Some ambulance chasers will come up for reasons that encrypted audio caused someone to die in any number of incidents resulting in death. "We couldn't act to prevent this death because the public safety radio traffic was encrypted". It's called "blood response" and that is why those who decide these things only change the rules and the way things are done after the bodies are counted and the dollar amounts are assessed.

Unrelated to legal challenges, one time I nailed a fatal hit and run driver who was drunk by spotting the suspect and following him while talking to police dispatch after hearing the call go out. I was that extra set of eyes. The cops came to our location and arrested the guy, and he was later convicted. Encryption removes the helpful extra sets of eyes.

It will prevail if the dollars versus bodies ratio remains favorable to the public safety authorities.

 

[buddrousa]

With states passing laws to not jail criminals do you think it matters?
I think we need more jails and HARD LABOR back then we did not have many that wanted to go to jail. Now staying in jail is like staying in a high class Motel with ROOM SERVICE.

 

[TNDispatcher]

Im still picking them up on my G5 also Broadcastify

 

[RadioJonD]

As a once semi-regular visitor, I now avoid Nashville for the most part, especially Downtown, since all this encryption business. I figured local authorities had/have something to hide, probably escalating crime. Christmas Day 2020 pretty much drove home the point in my way of thinking. Now that fire is/will be taken away, all the more proof.

Encryption advocates have yet to provide any statistics, of which I am aware, correlating public monitoring and officer safety. The way they act, one would think that every wound or death inflicted upon a public servant is by someone listening to radio traffic. The puzzling point for me is that most law enforcement agencies favor armed law abiding citizens and then some of those agencies want to block those same citizens from listening. Encrypt the sensitive stuff. Leave traffic and dispatch open!

Alienating the public will only make things worse for LE. Look up the basic reasoning for the Community Policing movement from years ago that continues today.. Same difference.

n6hgg, you hit the nail on the head about extra eyes!

During my years being monitored, we received many tips from listeners that lead to arrests or offered other assistance,. Not once do I remember anyone getting hurt (or worse) by someone with a scanner. In fact, I can only recall one or two arrests where a subject was in possession of a scanner. The handheld scanner was brought to me and from what I determined someone had used "Police Call" to load up a bank or two with inputs and all. Plus, our agency wasn't even programmed. Whoever was listening wasn't very savvy in programming nor monitoring to make any difference. Now, think how much more difficult that process is these days.

 

[KN4EHX]

The news story said that even off duty first responders wouldn’t be able to listen. Do they plan to make them turn in their radios at the end of each shift or is someone going to stun the radios at the end of shift? Geofencing? Seems a little over the top. I understand encrypting patient information, SSNs, and VICE operations, but general calls should be clear. Emergency Management is there for the worst and they across the board tend to be in the clear. If I ever have to pass anything too juicy I find the recipient and tell them myself or I call them.

I’d much rather have extra sets of eyes looking out for my wellbeing. Guess I’m funny like that. Big E does a lot to turn departments into islands.

 

[Giddyuptd]

The news story said that even off duty first responders wouldn’t be able to listen. Do they plan to make them turn in their radios at the end of each shift or is someone going to stun the radios at the end of shift? Geofencing? Seems a little over the top. I understand encrypting patient information, SSNs, and VICE operations, but general calls should be clear. Emergency Management is there for the worst and they across the board tend to be in the clear. If I ever have to pass anything too juicy I find the recipient and tell them myself or I call them.

I’d much rather have extra sets of eyes looking out for my wellbeing. Guess I’m funny like that. Big E does a lot to turn departments into islands.

This caught my eye as well. The other entity I work for has aes a bit and users take their portables home which are assigned to them with signing life away knowing you lose it you're gonna face costs and maybe your job to fix the issue meaning making the other radios secured in costs.

Only way this would make sense is if ALL users turned their radios in end of shift meaning their was enough on and select on calls on stand by that are off. I recall way back large depts doing this when portables were first used as a normal over just the mobiles but as a modern method isn't plausible in terms of interop and disaster prevention.

I recall once a agency did this storing all their portables in a briefing room on racks. All went on calls and someone walked in and out with the entire portable shelf units.

I would imagine it is either media misunderstood lingo of personal equipment will no longer work but not said by the agency is off duties would have their assigned portable.

If they don't trust their current staff on pd and fd end then I would say there isns bigger issue then securing airwaves or them employees need to consider better municipality to work with.

It would be redundant to require the city end to turn it in while county end guys got to take theirs home.

 

[Giddyuptd]

As a once semi-regular visitor, I now avoid Nashville for the most part, especially Downtown, since all this encryption business. I figured local authorities had/have something to hide, probably escalating crime. Christmas Day 2020 pretty much drove home the point in my way of thinking. Now that fire is/will be taken away, all the more proof.

Encryption advocates have yet to provide any statistics, of which I am aware, correlating public monitoring and officer safety. The way they act, one would think that every wound or death inflicted upon a public servant is by someone listening to radio traffic. The puzzling point for me is that most law enforcement agencies favor armed law abiding citizens and then some of those agencies want to block those same citizens from listening. Encrypt the sensitive stuff. Leave traffic and dispatch open!

Alienating the public will only make things worse for LE. Look up the basic reasoning for the Community Policing movement from years ago that continues today.. Same difference.

n6hgg, you hit the nail on the head about extra eyes!

During my years being monitored, we received many tips from listeners that lead to arrests or offered other assistance,. Not once do I remember anyone getting hurt (or worse) by someone with a scanner. In fact, I can only recall one or two arrests where a subject was in possession of a scanner. The handheld scanner was brought to me and from what I determined someone had used "Police Call" to load up a bank or two with inputs and all. Plus, our agency wasn't even programmed. Whoever was listening wasn't very savvy in programming nor monitoring to make any difference. Now, think how much more difficult that process is these days.

During most the rioting there was numerous mobiles and portables stolen from agencies many not recovered or not found when sniffed for on a system. They open the door in sense to them groups taking drastic measures and fail to realize these organizations are not just compiled of common jobless joe but former xyz with knowledge and ability. We had discussed this in a meeting regarding things and how encryption hampered a few inter agency mutual aides before.